84 H31 Mast Rake
- Thread starter choover
- Start date
Check out the H'31/H'34 manual. They have a fair explanation of how the mast is supposed to setup. The mast should be pretty much straight up but there is "pre-bend" in the mast, that is normally setup on a bench before stepping the mast.
Choover...
Here's what I have on the B&R Rig that should help you understand it better. It's not set up like a "standard" mast.
Here's what I have on the B&R Rig that should help you understand it better. It's not set up like a "standard" mast.
Choover...
C, here's what else I have on the B&R Rigging...
I'm trying to convert a couple of Word docs to send too...
C, here's what else I have on the B&R Rigging...
I'm trying to convert a couple of Word docs to send too...
From Hunter-Marlow
"The rake is going to land somewhere around 10". According the gear it can go either way a couple of inches. Sometimes it's more about how it sails rather than the settings."
Don Guillette has an excellent review on 1/23/14 on how to sail to find out the effectiveness of your rake. (if you can find it publish it)
"The rake is going to land somewhere around 10". According the gear it can go either way a couple of inches. Sometimes it's more about how it sails rather than the settings."
Don Guillette has an excellent review on 1/23/14 on how to sail to find out the effectiveness of your rake. (if you can find it publish it)
I found the post-on Weather Helm- whicjh is determined by mast rake-more mast rake-more weathe helm.
Re: Weather helm
Top
Here's how I explained the method to determine IF the newbie had a weather helm problem. Most boats don't have a weather helm problem -- normally it's the fault of the skipper and the trimmer.
The first thing the skipper and trimmer have to do is set the main and jib sail trim controls for closehauled and 100% efficiency otherwise this whole thing is a waste of time. It may take a few sailing outing because the wind needs to cooperate in a couple of ranges.
In 5 knots of wind closehauled, take your hands off the wheel/tiller and see what happens. If the boat is in balance it should sail straight and slowly head into the wind. Only the slightest bit of rudder is necessary to bring it back to a straight line. In 10 to 12 knots of wind do the same thing and if everything is right only about 3 to 4 degrees of rudder will be needed to bring it back to a straight line. Here's the big test -- in 15 knots do the same thing and you'll need 6 to 8 degrees of rudder to bring it back to a straight line.
If your boat performs as outlined above, you don't have a weather helm problem.
Re: Weather helm
TopHere's how I explained the method to determine IF the newbie had a weather helm problem. Most boats don't have a weather helm problem -- normally it's the fault of the skipper and the trimmer.
The first thing the skipper and trimmer have to do is set the main and jib sail trim controls for closehauled and 100% efficiency otherwise this whole thing is a waste of time. It may take a few sailing outing because the wind needs to cooperate in a couple of ranges.
In 5 knots of wind closehauled, take your hands off the wheel/tiller and see what happens. If the boat is in balance it should sail straight and slowly head into the wind. Only the slightest bit of rudder is necessary to bring it back to a straight line. In 10 to 12 knots of wind do the same thing and if everything is right only about 3 to 4 degrees of rudder will be needed to bring it back to a straight line. Here's the big test -- in 15 knots do the same thing and you'll need 6 to 8 degrees of rudder to bring it back to a straight line.
If your boat performs as outlined above, you don't have a weather helm problem.
Sorry, I made a big error in attribution. I thought I had made the attribution in my quote. This is a quote by Don Guuilette on the subject matter titled "Weather Helm". I am a fan of his and I have recommended his Guides to several sailors in my Club and I have given copy to my sailor son. It's the best investment in sailing.
Sorry Don
Sorry Don
choover,
I'd like to join in your discussion regarding my 1993 H27, if it's OK, owned for 3 years and never tuned since I bought it.
I've never learned how to tune the mast, didn't realize I need to.
Last weekend we got caught by a storm, had serious weather helm, and First Mate daughter noted lax leeward shrouds.
Have been reading up on tuning, doesn't seem hard. It's a keeled mast so I assume the 1% rake is needed. Hunter doesn't specify how much though in my manual.
Stupid question #1-The mast should have a forward curvature but the rake should be aft, correct?
Stupid question #2- For a 39 ft mast, the rake should be 4-5 inches (468" x .01)?
Stupid question #3- To achieve rake, do you tighten the forestay partially when all stays/shrouds have been loosened and then tighten the split backstay until you've achieved the correct rake?
Stupid question #4-What could I possibly do wrong in tuning the mast that could be catastrophic under sail with "Murphey" on board?
I've downloaded the files Dan posted. They'll be a big help.
Thanks for letting me on board in the discussion. I don't know enough to ever offer help or solutions. I'm still in the question phase of boat ownership!
Fair winds your way.
I'd like to join in your discussion regarding my 1993 H27, if it's OK, owned for 3 years and never tuned since I bought it.
I've never learned how to tune the mast, didn't realize I need to.
Last weekend we got caught by a storm, had serious weather helm, and First Mate daughter noted lax leeward shrouds.
Have been reading up on tuning, doesn't seem hard. It's a keeled mast so I assume the 1% rake is needed. Hunter doesn't specify how much though in my manual.
Stupid question #1-The mast should have a forward curvature but the rake should be aft, correct?
Stupid question #2- For a 39 ft mast, the rake should be 4-5 inches (468" x .01)?
Stupid question #3- To achieve rake, do you tighten the forestay partially when all stays/shrouds have been loosened and then tighten the split backstay until you've achieved the correct rake?
Stupid question #4-What could I possibly do wrong in tuning the mast that could be catastrophic under sail with "Murphey" on board?
I've downloaded the files Dan posted. They'll be a big help.
Thanks for letting me on board in the discussion. I don't know enough to ever offer help or solutions. I'm still in the question phase of boat ownership!
Fair winds your way.
Glad to see your questions. I'm like you and trying to build my knowledge based. My mast seems to be correct in its rake but the PO has it bent aft which tends to flatten the sail. I will likely take some of the bend out of it. I look forward to responses received for your post.
The deed is done, using the aforementioned links (except MAD magazine!).
Once you get into it, it's not too hard. My mast has a factory curve aft and did not require stays tuning. After shrouds tuning I took the Blue Pearl out in moderate winds for performance tuning and got a good look at which shroud (forwards) needed an additional bit more turning of the turnbuckles, while sailing a close haul, close reach and looking at the leeward shrouds on each tack.
Hint....to "see" mast bend or leaning athwartships, line up the forestay or backstay to midline of the mast from the dock, looking fore to aft or aft to fore. It's like sighting a scope!
Good luck.
Steady winds your way!
Not sure whether it is "bent aft" or bowed forward? The B & R rig needs to have a bow in it of 1%. If the last sailmaker was familiar with this kind of setup, then the sail luff will have that contour built in. Straightening the mast won't necessarily un-flatten it and it could allow that relatively thin crosssection of mast (because of the extra rigging used) to possibly invert under sailing load. Check to make sure the prebend is within manufacturer's spec.