I have a two year old 450, hull#176, and I have just recently noticed a 'problem' that has probably gone undetected from day one. I have a 4.5KW Westerbeke genset, along with the standard 2000Watt inverter/charger. The problem is this; whenever the waterheater is on the AC ammeter reads about 10 amps, normal. Whenever the 110 volt refer is turned on,(water heater off), there is the normal 'surge' current as the compressor comes on line and then it settles back to about 8 to 10 amps, again normal. Problem arises when both units are turned on. If you turn the water heater on after the refer has settled into a 'running' mode the ammeter indication 'folds back' to an indication of about 5 amps? I would think that the indication should be about 18 amps. Both the water heater and the refer appear to continue working normally (i think). However, I turn one or the other off because I do not understand what is happening here and don't want to damage something in the process. This happens either on shore power or on the genset AC source. Does anyone know what's going on here? Could the inverter interface have a part in this? Is something 'broken' or is this normal? Anybody else with a 450 noticed this 'problem'?
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Bradley Cavedo
Coincidence?
It could be the coincidence of the hot water tank being hot when you have noticed this. If its hot, the heating element will not come on even though you turned the switch on. Engine running will heat the water. If its not that, I don't know what it is. We have the P42 and my hot water is 10 amps. And it always adds on top of whatever other AC amps use is already showing, unless the tank is already hot.
It could be the coincidence of the hot water tank being hot when you have noticed this. If its hot, the heating element will not come on even though you turned the switch on. Engine running will heat the water. If its not that, I don't know what it is. We have the P42 and my hot water is 10 amps. And it always adds on top of whatever other AC amps use is already showing, unless the tank is already hot.
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George Fletcher
Not Coincidental
I have checked the situation when I am certain the water heater element is on. I am now wondering if the "problem" is related to "pwer factor" issues. The refer is a highly inductive load where voltage and current are out of phase. Adding the purely resistive load of the water heater may change the "power factor" of the entire AC load and give me this wacky reading.
I have checked the situation when I am certain the water heater element is on. I am now wondering if the "problem" is related to "pwer factor" issues. The refer is a highly inductive load where voltage and current are out of phase. Adding the purely resistive load of the water heater may change the "power factor" of the entire AC load and give me this wacky reading.
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Al Budding
A guess
I have a heart freedom 20 inverter on my Passage 42. It has load sharing capability adjustable via the remote pannel. Current being supplied from the inverter is not readable on the ship's ac amp gage. It is readable on the remote pannel. It could be, the inverter is picking up a portion of the ac load. Again, just a guess. A.B.
I have a heart freedom 20 inverter on my Passage 42. It has load sharing capability adjustable via the remote pannel. Current being supplied from the inverter is not readable on the ship's ac amp gage. It is readable on the remote pannel. It could be, the inverter is picking up a portion of the ac load. Again, just a guess. A.B.
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George Fletcher
Thanks Bud, I will give something a try.
Thanks for the tip on the load sharing, my original thought were toward the inverter. I am going to try to turn the inverter off and see what I get with the shorepower source only. Thanks again Bud!
Thanks for the tip on the load sharing, my original thought were toward the inverter. I am going to try to turn the inverter off and see what I get with the shorepower source only. Thanks again Bud!
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Gordon Myers
George - I have notice the same thing.
We have a P450 hull # 233. It is equipped with a 8 KW Gen. and a Freedom 25. I however don't think either have anything to do with this question. I too when on shore power (no gen. or inverter - only the charging side of the Freedom 25) have notice about 10 amps with either the Ref. or Hot Water. But when combined the amps do not go up, yet both seem to be working. I have no explanation. I m interested in what you find out.
We have a P450 hull # 233. It is equipped with a 8 KW Gen. and a Freedom 25. I however don't think either have anything to do with this question. I too when on shore power (no gen. or inverter - only the charging side of the Freedom 25) have notice about 10 amps with either the Ref. or Hot Water. But when combined the amps do not go up, yet both seem to be working. I have no explanation. I m interested in what you find out.
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George Fletcher
"Cold Fusion!"
Gordon, after I play around isolation the AC sources I will let you know the results. In the meantime, perhaps we have found the secret to "Cold Fusion". Amazing, the more appliances you use the less power you need! WOW!
Gordon, after I play around isolation the AC sources I will let you know the results. In the meantime, perhaps we have found the secret to "Cold Fusion". Amazing, the more appliances you use the less power you need! WOW!
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Bob Bass
Not Noticed Here
My water heater is on the A panel and the A/C is on the B panel and I do read the load properly when the loads are applied. Are both these loads on one panel? I don't think that the inverter would try to pick up any load when you are on shore power. I always have my inverter off at the dock so that in the event that the shore power is interrupted the load would not shift over to the batteries and run them down.
My water heater is on the A panel and the A/C is on the B panel and I do read the load properly when the loads are applied. Are both these loads on one panel? I don't think that the inverter would try to pick up any load when you are on shore power. I always have my inverter off at the dock so that in the event that the shore power is interrupted the load would not shift over to the batteries and run them down.
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George Fletcher
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Gordon Myers
George - I re-checked.
Did a little investigation on our 450 (hull # 233) his weekend. Plug in shore power, had the Inverter and Battery Charge OFF (controlled by a Link 2000R). Turned on the Ref., after starting amps read 9.5 +/-, then turn on Hot Water Heater, amps jumped up then went to 8.5 / 9.0 amps. The Ref. shut down (cycled off) after about 35 mins. Looked at the amps, still at 9.0 +/- and immediately turned on sink knob to feel the water temperature. It was warm (not hot) so the Hot Water Heater was working to some degree while the Ref. was running. Bottom line, I notice the same thing you observed, but do not understand why, however the Freedom 25 should not be in the equation. If you discover what is happening, I would like to know.
Did a little investigation on our 450 (hull # 233) his weekend. Plug in shore power, had the Inverter and Battery Charge OFF (controlled by a Link 2000R). Turned on the Ref., after starting amps read 9.5 +/-, then turn on Hot Water Heater, amps jumped up then went to 8.5 / 9.0 amps. The Ref. shut down (cycled off) after about 35 mins. Looked at the amps, still at 9.0 +/- and immediately turned on sink knob to feel the water temperature. It was warm (not hot) so the Hot Water Heater was working to some degree while the Ref. was running. Bottom line, I notice the same thing you observed, but do not understand why, however the Freedom 25 should not be in the equation. If you discover what is happening, I would like to know.
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Mark Johnson
My 460 has got the same stuff....
but don't experience the symtoms that you are folks are. As you folks, the water heater and refer are on the "A" side. If I start the water heater it draws about 10 amps, and if I turn on the refer it too draws about 10 amps after the initial surge, but the amp meter shows almost 20 amps when both are running at the same time.
but don't experience the symtoms that you are folks are. As you folks, the water heater and refer are on the "A" side. If I start the water heater it draws about 10 amps, and if I turn on the refer it too draws about 10 amps after the initial surge, but the amp meter shows almost 20 amps when both are running at the same time.
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