3m 4000

jeepbluetj · Mar 10, 2022

Dang. I hope the new stuff lasts. I recently bedded my anchor roller with it and it was a massive job (Had to remove the headstay). I do not want to do it again.

Hayden Watson · Mar 10, 2022

I used 4000UV last year to bed my new seacock thru-hulls.

I figured that it was a good choice after comparing the specs on 4200. 4000uv and 5200. All three are rated for underwater and the 4000 had about twice the adhesion of the 4200 and 2/3's that of 5200. sort of a middle of the road choice between easy to remove and can't remove without Dynamite.

Kingjim91 · Mar 10, 2022

higgs said:
Practical Sailor is reporting 3m 4000 is failing after several years. 3m say the product was reformulated in 2018.
PS Seeking Reports of 3M 4000 UV Failure - Practical Sailor (practical-sailor.com)

I saw that article this week, too. It’s a reprint from several years ago. I hope the new formula is what’s available now, because I just re-glazed 2 ports with it!

Bob J. · Mar 11, 2022

Kingjim91 said:
I saw that article this week, too. It’s a reprint from several years ago. I hope the new formula is what’s available now, because I just re-glazed 2 ports with it!

I used 4200 to bed my cabin windows five years ago. They've faired poorly. It's on my spring to do list this year...

thinwater · Mar 11, 2022

Kingjim91 said:
I saw that article this week, too. It’s a reprint from several years ago. I hope the new formula is what’s available now, because I just re-glazed 2 ports with it!

No, it is not a reprint. The article is current. The materials did take several years to fail.

I had samples on test racks, and the 4000 UV samples suddenly turned to goo after a certain number of years of looking perfect. it is a failure known as reversion. There have also been a number of reader reports, and reports on other forums.

It is not knowable if the reformulation solved the problem. That will take some time. Obviously, 3M has other formulations that are well proven.

3M 4000UV is NOT rated for glazing, not even by 3M. Frames to the hull, OK, but not to hold the lens in. The most common recomendation for that is Dow 795.

thinwater · Mar 11, 2022

Bob J. said:
I used 4200 to bed my cabin windows five years ago. They've faired poorly. It's on my spring to do list this year...

Glazing or bedding frames? What is the failure?

thinwater · Mar 11, 2022

Hayden Watson said:
I used 4000UV last year to bed my new seacock thru-hulls.

I figured that it was a good choice after comparing the specs on 4200. 4000uv and 5200. All three are rated for underwater and the 4000 had about twice the adhesion of the 4200 and 2/3's that of 5200. sort of a middle of the road choice between easy to remove and can't remove without Dynamite.

The problem seems to be related to moisture more than UV... so I would check on them. And use Sika 291 next time.

Bob J. · Mar 11, 2022

thinwater said:
Glazing or bedding frames? What is the failure?

The fixed frames. Started weeping a couple years ago. The opening ports I did with Lifecaulk have held up fine. Go figure.

Hayden Watson · Mar 11, 2022

thinwater said:
The problem seems to be related to moisture more than UV... so I would check on them. And use Sika 291 next time.

Dang!

I was hoping that it was UV causing the problem because mine is where the sun don't shine. I typically only pull Papillon when I need to reapply bottom paint and my Trinidad lasts me 8-9 years before she sprouts a crop of mussels. Is this something that needs to be addressed immediately? Don't want to sink my girl.

Hayden Watson · Mar 11, 2022

thinwater said:
No, it is not a reprint. The article is current. The materials did take several years to fail.

I had samples on test racks, and the 4000 UV samples suddenly turned to goo after a certain number of years of looking perfect. it is a failure known as reversion. There have also been a number of reader reports, and reports on other forums.

It is not knowable if the reformulation solved the problem. That will take some time. Obviously, 3M has other formulations that are well proven.

3M 4000UV is NOT rated for glazing, not even by 3M. Frames to the hull, OK, but not to hold the lens in. The most common recommendation for that is Dow 795.

@thinwater Are you the author of the PS article? I always check the expiration date and my 4000UV was fresh when installed last fall so it should be the "new formula" correct? Given that the thru-hulls are clamped to the hull, it seams like at worst case I would get some small leaks even if it reverts to goo, yes? I also installed a new LastDrop lip seal and my bilge is dry for the first time ever so I would notice if it starts to leak. I am thinking that this is not cause for an emergency haulout to rebed the thru-hulls.

thinwater · Mar 11, 2022

Hayden Watson said:
@thinwater Are you the author of the PS article? I always check the expiration date and my 4000UV was fresh when installed last fall so it should be the "new formula" correct? Given that the thru-hulls are clamped to the hull, it seams like at worst case I would get some small leaks even if it reverts to goo, yes? I also installed a new LastDrop lip seal and my bilge is dry for the first time ever so I would notice if it starts to leak. I am thinking that this is not cause for an emergency haulout to rebed the thru-hulls.

I was told by 3M that they reformulated in late 2018. FWIW, but this is probably in the past. It was very strange, how it was the best, most UV resistant product for 4 years... and then suddenly it changed.

I would not have a stroke about through hulls. Non-drying putty would probably stop the leaks, and at most it will seep. But keep an eye, as always. If it feels gummy, like tar, then move faster.

Hayden Watson · Mar 11, 2022

thinwater said:
I was told by 3M that they reformulated in late 2018. FWIW, but this is probably in the past. It was very strange, how it was the best, most UV resistant product for 4 years... and then suddenly it changed.

I would not have a stroke about through hulls. Non-drying putty would probably stop the leaks, and at most it will seep. But keep an eye, as always. If it feels gummy, like tar, then move faster.

Thanks and I will assume that by "move faster" you meant that if I see them start to weep, I should begin to think about when it would be convenient to haulout and rebed them rather than to assume that you meant "Move the boat as fast as possible toward the nearest beach to run it aground before it sinks out from under me!!!!!"

thinwater · Mar 12, 2022

Hayden Watson said:
Thanks and I will assume that by "move faster" you meant that if I see them start to weep, I should begin to think about when it would be convenient to haulout and rebed them rather than to assume that you meant "Move the boat as fast as possible toward the nearest beach to run it aground before it sinks out from under me!!!!!"

Coincidence has it that I was just digging around, setting up for another round of tests, including 4000 UV among many other types of adhesives.

I found the 5-year old test samples that had been used for strength testing, including an extra set. I thought this had all been discarded, but I had made up a lot of extra test coupons and just piled it all in a bx. These had not been in the sun, and there was no deterioration at all. None. So without UV, I wouldn't worry about the thru-hull. The reversion is thought to be triggered by UV, and there is none underwater.

Cheers!