I see, hear and read comments about Hunters not being "Blue Water Boats" from time to time. I sail in Kaneohe bay and ocasionaly make it out to the open ocean. On average we can see seas from 3 to 4 all the way up in the 8-15 ft range. We get banged around a bit but haven't sustained any damage. Time permiting I plan on sailing intra Island. The Molakai channal is said to be in the top 10 as far a ruff seas are concerned. My chain plates are sound and I have 1/4 inch rigging. What do "they" mean when they say Hunters are not Blue Water boats?
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What they mean...f
Blue water boats are typically heavy, extra reinforced, often have water tight bulkheads, full keels and deep draft along with other features that give them this classification. They don't turn well (long full keel and deep hull) and are not know for being fast sailers, ie: bristols, westsails, etc. The main thing is strength. Hunter makes a good cruiser/racer or cruiser. The hull is designed for speed not comfort on heavy seas. A super heavy keel and full length keel along with hull shape of most "blue water boats" give them a "sea-kindlyness" or stability that you don't get on a shallow keeled, flatter bottom boat. Can you sail yours on blue water? Teenagers have crossed oceans in 20 footers with no instruments. Did they have maximum safety and comfort? What do you think? Doug
Blue water boats are typically heavy, extra reinforced, often have water tight bulkheads, full keels and deep draft along with other features that give them this classification. They don't turn well (long full keel and deep hull) and are not know for being fast sailers, ie: bristols, westsails, etc. The main thing is strength. Hunter makes a good cruiser/racer or cruiser. The hull is designed for speed not comfort on heavy seas. A super heavy keel and full length keel along with hull shape of most "blue water boats" give them a "sea-kindlyness" or stability that you don't get on a shallow keeled, flatter bottom boat. Can you sail yours on blue water? Teenagers have crossed oceans in 20 footers with no instruments. Did they have maximum safety and comfort? What do you think? Doug
Dan; is this a question or a statement?
If this is a real question, I will be happy to try and answer it in some detail. On the other hand, if your post is primarily designed to provoke discussion it would have been more convincing if you had just crossed the Alenuihaha Channel (aka "the ship-eater") in 30 knot trade winds... Not that it can't be done safely with your boat. However, I have a feeling it just might change your perspective a bit. Henk Meuzelaar, Rivendel II "Nothing goes to weather like a Hunter !"
If this is a real question, I will be happy to try and answer it in some detail. On the other hand, if your post is primarily designed to provoke discussion it would have been more convincing if you had just crossed the Alenuihaha Channel (aka "the ship-eater") in 30 knot trade winds... Not that it can't be done safely with your boat. However, I have a feeling it just might change your perspective a bit. Henk Meuzelaar, Rivendel II "Nothing goes to weather like a Hunter !"
question
Henk, What I really want, I guess, is to figure out what my boat, sailed compatently, should be able to handle. Thanks to all who take the time to answer Dan "Illusions"
Henk, What I really want, I guess, is to figure out what my boat, sailed compatently, should be able to handle. Thanks to all who take the time to answer Dan "Illusions"
Hunters at Sea
I think we all like to hear from others who have sailed our boats longer and farther than us. And what has passed for conventional wisdom in boats is being challenged. I would recommend reading the article on this site "Q & A with Jim Bohart" (http://www.hunterowners.com/ref/qa/qa.html). It deals with Hunter's recent design philosophy and has interesting snippets (the Hunter dealer in South Africa who delivers all new boats by sea accross the big southern ocean). Not that long ago only boats like Cape Dorys and Shannons were considered seaworthy enough to take to sea. I was always skeptical of Hunter until I owned one.
I think we all like to hear from others who have sailed our boats longer and farther than us. And what has passed for conventional wisdom in boats is being challenged. I would recommend reading the article on this site "Q & A with Jim Bohart" (http://www.hunterowners.com/ref/qa/qa.html). It deals with Hunter's recent design philosophy and has interesting snippets (the Hunter dealer in South Africa who delivers all new boats by sea accross the big southern ocean). Not that long ago only boats like Cape Dorys and Shannons were considered seaworthy enough to take to sea. I was always skeptical of Hunter until I owned one.
Blue Water
If you're going across an ocean, small boats cannot outrun the weather so they have to be able to survive whatever comes. Take a look at the scantlings, hull to deck joint, chain plates, mast step, keel bolts, tiny cockpit, narrow companionway, small ports, and thick hull layup (if you can see it) of something like a Pacific Seacraft, Hans Christian or Bristol Channel Cutter. They're built like tanks. Tanks that make pretty lame daysailors. On the otherhand, look at the same features on an <30ft Beneteau, Catalina, or even a racing boat like a J Boat or Olsen. In spite of the marketing hype, these are much more lightly built and obviously not nearly as strong. But frankly, the skill level of the skipper is the primary determinate of if a boat will get in trouble. I bought my 1981 Hunter 30 because its a strong plain boat. Are you in a marina? Walk down the row of boats and look at the size of the forestay chain plate, turnbuckles and forestays on similiar size boats and compare it to yours. You'll feel better about your boat, but some more expensive, newer boats may look cheesy. I don't know much about your waters, but I make 50+ mile offshore passages pretty regularly in my 1981 H30. Of course, regardless of what boat I'm in, I check the weather, all the safety equipment, VHF radio, base of the rigging, and all the through hulls before I do. You should too. Oh, and every sailor I ever met has listed their local waters as "in the top ten as far as ruff seas." I guess 10 places somewhere really are, but thats no reason not to go sailing.
If you're going across an ocean, small boats cannot outrun the weather so they have to be able to survive whatever comes. Take a look at the scantlings, hull to deck joint, chain plates, mast step, keel bolts, tiny cockpit, narrow companionway, small ports, and thick hull layup (if you can see it) of something like a Pacific Seacraft, Hans Christian or Bristol Channel Cutter. They're built like tanks. Tanks that make pretty lame daysailors. On the otherhand, look at the same features on an <30ft Beneteau, Catalina, or even a racing boat like a J Boat or Olsen. In spite of the marketing hype, these are much more lightly built and obviously not nearly as strong. But frankly, the skill level of the skipper is the primary determinate of if a boat will get in trouble. I bought my 1981 Hunter 30 because its a strong plain boat. Are you in a marina? Walk down the row of boats and look at the size of the forestay chain plate, turnbuckles and forestays on similiar size boats and compare it to yours. You'll feel better about your boat, but some more expensive, newer boats may look cheesy. I don't know much about your waters, but I make 50+ mile offshore passages pretty regularly in my 1981 H30. Of course, regardless of what boat I'm in, I check the weather, all the safety equipment, VHF radio, base of the rigging, and all the through hulls before I do. You should too. Oh, and every sailor I ever met has listed their local waters as "in the top ten as far as ruff seas." I guess 10 places somewhere really are, but thats no reason not to go sailing.
comfort
this summer i had the benifit of taking my h35 to kodiak akaska, the trip was great except for about 20 hours of 20ft seas and 45-55 kts wind. the first thing my wife said when we got back was, we need a heavy displacement boat, dont get me wrong the boat handled the weather fine and could have handled a hell of alot more. (i even have more respect for the boat now) but with all that pounding for 20 hrs i couldnt imagine doing 5 maybe even 7 days ,too much for my body. mechanically the only thing i really worried about was the heavy loads put on the rudder at times.now we are looking to upgrade to about 40ft and 15ton, its to bad hunter dosnt make a full keel heavy boat id be the first to buy one.
this summer i had the benifit of taking my h35 to kodiak akaska, the trip was great except for about 20 hours of 20ft seas and 45-55 kts wind. the first thing my wife said when we got back was, we need a heavy displacement boat, dont get me wrong the boat handled the weather fine and could have handled a hell of alot more. (i even have more respect for the boat now) but with all that pounding for 20 hrs i couldnt imagine doing 5 maybe even 7 days ,too much for my body. mechanically the only thing i really worried about was the heavy loads put on the rudder at times.now we are looking to upgrade to about 40ft and 15ton, its to bad hunter dosnt make a full keel heavy boat id be the first to buy one.
Suitability of H30 for Hawaiian waters
Thanks, Dan. FWIW here are my $ .02 Six months on a H33.5 in the Chesapeake Bay is as close as my personal experience with mid-size Hunters like the H30 goes. However, with our Legend 43 "Rivendel II" we have twice visited Hawaii and gone up and down the island chain with stops in Hawaii, Maui, Oahu and Kauai. These islands are certainly not everyone's idea of a "nice cruising ground". The trades can be very strong at times (making it difficult to go back up the island chain once you drop down to the big island), the windward coasts are rugged and inhospitable, the channels are notorious for their Venturi effect (particularly the Alenuihaha channel between Hawaii and Maui) and sheltered harbors or anchorages with good holding ground are often far and between. On the other hand; few vistas compare to watching and hearing the red-hot lava battle the ocean at night (on Hawaii's eastern shores; if you are lucky) or to seeing Hana Lei Bay and Kauai's Napali coast recede into the fog when beating north for the long slog home. In my opinion, your H30 should enable you to go anywhere in the Hawaiian islands, provided skipper and vessel are well prepared and you pick your weather windows carefully. In "my book", vessel preparation means (1) verifying that hull, keel and rudder are sound; (2) replacing all running rigging every 5 years and all standing rigging every 10; (3) taking all safety measures described in the Corenman's excellent manual for Pacific Cup participants; and (4) -- above all -- backing up every single critical part or system. For instance, you should never have to lose your mast if a single shroud or stay carries away if you back your forestay up with an inner stay and your intermediates with running stays. Also, back up your main halyard with a spare halyard, your VHF with a spare VHF, and even your rudder with a spare rudder (Rivendel II has an Autohelm windvane with big accessory rudder).This principle of redundancy to make a relatively small boat ready for bigger work is nowhere better described than by father and son Hayes, in their wonderfully modest book describing their voyage around Cape Horn. Yet, you may want to go one step further: on your first passages make sure you also have a spare crew member! Flying Dutchman
Thanks, Dan. FWIW here are my $ .02 Six months on a H33.5 in the Chesapeake Bay is as close as my personal experience with mid-size Hunters like the H30 goes. However, with our Legend 43 "Rivendel II" we have twice visited Hawaii and gone up and down the island chain with stops in Hawaii, Maui, Oahu and Kauai. These islands are certainly not everyone's idea of a "nice cruising ground". The trades can be very strong at times (making it difficult to go back up the island chain once you drop down to the big island), the windward coasts are rugged and inhospitable, the channels are notorious for their Venturi effect (particularly the Alenuihaha channel between Hawaii and Maui) and sheltered harbors or anchorages with good holding ground are often far and between. On the other hand; few vistas compare to watching and hearing the red-hot lava battle the ocean at night (on Hawaii's eastern shores; if you are lucky) or to seeing Hana Lei Bay and Kauai's Napali coast recede into the fog when beating north for the long slog home. In my opinion, your H30 should enable you to go anywhere in the Hawaiian islands, provided skipper and vessel are well prepared and you pick your weather windows carefully. In "my book", vessel preparation means (1) verifying that hull, keel and rudder are sound; (2) replacing all running rigging every 5 years and all standing rigging every 10; (3) taking all safety measures described in the Corenman's excellent manual for Pacific Cup participants; and (4) -- above all -- backing up every single critical part or system. For instance, you should never have to lose your mast if a single shroud or stay carries away if you back your forestay up with an inner stay and your intermediates with running stays. Also, back up your main halyard with a spare halyard, your VHF with a spare VHF, and even your rudder with a spare rudder (Rivendel II has an Autohelm windvane with big accessory rudder).This principle of redundancy to make a relatively small boat ready for bigger work is nowhere better described than by father and son Hayes, in their wonderfully modest book describing their voyage around Cape Horn. Yet, you may want to go one step further: on your first passages make sure you also have a spare crew member! Flying Dutchman
the making of a blue water boat
It's not heay displacement, nor long or full keel, nor rig, if you look at the boats, solo racing around the world, their wide, fin keeled, spade rudder, and light weight. it's the way their built, like a corked bottle, your boat can be modified to be more seaworthy.
It's not heay displacement, nor long or full keel, nor rig, if you look at the boats, solo racing around the world, their wide, fin keeled, spade rudder, and light weight. it's the way their built, like a corked bottle, your boat can be modified to be more seaworthy.
I've done in one much smaller
Twenty years ago before GPS, Cell Phones, EPIRBS and all of this new stuff I sailed in 22, and 24 ft boats to all of the Islands except the Big Island. Most of the time we would try to go with at least two other boats and alway stayed within sight of each other. So as long as everything is in good order I would not hesitate you may want to crew on another boat or get someone who has done it a few times to go with you as crew before you do it for the first time on your boat. Just think of it as a day trip to Molokai and the rest is easy.
Twenty years ago before GPS, Cell Phones, EPIRBS and all of this new stuff I sailed in 22, and 24 ft boats to all of the Islands except the Big Island. Most of the time we would try to go with at least two other boats and alway stayed within sight of each other. So as long as everything is in good order I would not hesitate you may want to crew on another boat or get someone who has done it a few times to go with you as crew before you do it for the first time on your boat. Just think of it as a day trip to Molokai and the rest is easy.
Hey Tom....
Just an observation, nothing personal. The racing boats you mentioned are of course everything you say and not at all patterned after the traditional heavy disp. and deep passage maker. However, they also loose keels and masts every week. When is the last time a Hans Christian or Westsail feel apart 1/4 of the way through an ocean passage. These boats are not blue water boats they are stripped down ultra light, over canvased death traps that I bet are a blast to sail. Would you put your family in one on a trip to the Bahamas and expect to get there without the threat of major failer or death? Me either. Doug
Just an observation, nothing personal. The racing boats you mentioned are of course everything you say and not at all patterned after the traditional heavy disp. and deep passage maker. However, they also loose keels and masts every week. When is the last time a Hans Christian or Westsail feel apart 1/4 of the way through an ocean passage. These boats are not blue water boats they are stripped down ultra light, over canvased death traps that I bet are a blast to sail. Would you put your family in one on a trip to the Bahamas and expect to get there without the threat of major failer or death? Me either. Doug
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