I have a 93 Classic S 26' now and love it, but I am looking for more headroom. I called on a '98X and was told under power she goes 18-20 knots, and 11-12 knot under sail in a 15 knot wind. That sounds kind of farfetched to me, should I believe him. I am under the impression that I would lose a little speed if I go to an X rather than gaining speed. If X's are slower than the classics, then how much slower? Thanks
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Okay...here is another thread...
I'm going to hijack. I don't have, nor would I ever have an X. However, the best way to find out how that really compares to anything else is to look up it's PHRF rating. The only problem with that is that most guys who get an X don't race...duh! Practical Sailor did a review of the X and claimed it rated somewhere in the 240s...the C or D or S or whatever you want to call it rates around 219 or so. If you are looking for racing perfomance get a clawfoot bathtub before an X. If you are looking for headroom...
I'm going to hijack. I don't have, nor would I ever have an X. However, the best way to find out how that really compares to anything else is to look up it's PHRF rating. The only problem with that is that most guys who get an X don't race...duh! Practical Sailor did a review of the X and claimed it rated somewhere in the 240s...the C or D or S or whatever you want to call it rates around 219 or so. If you are looking for racing perfomance get a clawfoot bathtub before an X. If you are looking for headroom...
Dont be so prejudice
You shouldnt be so prejudice against an X. Here is an example. I have an old beat up motorcycle I have had for years. I rode it into town one day and parked. Parked next to me was this absolutely beautiful Harly. The guy walked up and sat on it as I took off my helmet. I said I'm really sorry to park this piece of crap next to that gorgeous bike. His response was.....thats ok at least your riding. See the moral of the story?
You shouldnt be so prejudice against an X. Here is an example. I have an old beat up motorcycle I have had for years. I rode it into town one day and parked. Parked next to me was this absolutely beautiful Harly. The guy walked up and sat on it as I took off my helmet. I said I'm really sorry to park this piece of crap next to that gorgeous bike. His response was.....thats ok at least your riding. See the moral of the story?
Point taken...
I couldn't agree more! CP...did I spy a glimmer of a sense of humor there? Good one!
I couldn't agree more! CP...did I spy a glimmer of a sense of humor there? Good one!
more questions
So I guess the answer is that it does't sail very well putting it nicely. What about a Hunter 260, anyone know how they sail or what the ratings are on it? Thanks Chuck
So I guess the answer is that it does't sail very well putting it nicely. What about a Hunter 260, anyone know how they sail or what the ratings are on it? Thanks Chuck
Whatever!
I just love the way so many people that admittedly NEVER sailed a 26x are authorities regarding their performance. I have sailed for over 30 years. Researched the boat for 3 before I bought her last Summer and I'm still amazed at how much BETTER she sails than I ever anticipated. Do yourself a favor, before spending money on ANY boat, get out on the water on the boat and see for yourself what it will do. It's a sad fact of life that there are many people that hate the fact that the 26x DOES sail well and is simply the most versatile pocket cruiser (along with the M) on the market today. Lastly, for all the unfortunate folks that spent A LOT more money on another boat only to learn of IT'S drawbacks, I'll wave as I sail past you.
I just love the way so many people that admittedly NEVER sailed a 26x are authorities regarding their performance. I have sailed for over 30 years. Researched the boat for 3 before I bought her last Summer and I'm still amazed at how much BETTER she sails than I ever anticipated. Do yourself a favor, before spending money on ANY boat, get out on the water on the boat and see for yourself what it will do. It's a sad fact of life that there are many people that hate the fact that the 26x DOES sail well and is simply the most versatile pocket cruiser (along with the M) on the market today. Lastly, for all the unfortunate folks that spent A LOT more money on another boat only to learn of IT'S drawbacks, I'll wave as I sail past you.
Yeah...
you'll sail past me with the motor running! I agree with you...although I don't think much of your analytical skills. Any boat is a great boat if it is my boat is my motto.
you'll sail past me with the motor running! I agree with you...although I don't think much of your analytical skills. Any boat is a great boat if it is my boat is my motto.
Word...
"Any boat is a great boat if it is my boat" and the corollary, "your boat sucks because it isn't mine" Yup. I have no beef with the 26X, all I was saying is there's no way it's going to sail 12 knots, unless you're talking speed over ground and you're going with the current, and/or you're really ballsy and leave the ballast empty when you're flying every inch of sail (spinnaker included). 12 knots is pretty fast for a short monohull, and it's no cakewalk to reach that speed, even on ultralight sportboats. I doubt any of the mac's 26' and under can reach 12 knots through the water.
"Any boat is a great boat if it is my boat" and the corollary, "your boat sucks because it isn't mine" Yup. I have no beef with the 26X, all I was saying is there's no way it's going to sail 12 knots, unless you're talking speed over ground and you're going with the current, and/or you're really ballsy and leave the ballast empty when you're flying every inch of sail (spinnaker included). 12 knots is pretty fast for a short monohull, and it's no cakewalk to reach that speed, even on ultralight sportboats. I doubt any of the mac's 26' and under can reach 12 knots through the water.
How fast are the 26D/S?
Dave M26D, How fast is the D? How fast have you recorded and how loaded was the boat? No debate from me, just curious. Same for Chuck with S? Jeff K
Dave M26D, How fast is the D? How fast have you recorded and how loaded was the boat? No debate from me, just curious. Same for Chuck with S? Jeff K
That's a can of worms...
When I bought my D in '88 I had a SR Mariner knot meter installed. I was amazed at how fast the boat was...so amazed I didn't believe the knot meter. So, I ran a measured mile...the numbers agreed to within a fraction of a knot...still didn't believe it, so I bought a knot stick...numbers still agreed. Finally, when I got my GPS I was convinced. It is quite easy to achieve 6.5 to 7 knots if the boat is tuned the way the manual describes. However, using that tuning, the C has excess weather helm, the mast falls off to leeward in all but the lightest conditions and it is very hard to make it go fast without stalling the stock rudder and rounding up. I have since tightened the shrouds, eliminated the mast rake, tuned in a little pre-bend and replaced the rudder. Since then, 7.5 to 8 is possible on a close to broad reach in ideal conditions. My knot meter goes to 10 kts and when surfing we can keep it pegged...I have seen GPS readings of 12 while surfing. Balance, tuning, fore and aft trim, sail trim and keeping the boat no more than 15 degrees over seem to be the key to getting max. performance from the boat. Dave Gerr (one of the most widely respected naval architects practicing today), puts the maximum speed of the 26C under sail (non-surfing) at 9.5 knots. I have never achieved that...but it is something to aspire to. The D usually PHRFs around 216 to 219 and the S usually PHRFs around 219 to 222, suggesting that the D is potentially marginally faster. BTW, I estimate my sailing weight to be approximately 3500 lbs.
When I bought my D in '88 I had a SR Mariner knot meter installed. I was amazed at how fast the boat was...so amazed I didn't believe the knot meter. So, I ran a measured mile...the numbers agreed to within a fraction of a knot...still didn't believe it, so I bought a knot stick...numbers still agreed. Finally, when I got my GPS I was convinced. It is quite easy to achieve 6.5 to 7 knots if the boat is tuned the way the manual describes. However, using that tuning, the C has excess weather helm, the mast falls off to leeward in all but the lightest conditions and it is very hard to make it go fast without stalling the stock rudder and rounding up. I have since tightened the shrouds, eliminated the mast rake, tuned in a little pre-bend and replaced the rudder. Since then, 7.5 to 8 is possible on a close to broad reach in ideal conditions. My knot meter goes to 10 kts and when surfing we can keep it pegged...I have seen GPS readings of 12 while surfing. Balance, tuning, fore and aft trim, sail trim and keeping the boat no more than 15 degrees over seem to be the key to getting max. performance from the boat. Dave Gerr (one of the most widely respected naval architects practicing today), puts the maximum speed of the 26C under sail (non-surfing) at 9.5 knots. I have never achieved that...but it is something to aspire to. The D usually PHRFs around 216 to 219 and the S usually PHRFs around 219 to 222, suggesting that the D is potentially marginally faster. BTW, I estimate my sailing weight to be approximately 3500 lbs.
Well, here are some...
...relatively unbiased numbers. The aforementioned Dave Gerr calculates the max. speed for the C under sail (non-surfing) at 9.5. He calculates the max. speed for the X at 8.3. The C PHRFs around 219, Practical Sailor put the X in the 240s. I have searched around looking for X ratings in different regions of the country. I have found some in the low 230s and others that lump them in with the C...which, I would complain my rear end off if I had an X and got stuck with a rating like that.
...relatively unbiased numbers. The aforementioned Dave Gerr calculates the max. speed for the C under sail (non-surfing) at 9.5. He calculates the max. speed for the X at 8.3. The C PHRFs around 219, Practical Sailor put the X in the 240s. I have searched around looking for X ratings in different regions of the country. I have found some in the low 230s and others that lump them in with the C...which, I would complain my rear end off if I had an X and got stuck with a rating like that.
I've scoured the internet...
looking for ratings...haven't found one yet. But that's not unusual on two counts. First, a "motorsailer" is not exactly racing material...not that folks don't race it, but they may not race in a serious enough context to get a published rating. Second, they are relatively new and the rating may not have caught up with them yet. I am very interested to see how they rate. When I first started racing my D, it was the second year they were on the water. My racing comittee didn't know how to rate it. So, after about a week of deliberation, they came up with a rating of 267. So, we raced (my two pre-teen daughters and me) and consistantly came in between first and third. Boy, did we have a spring to our step when we went to dinner at the club afterward. Finally, someone said "wait a minute, how can these fools come in at the end of the pack every time and still time out between first and third?" That's when they took a closer look and we ended up with a 216...took the bounce out of our step! Moral to the story is, it takes a couple of years for them to shake it all out.
looking for ratings...haven't found one yet. But that's not unusual on two counts. First, a "motorsailer" is not exactly racing material...not that folks don't race it, but they may not race in a serious enough context to get a published rating. Second, they are relatively new and the rating may not have caught up with them yet. I am very interested to see how they rate. When I first started racing my D, it was the second year they were on the water. My racing comittee didn't know how to rate it. So, after about a week of deliberation, they came up with a rating of 267. So, we raced (my two pre-teen daughters and me) and consistantly came in between first and third. Boy, did we have a spring to our step when we went to dinner at the club afterward. Finally, someone said "wait a minute, how can these fools come in at the end of the pack every time and still time out between first and third?" That's when they took a closer look and we ended up with a 216...took the bounce out of our step! Moral to the story is, it takes a couple of years for them to shake it all out.
Gotta be careful with those ratings...
At the local yacht club regattas, this heavy, old, wooden catboat literally always "wins" beacuse its rating is ridiculously high. I don't know what the number is, but it's frustrating to have someone who finishes near the end of the pack wind up winning. I've been tempted to investigate their rating scheme a few times, but always end up getting lazy about it.
At the local yacht club regattas, this heavy, old, wooden catboat literally always "wins" beacuse its rating is ridiculously high. I don't know what the number is, but it's frustrating to have someone who finishes near the end of the pack wind up winning. I've been tempted to investigate their rating scheme a few times, but always end up getting lazy about it.
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