A Disagreement That You Can Clarify

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R

Rusty

My name is Rusty. I have been in an argument with my friend over the origin of the phrase, "Three Sheets to the wind." We are both very stubborn and will not concede any ground. He insists that he is right since he knows about sailing and that I have no clue what I am talking about. The only problem is that every single source I look to mentions nothing about his explanation. So, please, tell me which explanation is the correct one. In the interest of fairness, I will not indicate which explanation is mine and which is his.


#1
"Three sheets to the wind" is a reference to a sailor being so drunk that he ties three sheets onto a two sheet sail. The sail only requires two sheets, ropes, but the sailor is so drunk that he ends up putting another one on and thus he is three sheets to the wind drunk.

#2
"Three sheets to the wind' is a reference to a sailor or person being so drunk that they are rocking back and forth with their clothes flapping in the wind mimicking the way a sailboat would be rocking back and forth if its sheets had come undone and it was rolling in the sea with its ropes flapping completely uncontrolled.


Thank you for your time.
 
Phil Herring

Phil Herring

Alien
Mar 25, 1997
4,922
- - Bainbridge Island
Shoot, I always thought the reference was to a sailor so drunk he didn't cleat his sheets properly, thus three sheets (2 headsail, 1 mainsail) to the wind.
 
T

TheWindatMyBack

I will say that I have never even heard of the first explanation. Everything I have ever encountered or heard of is along the lines of the second explanation. I don't know if that helps or hurts you.
 
elle

elle

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Sep 13, 1996
112
Rhodes 22 Northern Neck of Virginia
Three Sheets to the Wind

Here ye go, maties:

Drink up, me hearties, yo ho! The sailing life gave us the intoxicating phrase "three sheets to the wind," although "three sheets in the wind" came first.

Among nautical folks, a "sheet" refers to the rope used to secure a ship's sail. On the square-rigged ships of yore, three sheets were needed to tie up the sails. So, if all three of the ship's sheets were loose in the wind, the sail would flop about and the ship would go off course -- rather like a drunken sailor staggering around on shore.

"Three sheets in the wind" was first recorded in 1821 by Pierce Egan in his work "Real Life in London." In those days, sailors had a rating system for their inebriation. "One sheet" was merely tipsy, and it went up to "four sheets," meaning unconscious. Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum, indeed.
 
SirWm

SirWm

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Sep 27, 2008
25
Macgregor 26S Evansville, IN
It may not be nautical ?

From "Some Nautical Origins of Common Words and Phrases" by Vance Broad http://users.aol.com/sailgower/lexicon.html

At sea a sheet is a rope which controls a sail. On a Bermuda rigged vessel (two sails in-line fore and aft) (a small dinghy type vessel easily sailed single-handed by almost any sailor when going ashore or returning to the mother ship) there are three sheets (two for the jib/foresail and one for the main sail). If a such a yacht is three sheets to the wind (possibly because the returning sailor is a bit drunk) then the sails are flogging and are not drawing wind so that the boat will not make headway (forward progress) but will drift downwind. Sheets might have been let fly to thrash out of control beneath the flogging sails. On land,windmills have four sails. The sails are covered with sheets of fabric. The windmill turns at full speed with four 'sheets' (sails) exposed to the wind but will work more efficiently in brisk winds with only two 'sheets'. If you put up three sheets to the wind the windmill will be unstable, wobbling on its axis like a drunken sailor.
 
M

Mike8245

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Jul 12, 2006
85
- - nc
three sheets to the wind

I'm with Elle, that is the explaination I have heard and believe. Great topic. Anyone know where "the whole nine yards" came from? I have wondered where it could have come from and come up empty handed. Mike
 
Don12364

Don12364

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Dec 2, 2003
1,637
Hunter 376 Warsash, England --
Re: three sheets to the wind

Google it, you'll have hours of interesting reading! I did and its "Three sheets in the wind" really. On a scale of 1 to 3.
 
Ctskip

Ctskip

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Sep 21, 2005
732
other 12 wet water
Re: three sheets to the wind

The whole nine yards has to do with the cement truck carrying nine yards total and thereby taking the whole nine yards.

Keep it up,
Ctskip
 
Ross

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Ctskip said:
The whole nine yards has to do with the cement truck carrying nine yards total and thereby taking the whole nine yards.

Keep it up,
Ctskip
Click to expand
There was a long discussion on this topic on the woodenboat forum and there is about a dozen logical explanations for the origin if any of them are logical
 
Tommy T

Tommy T

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Apr 1, 2007
80
Hunter 34 Nashville TN
Re: three sheets to the wind

In WWII the machine gun belts were 9 yards long. So if you shot up everything you used the whole 9 yards.
 
M

Mike Davis

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Jun 15, 2004
78
- - Edmond, OK
Got to agree with tommyt

Whole 9 yards originally refers to the length of a WWII fighter machine gun belt, which I think might predate ctskip's cement truck explanation.

I don't know the origin of the "sheets" classification of inebriation, but I know that Pusser's has made excellent use of it.:D
 
higgs

higgs

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Aug 24, 2005
3,708
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
Clarification

Not to be misunderstood - my loose cannon comment was meant in jest as "loose cannon" is a term from sailing lore.
 
48dodge

48dodge

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Oct 10, 2006
492
Oday 222 Mt. Pleasant, SC
I feel it coming!

I know someone is about to explain the "brass monkey" saying. I just feel it in the air.
 
Randyonr3

Randyonr3

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Jan 22, 2008
32
Beneteau FIRST 42 Coos Bay, Oregon
The "brass Monkey" is an easy one, as - its cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey.........
The monkey is the plate used to hold the cannon balls which has 3 indents in it so the balls wont roll out. Its made of brass so the iron balls wont rust to the plate.. in cold lattitudes, the brass plate would shring and the balls would roll or fall off the brass monkey.
 
R

Rusty

While I thank you for the overwhelming response, is there any chance that I could steer this discussion back in the direction of the original question posed? I really need you guys to weigh in on the subject, so please tell me what you think of the explanations given.
 
48dodge

48dodge

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Oct 10, 2006
492
Oday 222 Mt. Pleasant, SC
Randyonr3 said:
The "brass Monkey" is an easy one, as - its cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey.........
The monkey is the plate used to hold the cannon balls which has 3 indents in it so the balls wont roll out. Its made of brass so the iron balls wont rust to the plate.. in cold lattitudes, the brass plate would shring and the balls would roll or fall off the brass monkey.
Click to expand
Yup, that's the one. Although it's false.
http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/brass.asp
 
Ctskip

Ctskip

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Sep 21, 2005
732
other 12 wet water
I would say they both have their merits, number one is about 25% correct, while number two is 70% correct. Is that what you are looking for ? a vote?
Keep it up,
Ctskip
 
Bill Roosa

Bill Roosa

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Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
#2

I've never even heard of #1
Course this may land me "between the devil and the deep blue sea" but I'm currently "full and by" so I don't care much!!;)
 
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