I sailed the H27 I've been asking all these questions about and you're all right - she's faster and points much farter than predicted (for a cruiser). I have noticed one thing though, Mast Step: Deck depressed about a half an inch on the deck uniformly radiating into a slope an inch around the step. All's hard there, no mushy core. Is this design? The compression post shows no damage and there is no evidence of water leaking around the mast step (although every porthole and both hatches leak). Water Pump: Leaks constantly and the owner recommded to have a bushing machined into the pump body and replace the impeller. Anyone done this? Makes more sense to replace the unit. Anyone know were to get one? Stuffing Box: Leaks about a drop every three seconds. Way too much from what I'm reading. Water on the Sole: The two hour sail collected about a gal of water on the sole. I'm told that it's from the water pump and prop shaft. Any experience on these items, particularly the mast step and water pump, would be appreciated. I'v been all over this site and haven't found any mention of the looks-designed-slope around the step. Nor have I been able to locate a water pump. Thanks guys. By the way, she sailed like a dream. A little weather helm, but that's almost always sail trim. Michael
78 H27 mast step depression normal?
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Been there!
I've had a couple of your problems myself, so here are short responses. I strongly recommend searching the archives, since some sobjects have been covered in detail in the past. The depression of your mast step results from wood core in the deck and or step rotted by the entry of water. Because the rot is progressive, I recommend you fix this one right away. The technique is to take up the fiberglass of the step, and the deck underneath over the depressed area, remove all the rotted wood, scooping back under the deck as necessary, and then replacing the wood (I used aluminum, others have used epoxy) as you rebuild the fiberglass of the deck and step. Check the archives, searching for "mast step." You can do this repair yourself, if you have the time and inclination. The step will be better than new when you are done. By the way, water leaking into the deck can go anywhere under the liner, so no water by the compression post doesn't really mean much. I'd get on the water pump right away. First, I would turn off the intake valve when not using the engine (after taping a sign at the starter key slot to avoid starting it dry!). "Leaking constantly" sounds like a significant leak, and could easily get you in serious trouble. Then I'd replace the pump right away. Max Boring is one supplier. There is a recent discussion of diesel support suppliers in the archives. The standard for the stuffing box is a few drops a minute when running the prop, and none at rest. If tightening the packing nut does not slow the drip, then replacing the packing is an easy (if awkward) maintenance job. Search the archives for "stuffing box." I'll bet this is the cause of the water on the sole. Leaky hatches and ports/windows. Lot's of good archive discussions on this. We replaced our trapezoidal forward hatch at the same time as we repaired the mast step, and then resurfaced the cabin top with non-skid. This repair is featured at our boat model page with a project description and pictures. Good luck with the work. As you have discovered, this boat is worth the effort! David Lady Lillie
I've had a couple of your problems myself, so here are short responses. I strongly recommend searching the archives, since some sobjects have been covered in detail in the past. The depression of your mast step results from wood core in the deck and or step rotted by the entry of water. Because the rot is progressive, I recommend you fix this one right away. The technique is to take up the fiberglass of the step, and the deck underneath over the depressed area, remove all the rotted wood, scooping back under the deck as necessary, and then replacing the wood (I used aluminum, others have used epoxy) as you rebuild the fiberglass of the deck and step. Check the archives, searching for "mast step." You can do this repair yourself, if you have the time and inclination. The step will be better than new when you are done. By the way, water leaking into the deck can go anywhere under the liner, so no water by the compression post doesn't really mean much. I'd get on the water pump right away. First, I would turn off the intake valve when not using the engine (after taping a sign at the starter key slot to avoid starting it dry!). "Leaking constantly" sounds like a significant leak, and could easily get you in serious trouble. Then I'd replace the pump right away. Max Boring is one supplier. There is a recent discussion of diesel support suppliers in the archives. The standard for the stuffing box is a few drops a minute when running the prop, and none at rest. If tightening the packing nut does not slow the drip, then replacing the packing is an easy (if awkward) maintenance job. Search the archives for "stuffing box." I'll bet this is the cause of the water on the sole. Leaky hatches and ports/windows. Lot's of good archive discussions on this. We replaced our trapezoidal forward hatch at the same time as we repaired the mast step, and then resurfaced the cabin top with non-skid. This repair is featured at our boat model page with a project description and pictures. Good luck with the work. As you have discovered, this boat is worth the effort! David Lady Lillie
Thanks, David for the information
what puzzles me is that the gel coat around the mast step is not cracked and looks like it's designed. Believe you, though. not good news.
what puzzles me is that the gel coat around the mast step is not cracked and looks like it's designed. Believe you, though. not good news.
Need someone who knows
Michael, I have had the same question concerning the mast-deck area on our 82 H27. There appears to be a "designed" depression in the area. I have checked the post and it is solid. My thought is that this is an area that needs to be inspected by someone who has done this work. I would think that the water on the sole could be identified by a process of elimination. If it is engine related it should be visually obvious. It also could be a leak in a hose/through hull that only become evident when on a particular tack. I have been there with a disconnected cockpit drain hose. Andy "Baroque"
Michael, I have had the same question concerning the mast-deck area on our 82 H27. There appears to be a "designed" depression in the area. I have checked the post and it is solid. My thought is that this is an area that needs to be inspected by someone who has done this work. I would think that the water on the sole could be identified by a process of elimination. If it is engine related it should be visually obvious. It also could be a leak in a hose/through hull that only become evident when on a particular tack. I have been there with a disconnected cockpit drain hose. Andy "Baroque"
water is easy
as David has mentioned, these are minor problems except for the water pump which will require a little more first of the list attention. Check the engine manual if you have one and go from there. The stuffing box, if anything like mine, will have 3 nuts. The middle one being the lock nut. The other 2 halves screw into eachother which creates pressure on the 'packing' to the shaft. With 2 12" monkey wrenches, this job shouldn't take more than hour at most to get it set right. If you can adjust the nuts, but cannot slow the leaks down, then the packing needs to be replaced. (shouldn't cost more than 10$ I think) The portholes in the salon (if anything like mine) are two pieces screwed together, meaning the screws on the inside pull the outer panel and subsequently the inside and outside gaskets firmly to the fiberglass. (Screw gun and tube of caulk will do the trick). My forward opening portholes with the 3 hand knobs to tighten them didn't leak there, but rather the rubber gasket between the window and screen which was easily replaced with basically anything that fits from any hardware store and is dirt cheap and takes minutes to perform. Some manufacturers claim that leaving them open for 24hrs will allow the rubber to expand and work again, but I didn't follow that path because mine had cracks and were hard to the touch. The 2 hatches leaking... Not sure if it's coming through the frame or where the plexiglass meets the outer metal work. If the leaks are through the plexiglass joint, than by laying a simple beed of clear drying caulk on top of that seem will cure the problem. If the problem is between where the hatch meets the deck, then remove the hatch and re-caulk. Of course, if it only leaks when using the hose pointed at the hatch at an angle, than the problem is where the opening portion of the hatch meets itself, you'll see a little gasket there. To make sure the maststep realling isn't leaking, dry the forward portion of the bilge before it starts to rain, after it has rained for an hour, check the forward portion and if wet, then it's leaking. The easiest cure for this is to wait for haul-out time, have the mast stepped and follow Daves advice. (I just finished doing this myself over the spring and it cost just under 600$, might be cheaper or it could cost more, I just simply don't know). I would also highly doubt that any boating manufacturer would pruposely create a puddle water that would sit around the base of the mast, so in my opinion, this cannot be by design. But if the fiberglass isn't cracked and it's not leaking, then as much you should fix it, it's something that in my opinion could probably wait till haul-out. But if you notice that you have to start re-tightening your shrouds once a week, take a peek underneath at the compression post next to the pocket door and if you can see that your salon roof is starting to flex around the post and or start to notice cracks in the gelcoat around the mastsetp outside, then I would do something right away. But dry tater chips and dry bilges make me happy
as David has mentioned, these are minor problems except for the water pump which will require a little more first of the list attention. Check the engine manual if you have one and go from there. The stuffing box, if anything like mine, will have 3 nuts. The middle one being the lock nut. The other 2 halves screw into eachother which creates pressure on the 'packing' to the shaft. With 2 12" monkey wrenches, this job shouldn't take more than hour at most to get it set right. If you can adjust the nuts, but cannot slow the leaks down, then the packing needs to be replaced. (shouldn't cost more than 10$ I think) The portholes in the salon (if anything like mine) are two pieces screwed together, meaning the screws on the inside pull the outer panel and subsequently the inside and outside gaskets firmly to the fiberglass. (Screw gun and tube of caulk will do the trick). My forward opening portholes with the 3 hand knobs to tighten them didn't leak there, but rather the rubber gasket between the window and screen which was easily replaced with basically anything that fits from any hardware store and is dirt cheap and takes minutes to perform. Some manufacturers claim that leaving them open for 24hrs will allow the rubber to expand and work again, but I didn't follow that path because mine had cracks and were hard to the touch. The 2 hatches leaking... Not sure if it's coming through the frame or where the plexiglass meets the outer metal work. If the leaks are through the plexiglass joint, than by laying a simple beed of clear drying caulk on top of that seem will cure the problem. If the problem is between where the hatch meets the deck, then remove the hatch and re-caulk. Of course, if it only leaks when using the hose pointed at the hatch at an angle, than the problem is where the opening portion of the hatch meets itself, you'll see a little gasket there. To make sure the maststep realling isn't leaking, dry the forward portion of the bilge before it starts to rain, after it has rained for an hour, check the forward portion and if wet, then it's leaking. The easiest cure for this is to wait for haul-out time, have the mast stepped and follow Daves advice. (I just finished doing this myself over the spring and it cost just under 600$, might be cheaper or it could cost more, I just simply don't know). I would also highly doubt that any boating manufacturer would pruposely create a puddle water that would sit around the base of the mast, so in my opinion, this cannot be by design. But if the fiberglass isn't cracked and it's not leaking, then as much you should fix it, it's something that in my opinion could probably wait till haul-out. But if you notice that you have to start re-tightening your shrouds once a week, take a peek underneath at the compression post next to the pocket door and if you can see that your salon roof is starting to flex around the post and or start to notice cracks in the gelcoat around the mastsetp outside, then I would do something right away. But dry tater chips and dry bilges make me happy
Thanks, Jim and Andy for the help.
The possibility of the depression in the step area seems very remote - particularly that the area is prone to water transfer into the deck. I noticed the area just as I was leaving the slip and haven't had time to look at other Hunters yet. I checked the step area the first time I was on the boat - all feels real solid. As I was walking her with the owner, we were talking about what he had modified and I asked about the depression. He didn't know either. Such an odd thing. I had the price reduced to $6k and she comes with a hatch-mounted AC, auto tiller, compas. Roller 110 jib and a 'custom' mainsail which looks too small for the area. The jib feels too small judging by the heavy weather helm. I just don't know. So much work. I didn't want a 'project' boat - been there. Too much time working on her rather than sail. Is $6,000 too much for this? Seems so to me. Just wonder about the value here. *0 My feeling is to hold and keep looking. You guys just rave about your boats. Michael
The possibility of the depression in the step area seems very remote - particularly that the area is prone to water transfer into the deck. I noticed the area just as I was leaving the slip and haven't had time to look at other Hunters yet. I checked the step area the first time I was on the boat - all feels real solid. As I was walking her with the owner, we were talking about what he had modified and I asked about the depression. He didn't know either. Such an odd thing. I had the price reduced to $6k and she comes with a hatch-mounted AC, auto tiller, compas. Roller 110 jib and a 'custom' mainsail which looks too small for the area. The jib feels too small judging by the heavy weather helm. I just don't know. So much work. I didn't want a 'project' boat - been there. Too much time working on her rather than sail. Is $6,000 too much for this? Seems so to me. Just wonder about the value here. *0 My feeling is to hold and keep looking. You guys just rave about your boats. Michael
Mast step depression
No I have not had it checked beyond the survey 4 years ago. Our marina is a hunter dealer and the folks who own the place, or other hunter owners have never noticed anything out of the ordinary. The area has a slight slope very symetrical. It looks as if it belongs. I have looked at other cherub. hunters but due to the variation between model years it does not answer a lot of questions. The compression post is solid although stained but I think that is to be expected considering the age. There has been water in the cabin. The bulkhead is slightly askew. Another commentator has suggested this is a sign of post problems and that may be but it also could be just part of the aging/use process.I have considered taking the mast down at the end of the season. The anchor light worked for ten seconds after the first time I turned it on, and a masthead VHF ant. is not a bad idea. This would be a good time to gain some piece of mind with the mast compression situation. I might add my 2 cents to the price question. It seems fair, but like you, I want to sail and not spend hours in unnatural positions calling for the other wrench. Sailing should be happy time and if the boat promises too much unhappy pass it by. Yes, there is always something but can it wait for a lousy sailing day? A thought I might add although it expands the subject. Am I alone in trying to simplify my boat rather than add more gadgets and comforts? Andy
No I have not had it checked beyond the survey 4 years ago. Our marina is a hunter dealer and the folks who own the place, or other hunter owners have never noticed anything out of the ordinary. The area has a slight slope very symetrical. It looks as if it belongs. I have looked at other cherub. hunters but due to the variation between model years it does not answer a lot of questions. The compression post is solid although stained but I think that is to be expected considering the age. There has been water in the cabin. The bulkhead is slightly askew. Another commentator has suggested this is a sign of post problems and that may be but it also could be just part of the aging/use process.I have considered taking the mast down at the end of the season. The anchor light worked for ten seconds after the first time I turned it on, and a masthead VHF ant. is not a bad idea. This would be a good time to gain some piece of mind with the mast compression situation. I might add my 2 cents to the price question. It seems fair, but like you, I want to sail and not spend hours in unnatural positions calling for the other wrench. Sailing should be happy time and if the boat promises too much unhappy pass it by. Yes, there is always something but can it wait for a lousy sailing day? A thought I might add although it expands the subject. Am I alone in trying to simplify my boat rather than add more gadgets and comforts? Andy
Saw another 78 H27 last night -
or at least she had the identical composition as my prospective yacht. No indentation on the step - her deck was flat, almost with a positive curve if anything. I've talked with others about this phenomenon and reviewed different ideas. The common consensus seems to be that all other things considered - all the water in the cabin, the head door off plumb, etc. - that the evidence points towards the deck being soft, possibly from the rigging being too tight, or water decomposition of the deck core, or a combination of both. At any event, because she was already at the point in my mind right at the line of being more work than sail, I passed her by. With decades of rebuilding cars, houses, and relationships as a result - I've learned that although I can 'fix' anything given enough time, is that what I really want to do? Nope, I want to sail. Rub a little here, there, tweak this, straighten that. As for a project boat . . . not today. Thanks for the help, it has been positive and will be applied to another Hunter (fine boats) I'm looking into, a '77 H30. Beautiful and powerful looking with flair of grace for such a large hull. I'm sure there'll be more questions and I'll continue to add what experience I can here. You all have been incredibly helpful and very welcoming. Perhaps the best thing about looking into the H27 was meeting all of you. Friendly, knowledgeable, and most of all, very interested. Michael
or at least she had the identical composition as my prospective yacht. No indentation on the step - her deck was flat, almost with a positive curve if anything. I've talked with others about this phenomenon and reviewed different ideas. The common consensus seems to be that all other things considered - all the water in the cabin, the head door off plumb, etc. - that the evidence points towards the deck being soft, possibly from the rigging being too tight, or water decomposition of the deck core, or a combination of both. At any event, because she was already at the point in my mind right at the line of being more work than sail, I passed her by. With decades of rebuilding cars, houses, and relationships as a result - I've learned that although I can 'fix' anything given enough time, is that what I really want to do? Nope, I want to sail. Rub a little here, there, tweak this, straighten that. As for a project boat . . . not today. Thanks for the help, it has been positive and will be applied to another Hunter (fine boats) I'm looking into, a '77 H30. Beautiful and powerful looking with flair of grace for such a large hull. I'm sure there'll be more questions and I'll continue to add what experience I can here. You all have been incredibly helpful and very welcoming. Perhaps the best thing about looking into the H27 was meeting all of you. Friendly, knowledgeable, and most of all, very interested. Michael
sounds like the prudent thing to do
I have looked at Cherub 27s of that year and the mast base is indeed a flat surface. I am hoping the configuration on my boat is a result of design changes not a problem. We will see. I think you are on target with a 30. The price on average is not that much more for more boat. Do, however, check the archives and other info on this site as well as talking to other owners. I seem to remember a lot of traffic concerning "peculiarities" of that boat. Also, I must mention that David and I are lake sailors. Having visited your part of the country last year, I quickly realized that the saltwater environment presents a different set of concerns. I felt if I moved Baroque to the St. Marks area I would quickly be looking at rewiring, not one of my strengths. I am probably preaching to the choir but an hour of research probably saves a day or a week of frustration. Good Luck! Andy
I have looked at Cherub 27s of that year and the mast base is indeed a flat surface. I am hoping the configuration on my boat is a result of design changes not a problem. We will see. I think you are on target with a 30. The price on average is not that much more for more boat. Do, however, check the archives and other info on this site as well as talking to other owners. I seem to remember a lot of traffic concerning "peculiarities" of that boat. Also, I must mention that David and I are lake sailors. Having visited your part of the country last year, I quickly realized that the saltwater environment presents a different set of concerns. I felt if I moved Baroque to the St. Marks area I would quickly be looking at rewiring, not one of my strengths. I am probably preaching to the choir but an hour of research probably saves a day or a week of frustration. Good Luck! Andy
A lot more boat
for only three more feet. Amazing the difference! Funny how, though, boats shrink as you take them farther from shore. In the slip they're all so big. I'll check the archives for more info. Already haveing read the owner's comments on this site, this model will certainly handle differently than the 27 - which seems like the perfect sized boat. Michael
for only three more feet. Amazing the difference! Funny how, though, boats shrink as you take them farther from shore. In the slip they're all so big. I'll check the archives for more info. Already haveing read the owner's comments on this site, this model will certainly handle differently than the 27 - which seems like the perfect sized boat. Michael
Moisture check
Rather than wondering if there is a problem, ask someone of they could check the moisture level in the deck around the mast step.
Rather than wondering if there is a problem, ask someone of they could check the moisture level in the deck around the mast step.
Check rudder post coupling
After several years of living with water in the bilge, I discovered there was a loose coupling on the rudder post. This bronze coupling (sleeve?) beneath the cockpit, is accessible through the stern locker if you don't mind crawling in upside down. Tie a line to your 7/16-inch box wrench -- very easy to drop into the bilge and hard to retrieve. There are three bolts to tighten. A friendlier access to this is to remove the side panel next to the aft berth. Reason it took so long to discover this leak point was it only happens when under way. I replaced the fresh-water pump on ours with a super-quiet model. I think it was around $100 from Boat US or West Marine. Since this is mounted under the V-berth it was worth the extra money for the quiet model.
After several years of living with water in the bilge, I discovered there was a loose coupling on the rudder post. This bronze coupling (sleeve?) beneath the cockpit, is accessible through the stern locker if you don't mind crawling in upside down. Tie a line to your 7/16-inch box wrench -- very easy to drop into the bilge and hard to retrieve. There are three bolts to tighten. A friendlier access to this is to remove the side panel next to the aft berth. Reason it took so long to discover this leak point was it only happens when under way. I replaced the fresh-water pump on ours with a super-quiet model. I think it was around $100 from Boat US or West Marine. Since this is mounted under the V-berth it was worth the extra money for the quiet model.
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