I have a 1979 Hunter 30 with the main sheet traveler inconviently installed forward in the cockpit blocking access to the companionway. Has anyone ever converted this system to an arch traveler track over the hatch on the deck. Is the deck strong enough to support the pressure? Thanks, Sam
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traveler on a 27
We had one on our 1980 27. It was a schaeffer and was installed just forward of the hatch opening. It was bolted to the deck through only the top layer of fiberglass. The lower layer of glass (cabin ceiling) had two access holes cut to enable access to the mounting bolts. The holes were covered with small pieces of teak. To bottom line this, it worked well and seemed very strong. Don Bodemann
We had one on our 1980 27. It was a schaeffer and was installed just forward of the hatch opening. It was bolted to the deck through only the top layer of fiberglass. The lower layer of glass (cabin ceiling) had two access holes cut to enable access to the mounting bolts. The holes were covered with small pieces of teak. To bottom line this, it worked well and seemed very strong. Don Bodemann
Common upgrade on H37C.
The early models like my 1979 have the traveller on the bridgedeck. Many have been moved to the forward edge of the companionway. All H37Cs were moved to mid-boom after 1980. Garhauer makes a reasonably priced traveller with 4:1 adjustment and towers. You will want to bolt through the headliner through large backing plates. I just purchased new Garhauer blocks with fiddles and cam cleat. I plan to keep my mainsheet control end-boom. And I do not like the current route forward under the boom, then down and back to the cabin-top winch. The bridgedeck traveller does not bother me.
The early models like my 1979 have the traveller on the bridgedeck. Many have been moved to the forward edge of the companionway. All H37Cs were moved to mid-boom after 1980. Garhauer makes a reasonably priced traveller with 4:1 adjustment and towers. You will want to bolt through the headliner through large backing plates. I just purchased new Garhauer blocks with fiddles and cam cleat. I plan to keep my mainsheet control end-boom. And I do not like the current route forward under the boom, then down and back to the cabin-top winch. The bridgedeck traveller does not bother me.
Traveller location diatribe
Unfortunately for Sam and others who find this inconvenient, the right place for the traveller track actually is on the bridge deck, which is typically reinforced to handle the loads because the front wall of the cockpit well is traditionally a stressed bulkhead. Mid-boom sheeting is is a problem with the 27 that I have written on in these boards before. Marketing pressure on that boat sort of necessitated a longer cabin trunk than was ideal and the cockpit was made too short to accommodate a true traveller arrangement. I think it's part of why the 27 has a reputation for sailing less than ideally. Mid-boom sheeting which reached its heyday in the CCA '60s has certain drawbacks both in engineering and sail trim. In my opinion it is only truly adequate for boats used in light air, very small boats (such as the Sunfish and Laser) and small mizzens on yawls (on which I happen to insist upon a proper boom-end sheetline anyway). The biggest problem is in imposing too great a moment on the boom. I mentioned this in the Hunter 27 traveller postings and admitted that with a decent aluminium boom in good condition, normal sailing practices and the safety factor of heel angle tend to minimise this, but the issue will still be there and should be avoided when possible. The reduced leverage imposes greater loads on sheeting and even moving the traveller car side-to-side and pulls down on the boom from a poor angle. Really any sheetline on a boom-mounted sail ought to pull vertically from the boom's very end; anything else is a compromise. How much of a compromise you want to incur is your business, but you will definitely have to consider uprating the blocks on the control lines and the mainsheet itself, and getting the sheet (and possibly even the control lines if you frequent heavier weather) assigned full-time to a winch, because my guess is you'll need it. The other problem is that it sort of lends itself to ugliness on deck. Perhaps the single most unsightly thing about the production Cherubini 44 ketch was the traveller suspended on an awkward little bridge about 10 inches above the hatch cover. It made leading traveller control lines aft towards the cockpit all the more complicated and really negated any claims to making the boat truly comfortable for single- or short-handing at sea. It was something I always hated but honestly I cannot recall if there was actually room to sheet the boom to the bridge deck aft of the companionway– seems to me the boom was long enough and it was a convenience issue, but I might be overestimating the length of the boom, particularly as the later 44s were done with higher-aspect rigs.... Under sail a traveller car by the companionway threshhold is not as inconvenient as you may think. The mainsheet purchase can actually make a pretty good grab-handle for using the companionway whilst heeled. Much of the time it is a little off-centre or could easily be made so. In port or under power the trick is to slide it off to one side to get it ourt of the way anyway– many awnings will accommodate this. If unrestrained convenience is your thing, you may well bear in mind that adage my dad liked to repeat about everything– 'you get what you pay for!' JC
Unfortunately for Sam and others who find this inconvenient, the right place for the traveller track actually is on the bridge deck, which is typically reinforced to handle the loads because the front wall of the cockpit well is traditionally a stressed bulkhead. Mid-boom sheeting is is a problem with the 27 that I have written on in these boards before. Marketing pressure on that boat sort of necessitated a longer cabin trunk than was ideal and the cockpit was made too short to accommodate a true traveller arrangement. I think it's part of why the 27 has a reputation for sailing less than ideally. Mid-boom sheeting which reached its heyday in the CCA '60s has certain drawbacks both in engineering and sail trim. In my opinion it is only truly adequate for boats used in light air, very small boats (such as the Sunfish and Laser) and small mizzens on yawls (on which I happen to insist upon a proper boom-end sheetline anyway). The biggest problem is in imposing too great a moment on the boom. I mentioned this in the Hunter 27 traveller postings and admitted that with a decent aluminium boom in good condition, normal sailing practices and the safety factor of heel angle tend to minimise this, but the issue will still be there and should be avoided when possible. The reduced leverage imposes greater loads on sheeting and even moving the traveller car side-to-side and pulls down on the boom from a poor angle. Really any sheetline on a boom-mounted sail ought to pull vertically from the boom's very end; anything else is a compromise. How much of a compromise you want to incur is your business, but you will definitely have to consider uprating the blocks on the control lines and the mainsheet itself, and getting the sheet (and possibly even the control lines if you frequent heavier weather) assigned full-time to a winch, because my guess is you'll need it. The other problem is that it sort of lends itself to ugliness on deck. Perhaps the single most unsightly thing about the production Cherubini 44 ketch was the traveller suspended on an awkward little bridge about 10 inches above the hatch cover. It made leading traveller control lines aft towards the cockpit all the more complicated and really negated any claims to making the boat truly comfortable for single- or short-handing at sea. It was something I always hated but honestly I cannot recall if there was actually room to sheet the boom to the bridge deck aft of the companionway– seems to me the boom was long enough and it was a convenience issue, but I might be overestimating the length of the boom, particularly as the later 44s were done with higher-aspect rigs.... Under sail a traveller car by the companionway threshhold is not as inconvenient as you may think. The mainsheet purchase can actually make a pretty good grab-handle for using the companionway whilst heeled. Much of the time it is a little off-centre or could easily be made so. In port or under power the trick is to slide it off to one side to get it ourt of the way anyway– many awnings will accommodate this. If unrestrained convenience is your thing, you may well bear in mind that adage my dad liked to repeat about everything– 'you get what you pay for!' JC
Boom Failures
For info, many boom failures occur on mid-sheeted booms at the sheet attach point. My guess is that when the failure occurrs it's at just the wrong time. Failure will be a function of load and the number of repetitions so if the loads are light one could probably get a large number of repetitions before failure if the attach point is reasonably designed. As mentioned, mainsheet tensioning while under load is greatly increased over end of boom sheeting. Don't expect the little wife to sheet it in. On our boat I let my wife steer while I sheet the boom in as the boat passes through the eye of the wind. The downside of this method is the jib sheet doesn't usually get sheeted in fast enough.
For info, many boom failures occur on mid-sheeted booms at the sheet attach point. My guess is that when the failure occurrs it's at just the wrong time. Failure will be a function of load and the number of repetitions so if the loads are light one could probably get a large number of repetitions before failure if the attach point is reasonably designed. As mentioned, mainsheet tensioning while under load is greatly increased over end of boom sheeting. Don't expect the little wife to sheet it in. On our boat I let my wife steer while I sheet the boom in as the boat passes through the eye of the wind. The downside of this method is the jib sheet doesn't usually get sheeted in fast enough.
I'm a little confused...
Sam's question was regarding an H30, yet the replys seem to be referring to the H27. Are these boats identical? My '82 has the traveller forward of the companionway. The lead was reversed and is cleated by the engine control panel on the starboard side of the cockpit. It was originally cleated on the port side of the companionway on the cabin roof. It is hard as heck to control this line under load, requiring use of the starboard winch.
Sam's question was regarding an H30, yet the replys seem to be referring to the H27. Are these boats identical? My '82 has the traveller forward of the companionway. The lead was reversed and is cleated by the engine control panel on the starboard side of the cockpit. It was originally cleated on the port side of the companionway on the cabin roof. It is hard as heck to control this line under load, requiring use of the starboard winch.
Identical? no, but very similar
Thad, go to the boat section of this site and compare pictures of the 27 and the 30. Many years of both boats utilize a 2 block system mounted on the coach roof over the hatch way with mid boom sheeting. An arch type traveler can be mounted just a few inches forward, sheeting in the same general loction on the boom. Some arrangments use 2 bales on the boom. How hard it is to haul in the sheet will be a function of how many blocks are used. The more blocks the easier it will be, but it will also be slower and require more line. As Mr. Cherubini has indicated, an ideal for pure sailing would be a traveler with end boom sheeting, but as a cruiser, I prefer the arch/traveler over the hatch-way. My 33 has the traveler recessed at the base of the hatch-way with end boom sheeting which works well for sailing but is a little "in the way" at happy hour. Don Bodemann
Thad, go to the boat section of this site and compare pictures of the 27 and the 30. Many years of both boats utilize a 2 block system mounted on the coach roof over the hatch way with mid boom sheeting. An arch type traveler can be mounted just a few inches forward, sheeting in the same general loction on the boom. Some arrangments use 2 bales on the boom. How hard it is to haul in the sheet will be a function of how many blocks are used. The more blocks the easier it will be, but it will also be slower and require more line. As Mr. Cherubini has indicated, an ideal for pure sailing would be a traveler with end boom sheeting, but as a cruiser, I prefer the arch/traveler over the hatch-way. My 33 has the traveler recessed at the base of the hatch-way with end boom sheeting which works well for sailing but is a little "in the way" at happy hour. Don Bodemann
Suggestion for handling increased sheet loads
On Antigone, our 1978 Raider 33 which was used mainly like a glorified day racer, my father rigged a mainsheet system I'd never seen before, even though it's not that weird if you think about it. We had a traveller on the bridge deck but this would work anywhere you really have to handle a heavy load. It used then-new Haarken ball-bearing blocks yielding 6:1 purchase. The triple block on the traveller car had a cam cleat and the Kevlar ultra-low-stretch sheetline was usually handled there. The other end of the sheet did not dead-end at the boom but ran forward through standard Schaeffer 5-series blocks under the boom to about 3 ft aft of the mast, where it was led down to the deck at the base of the mast on an angle like a vang would lead. (This actually works, by the way, to suck the middle of the boom down a little more than if it was led straight to under the gooseneck and then down. It also uses a little less line.) The sheet was led back to the starboard side of the companionway where it and the two main halyards were cleated at a lever-release line stopper just before a winch at the aft edge of the cabin trunk. (The jib and spinnaker halyards were similarly led to port.) In practice we tended to use the cam cleat on the traveller a lot, but as I've mentioned before you really had to play the 170-odd-sq-ft main a lot and in the gusty spring and fall series I usually ended up sitting on the side deck with knees over the coaming, holding it by hand. The 6:1 purchase helped! –and yes, there were blisters! But in nasty stuff and especially whilst cruising it became more like 'set it and forget it', cleated fast at the cam on the traveller car and adjusted at one's leisure by the winch (Lewmar 16-ST). The increased purchase and flexibility makes handling both extremes of the mid-boom sheeting set-up easier– very fast to sheet in during light weather and less muscle needed to trim when it gets rougher. If the cockpit gets too full of line you can lead the whole length of sheet up through the blocks till only a very short end (hopefully with a stopper knot!) is sticking out of the cam cleat and the rest is coiled at the winch. Or you can do the opposite. Of course you can see that there doesn't have to be a traveller involved at all– but those who read my comments will know my opinion on that one by now. [wink] JC II
On Antigone, our 1978 Raider 33 which was used mainly like a glorified day racer, my father rigged a mainsheet system I'd never seen before, even though it's not that weird if you think about it. We had a traveller on the bridge deck but this would work anywhere you really have to handle a heavy load. It used then-new Haarken ball-bearing blocks yielding 6:1 purchase. The triple block on the traveller car had a cam cleat and the Kevlar ultra-low-stretch sheetline was usually handled there. The other end of the sheet did not dead-end at the boom but ran forward through standard Schaeffer 5-series blocks under the boom to about 3 ft aft of the mast, where it was led down to the deck at the base of the mast on an angle like a vang would lead. (This actually works, by the way, to suck the middle of the boom down a little more than if it was led straight to under the gooseneck and then down. It also uses a little less line.) The sheet was led back to the starboard side of the companionway where it and the two main halyards were cleated at a lever-release line stopper just before a winch at the aft edge of the cabin trunk. (The jib and spinnaker halyards were similarly led to port.) In practice we tended to use the cam cleat on the traveller a lot, but as I've mentioned before you really had to play the 170-odd-sq-ft main a lot and in the gusty spring and fall series I usually ended up sitting on the side deck with knees over the coaming, holding it by hand. The 6:1 purchase helped! –and yes, there were blisters! But in nasty stuff and especially whilst cruising it became more like 'set it and forget it', cleated fast at the cam on the traveller car and adjusted at one's leisure by the winch (Lewmar 16-ST). The increased purchase and flexibility makes handling both extremes of the mid-boom sheeting set-up easier– very fast to sheet in during light weather and less muscle needed to trim when it gets rougher. If the cockpit gets too full of line you can lead the whole length of sheet up through the blocks till only a very short end (hopefully with a stopper knot!) is sticking out of the cam cleat and the rest is coiled at the winch. Or you can do the opposite. Of course you can see that there doesn't have to be a traveller involved at all– but those who read my comments will know my opinion on that one by now. [wink] JC II
Thanks, Don
I guess I just don't get the whole debate here. I appreciate your response, and understand the similarities in the boats, though the setup on both the 27 and 30 appears to have changed fairly significantly over the production life of the boats. The bottom line appears to be that these are cruising boats, not racers, and placement of the hardware is a matter of form over function in all but matters of safety. I do most of my sailing single-handed, and can live with the imperfections of the setup as a compromise for having a good solo sail. The key is tuning the existing sytems to optimal performance and HAVING FUN. Happy New Year!
I guess I just don't get the whole debate here. I appreciate your response, and understand the similarities in the boats, though the setup on both the 27 and 30 appears to have changed fairly significantly over the production life of the boats. The bottom line appears to be that these are cruising boats, not racers, and placement of the hardware is a matter of form over function in all but matters of safety. I do most of my sailing single-handed, and can live with the imperfections of the setup as a compromise for having a good solo sail. The key is tuning the existing sytems to optimal performance and HAVING FUN. Happy New Year!
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