Ablative bottom paint

[All U Get]

Will ablative paint become less effective when hauled out for the winter? I painted over the black bottom with red ablative for salt-water sailing and there is still plenty of red left after power-washing. Will the paint dry out over the winter and become less effective for the next season? I was thinking of skipping a season after reading the archive posting of a few years ago. Any thoughts would be appreciated, the boat is in Maine.
All U Get

 

[sailingdog]

No, most ablative paints are not affected significantly by extended drying periods. This is one reason they are traditionally used on trailerable boats. As soon as the boat is re-launched and the paint starts to wear, a fresh layer of biocide is exposed and the paint is pretty much as effective as if the boat hadn't been hauled. Most hard epoxy paints will have a problem, as the extended drying periods will deactivate the biocide in most of them.

 

[Hermit Scott]

paint

On the can of Interlux csc (ablative) I applied a few days ago, it claims that you can haul and relaunch with out repainting. Unfortunately 99% of what I know about sailboats is from reading. I can't wait to add some real life to it.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Most of the boats you see hauled over the winter have ablative on their bottom's specifically because it can be reused. That's not the whole story though.

If you intend to leave the boat in the water next season, it would be prudent to either put on another coat, preferably with a different color so you'll see how much is actually remaining next year, or at a minimum touch up four areas, the waterline, the leading edges of the hull, keel and rudder with the same color as these areas wear much faster for obvious reasons.

The actual longevity of the paint is a function of how much you use the boat, i.e., how much wear occurs.

 

[Maine Sail]

Make sure..

Just make sure it's a "multi-season" ablative. Some are not.. It should say safe to haul and re-launch..

 

[All U Get]

Thanks for the insight, I plan to do some touch-up and read the can.
All U Get

 

[Maine Sail]

Soem good multi-season

When looking for a paint that you can haul and re-launch with for true multi-season efficacy you ant whats called a "copolymer ablative". Some good copolymer ablatives paints to consider are:

Pettit Ultima SR (LINK) = Specifically states: "Relaunch without Repainting"

Micron CSC = Specifically States: "ability to haul and re-launch without repainting"

Micron Extra = Specifically States: "ability to haul and re-launch without repainting"

Micron 66 = Specifically States: "ability to haul and re-launch without repainting"

West Marine PCA Gold = Basically the same paint as Pettit Ultima SR (it's made by Pettit) for less money. It is a copolymer and can also be hauled and re-launched with no loss of efficacy...

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

With all this discussion on ablatives, does anyone have any reference to empirical data demonstrating the effiicacy of so-called "multi-season" ablatives compared with any generic ablative paint? My question relates specifically to how well ablatives which are NOT advertized as "multi-season" perform over multiple seasons.


One of my yard manager's favorite quotes is ""bottom paint lasts as long as you leave it" which is obviously a cynical exaggeration, however, I suspect there may be more truth in it than he realizes. Advertizing paint as "multi-season", without any evidence to support it or no requirement that evidence even exists make me wonder as I've used so-called single season ablative over two years with no apparent difference.

 

[Maine Sail]

Don.

Many singe season rated paints will actually last longer than a single season provided you don't haul out. There are also multi-season rated paints that are not haul & re-launch rated that will become ineffective the longer they sit out of the water.. It gets confusing!

PS just published another paint update in the most recent October 2008 issue..

Here are some high lights"

From PS October 2008

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Micron 66 from Interlux has become a perennial favorite in our testing. It again is our Best Choice after one year, based on two Excellent ratings in Florida and two Good ratings in Connecticut. Micron 66 is a self-polishing bottom paint that provides a controlled release of copper antifouling over a long period of time. Our tests—both static panel tests and field tests (see pages 18-19)—are proof this paint works as well as or better than anything on the market today. It’ll cost you though: It sells for a very pricey $220 a gallon.[/FONT][/FONT]"

The PS test rated Pettit Ultima SR and West Marine PCA a "recommended buy" as well as Micron 66. Micron Extra and Micron CSC did not get the "recommended" rating but they too are haul re-launch capable.

My one complaint is that the PS tests never mention anything about the haul-re-launch capabilities. I wish they wold add a separate column for haul & re-launch capabilities but they don't. Unfortunately a multi-season rating, in and of its self, does not make a paint haul & re-launch capable and you usually need to read the manufacturers literature to find out if it's possible.

Having done a fair number of "bottom jobs", and I hate them, I now only use ablatives that specifically state haul & re-launch capabilities. Over the years I've used Micron CSC Extra (now called Micron Extra), Micron CSC, Pettit Ultima SR and for the last two seasons I've been using West Marine PCA Gold. All except the Micron CSC have worked great. The West Marine PCA Gold usually goes on sale for $159.00 per gallon and works as well as the Pettit Ultima SR did for me..

Unfortunately the PO of my boat used a hard paint as a base coat then a copolymer ablative. I can't for the life of me figure out why people do this. She is now beginning to flake the base layer, this is what happens to modified epoxies over time, and will need a bottom job in the next year or two. When I do it, I will hot coat a copolymer ablative over the barrier coat for a bullet proof bond and hopefully no flaking..

I hot coated my old Catalina 30 and even after six years of using a copolymer ablatives she still looked great and had no signs of flaking. I was using Micron CSC Extra at the time and the guy I sold her to continued on with the same paint.

Do your best to read the labels to be certain it is haul & re-launch capable as not all multi-seasons are. It's also a good idea to do you base coat in a contrasting color to the finish color. This way as the paint gets thin in areas you justt touch up those areas. Usually the leading edge of the bow and keel need it as well as the rudder..

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Many singe season rated paints will actually last longer than a single season provided you don't haul out. There are also multi-season rated paints that are not haul & re-launch rated that will become ineffective the longer they sit out of the water.. It gets confusing!

PS just published another paint update in the most recent October 2008 issue..

Like my yard manager said... it lasts as long as you leave it on. Typically, most ablatives can survive being dried for a prolonged period. Haven't read the PS review thoroughly but I scaned it a few days ago looking for more than their usual declarative statements and didn't see any real data to support any conclusions about longevity.

 

[Maine Sail]

Like my yard manager said... it lasts as long as you leave it on. Typically, most ablatives can survive being dried for a prolonged period. Haven't read the PS review thoroughly but I scaned it a few days ago looking for more than their usual declarative statements and didn't see any real data to support any conclusions about longevity.

I had a situation that did not back that up at all. When I bought my Mainship power boat she had been painted, I was told, with a multi-season ablative. I never asked if it was a copolymer and I just assumed it was.

Seeing as it had just been painted a month before she came out for the winter and not really used I relaunched in the spring without painting.. Well $360.00 later, for a short haul & block, in the middle of July I was repainting what apparently was not a haul & relaunch rated paint.. Not all paints are capable of being hauled and re-launched. Perhaps some are but I'm not a gambler. The long and short is that it cost me $360.00 extra dollars to learn this. The paint was a soft ablative but clearly totally inefective after sitting on the hard all winter.

I don't know of any tests that looked specifically at non haul & relaunch rated paints to see if the do in fact work after a haul. I guess you can be our guinea pig..

I never did find out which ablative he used but it was not a hard one. It was very soft and I scrubbed it twice before hauling and even after scrubbing it was still totally ineffective. The growth was so rapid it was as if I had no bottom paint at all. I over coated the black with red Ultima SR and every time black showed through it grew stuff on the black areas.. An n of 1 does not make scientific data but I don't know that I'd experiment in this manner again. A phone call to the manufacturer is probably cheaper if you know what the paint is all i know was it was a soft ablative.

Spring launch day April 28, 2004. You can see that I did not paint if you look close at the waterline area you'll see that tell tale discoloration.

July 14 2004 short haul to re-paint:

 

[BobM]

Ablative

I have been using Pettit Hydrocoat (~$100/gallon) for the last four years. I typically single coat every year hitting the water line and the leading edge of the keel and rudder a second time. It has worked well, however, on my last boat I noted that it tended to build up pretty fast and there was chipping each year, but that was likely due to the unknown paint I painted over as it always chipped down to the barrier coat. As I recall, this paint is a mult-season pain, plus it is aqueous based for easy clean up. My new boat has a pretty good layer of ablative already. The surveyor actually suggested skipping bottom painting a few years to let it wear down. I don't know how practical that advice is, but I plan to give it a shot. Otherwise I will have to strip it. So, next season I will just paint the water line and leading edges, period, and see how things go. How well bottom paints work out will depend on your area and how much you use the boat as well.

 

[Warren Milberg]

The answer, IMHO that is, to the question of whether ablative paints can last mutli-seasons if the boat is hauled for a period of time is: yes and no. Depends on the ablative used and how much is applied -- and how much remains when the boat is hauled. CSC seems to be a true "multi-season" ablative if used as directed (i.e., 3 coats). Interlux ACT and similar ablatives seem to be single season paints that will lose some effectiveness if the boat is out of the water for 60 or more days. Yet I have seen a friend of mine use a so-called single season ablative (much cheaper than the highly rated multi-season ablatives) as follows: applies two coats (his 27 footer only needs 1 gal to do this). He, like me, hauls his boat each December and relaunches around the first of April. While I am applying my typical one thin single coat of inexpensive single season ablative in the spring, he merely powerwashes his boat to ablate the old paint and bring up new paint. It seems to work for him.

 

[Maine Sail]

Called Interlux..

I called Interlux because I had some questions about Micron 66 which I may switch to.

Here is their answer:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Unless the ablative paint is a copolymer ablative yes they do stop working. The one exception, at least in the Interlux line, is Micron 66 which is not technically a copolymer yet it can be re-activated by washing it and lightly rubbing it with a Scotchbrite pad before launch. You can actually avoid this step and re-activate 66 by actually sailing it a good deal before sticking or on the dock or mooring. One of the cool things about 66 is that it ablates in salt water without having to actually run the boat. This is a big benefit for the dockside/condo boat crowd..?

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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Non copolymer ablatives, at least with the Interlux line up, have a max out of water time of 60 days just as Warren stated. It is important to note that at 60 days on the hard it has lost considerable efficacy, more binders have dried, when compared to 10 days out of the water, less dry binders.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Non copolymer ablative paints will in a sense "dry out". This means the active binders, that create the "ablative" properties of the paint, if left out of the water long enough, stop working. Storing the boat out of the water prevents the paints from leeching copper and stops the ablative characteristics of the product if left out long enough. [/FONT]
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[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Copolymers and Micron 66, are currently the only ablative paints from Interlux that can be hauled and re-launched with no loss of efficacy. This is straight from Interlux tech support and applies only to their brand. I would guess the Pettit products react similarly.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I still don't understand why PS or any other articles never mention or add a column for us Northerners that deals wth haul & re-launch. So, if you're out less than 60 days, a non copolymer can still work but it will have lost efficacy. beyond 60 and your really gambling.
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]My power boat was out for 5 1/2 months and the Ablative was dead. Even running her at 16+ knots did not re-activate it..
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[Don S/V ILLusion]

Thanks for relaying their take on this. Being the skeptic I am, I can't help but think this could be, at least in part, marketing to sell more product given that my experience only bottom painting every other year with the cheapest ablative I can find and I can't perceive any difference between how the paint performs in year 1 or 2.
If you don't mind, pass along the person to whom you spoke as I'd like to follow up to better understand the chemistry. If you'd perfer to not do it here, please pm me.
thanks