86 272 ceptic tank to bilge issues

[drester228]

Hope someone can help. Left boat with dry bilge, returned 3 days later with half full bilge of dirty "sewer" water. Pumped out forward tank, cleaned bilge to spotless.
Several weeks later dry bilge on Thursday, returned Saturday to main cockpit bilge again half full of "sewage" fluid.
Anyone out there ever experienced this and can tell me how dirty water gets from v-berth holding tank to main cockpit bilge.
Thank you in advance.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

... tell me how dirty water gets from v-berth holding tank to main cockpit bilge.

That much is easy to explain: Gravity. Most boats settle at least a degree or two stern-heavy, and liquids run downhill...

But are you 100% certain the source of the dirty water IS your holding tank? Have you visually inspected the tank and area under the v-berth that it's in to see whether it's dry? Or are you just assuming that what you're finding is sewage because it stinks? It may not be... Are you in salt water or fresh?

I have a suspicion as to what's happening, but I need answers to some questions to be sure:

Are you pumping out before leaving the boat, or leaving with a full tank, pumping out when you return? If you ever do have pump out BEFORE leaving the boat, do you find anything in the bilges when you return? Or only when you've left the tank full? What's your tank capacity? Are you sure the volume of dirty water in the bilge(s) doesn't exceed your tank capacity?

You said you pumped out the "forward tank"...not many 26' boats have two holding tanks, so I'm guessing from this and other references that you haven't changed your profile info since "upsizing" to a bigger boat?? Where's the other tank located in the boat? Same questions as above about it...have you visually inspected the locker it's in? Do you leave it full or empty? If in salt water , are you plumbed to dump the tank at sea beyond 3 miles? (if in fresh you shouldn't be!)

Finally make/model/age of your toilets?

 

[Pat]

Are you referring to a 272 or O'Day 26? The 272 head holding tank is in the bow under
the v-berth....there is no holding tank under the cockpit in the 272.....PC

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

...there is no holding tank under the cockpit in the 272

He isn't saying there is, Pat...the cockpit bilge is where he's finding stinky liquid that may or may not have originated from the holding tank under the v-berth. His reference to a "forward" tank--indicating there's another holding tank somewhere aft of that one--leaves me a little baffled 'cuz it would be VERY unusual for any boat under about 35' to have more than one waste holding tank.

 

[drester228]

Sewage tank is in vberth, fresh water tank under port side main cabin berth.

Little bit of raw sewage water in vberth compartment where tank is located. Main cabin bilge half full.

Fresh water kept boat and liquid in bilge in vberth and under main cabin floor boards is raw sewage water. Can tell from smell.

I put fresh water in vberth area after I cleaned it all out last time and after a week it had not drained to main bilge. Hum I wondered if there is a hose from tank area (vberth) to main bilge such as a overflow or such. Tank should not have been full but rocking in the waves may have had what was in it slosh around.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Here's my guess: You have a blocked holding tank vent that's causing the tank--the whole system--to become so seriously pressurized by that it's forcing effluent to escape wherever it can. That may be a y-valve, the tank discharge fitting, inlet fitting, vent fitting... I'm surprised it hasn't erupted in the toilet! The only reason it hasn't is because it's found an easier way out. If I'm right, the only reason you haven't had the fun of getting soaked by a geyser out the deck pumpout fitting when you loosen the cap is because you don't try to pumpout before leaving the boat, you wait till you return. By then the pressure has been relieved enough to let the pumpout get at least some of what's left in the tank before it pulls a vaccuum that won't allow it to remove any more.
A manual toilet that becomes increasingly hard to pump or an electric toilet that starts to "burp" and/or "spit up" after you've used it a bit would confirm my guess.

So do a couple of things: Immediately upon returning to the boat, BEFORE you use the head or try to pump out, check your tank vent...start with the vent thru-hull. Use a screwdriver blade, ice pick or whatever works to clean it out. If there's a screen in it, knock it out...screens cause more problems than they solve. If the tank is less than half full, remove the vent line from it and clean out that end of the vent line and the vent fitting on the tank. Might be a good idea to open the deck pumpout cap before you remove any hoses, just in case there's still any pressure left in the system.

NOW you should be able to pump out and THOROUGHLY rinse out the tank. Do that before you leave the boat this time. Then fill the tank with clean water to which you've added red food coloring. When you return the boat, you should see a pink stain where any leaks are, but now that the system is no longer being pressurized, your bilges should be dry.

All this is just a guess, but my experience and limited psychic powers tell me I'm at least on the right track, if I haven't nailed it yet.

 

[drester228]

Peggie Hall,

Thanks for all the great advise. Vent lines were going to be my next step. Thoughts on the following: When we bought the boat, no raw water smell, once we had trailered home and used the head a few times, real bad smell. I am thinking that the PO did not pump out and a layer or so settled to the bottom and maybe even hardened. We Pumped tank and bilge after first overflow and it was fine for a while. Plenty of fresh water and Blue stuff..thought we had it fixed till this last time just recently.

Anyway since my plastic tank is almost 30 years old I cannot even see the level of fluid in the tank, tank is so clouded up..I am thinking of putting a 3" clear access port in the top of the tank, that way I can see if I still have gunk settled in the bottom that needs washed out and and can monitor level of tank. Any problems you see with putting that access port in the top of the tank and just sealing it to heck and back?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

If you have odor inside the boat, my money is on permeated sanitation hoses, 'cuz odor from inside the tank has only one place to go: out the tank vent (if it CAN get out!). A 30 yr old tank may or may not be worth cleaning out...depends on who the mfr was. If it's a good quality tank--and I'm betting it is or it would have exploded!--it can be made to look new again with a little effort and the right products (without getting your hands in it)...an inspection port would give you access to use a power washer in it. Beckson makes inspection port retrofit kits in a bunch of sizes. (no, you don't just "seal the heck out of it" to install it. <g> )

However, 30--or even 10--yr old hoses should definitely be replaced...10 yrs is the average working life of ANY hose--water, waste, fuel, exhaust--because rubber and plastic dry out and become hard, brittle and prone to cracking with age.

What's the make/model/age of your toilet? It's prob'ly overdue for replacement too.

It occurs to me that, on a boat the size of yours, you could really simplify your life by replacing everything with a self contained system. You'll find lots of info on "MSD" portapotties ("MSD" in the part # means it's fitted to be permanently install and plumbed for pumpout)...so don't pooh-pooh the idea till you've read up on it. Then get back to me with questions.

 

[MaritimeTees]

Porta Potti is the only way to go. I swear by them. I replaced mine because you can do whatever you want with them. No restrictions! I just empty at my dockside pumpout, takes literally a couple of minutes. I went with a Thetford. I have had several uncomfortable situations with used boats that make the smell unbearable. The only way to clear everything is replace everything.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

The only way to clear everything is replace everything.

Not necessarily true, but that's a subject for a different thread...


If a 2-3 gallon porta potty is enough capacity for you, then portable is fine. But a full 5-6 gallon tank weighs about 50 lbs, which is more than most people want to drag off a boat and up the dock.

The "MSD" versions, which are designed to be permanently installed and are fitted for pumpout, is the answer for that...all the convenience of a toilet and tank, but with no moving parts, so no toilet maintenance....no plumbing except a vent and pumpout line, so you don't lose any storage space to hoses and a tank...and they hold 50-60 flushes. You'd need a 30 gallon holding tank to hold that many from any marine toilet. IMO, they're a great solution for any boat under 30'.

The online store right here carries portable and MSD versions of both Thetford and SeaLand portapotties.

 

[MaritimeTees]

Yes I agree with Peggy. I use the 3 gallon thetford 320p and my wife uses it all weekend with me 3/4 of the time and its good for 4 days sometimes 5. Thats with tp and the whole shebang. Easy to empty just throw lower unit in dockcart and its done. The 5 gallon would be heavy for the average person and having it plumbed would be wise. I just like being able to get it off fast. I sail in the Pacific Ocean so dumping it past the 3 mile marker some times comes in handy when your at the islands for 2 weeks. One time on my previous boat the holding tank got clogged on a passage and it was full. No way to empty. That was not pleasant. Remember using a bucket for 3 days.

 

[Alan Gomes]

The only way to clear everything is replace everything.

Not necessarily true, but that's a subject for a different thread...


If a 2-3 gallon porta potty is enough capacity for you, then portable is fine. But a full 5-6 gallon tank weighs about 50 lbs, which is more than most people want to drag off a boat and up the dock.

The "MSD" versions, which are designed to be permanently installed and are fitted for pumpout, is the answer for that...all the convenience of a toilet and tank, but with no moving parts, so no toilet maintenance....no plumbing except a vent and pumpout line, so you don't lose any storage space to hoses and a tank...and they hold 50-60 flushes. You'd need a 30 gallon holding tank to hold that many from any marine toilet. IMO, they're a great solution for any boat under 30'.

The online store right here carries portable and MSD versions of both Thetford and SeaLand portapotties.

I followed Peggy's advice on this when I got my Ericson 26-2 and have been totally satisfied. I have mine plumbed through a macerator for overboard discharge when 3 miles out. It works very, very well and no odor problems. I couldn't be happier with it. The only caution I'd have is that, with the Thetford 555P at least, the supplied plastic hold down brackets were totally inadequate. After making a new one out of stainless all is good!