One recent poster on this board said, "I think if you are trying to decide between 350 and 36, it depends on what you are looking for in your boat." That made me curious. For those of you who are familiar with both boats, if you were a dealer, for which people would you recommend the 36, and for which would you recommend the 350?
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George
350 vs 36MKII
I looked at both the 350 & the 36 MKII pretty hard before making a decision. If you are not too concerned with sailing performance and you want to save a little money, a used 36MKII is a good value. However, I wanted a little more peformance in my cruiser so I considered the tall rig for the larger sail area w/ a fin keel. A late model of this style is hard to come by and in all cases, a late model 36MKII was not that less expensive than a new 350. The 350 fin keel is a heck of a cruising boat with good sailing performance. Slightly better than the 36MKII with the TM & fin. The 13ft beam on the 350 is a foot wider than the 36 and provides a lot of breathing room for two kids & two adults. The resale value of the 350 has to be stronger than the 36 given its newer design and smaller population.
I looked at both the 350 & the 36 MKII pretty hard before making a decision. If you are not too concerned with sailing performance and you want to save a little money, a used 36MKII is a good value. However, I wanted a little more peformance in my cruiser so I considered the tall rig for the larger sail area w/ a fin keel. A late model of this style is hard to come by and in all cases, a late model 36MKII was not that less expensive than a new 350. The 350 fin keel is a heck of a cruising boat with good sailing performance. Slightly better than the 36MKII with the TM & fin. The 13ft beam on the 350 is a foot wider than the 36 and provides a lot of breathing room for two kids & two adults. The resale value of the 350 has to be stronger than the 36 given its newer design and smaller population.
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Chic Lasser
350 vs 36
Without a doubt the 350 has more modern systems than the 36. Better access to water, hoses, electric wiring. As for the boat I am told the 350 sails very nice as a 36 owner I can tell you first hand it sails very nice with a supper balanced feel to it. We looked at the 350 before deciding on a 36. Our reasons were very personal, just the two of us and liked the layout much better with significantly more storage for stuff. Since adding shelves and some redesign work we can carry enough to live aboard in the summer easily. Essentially, We were not happy with the forward berth, I am 6'2" and there was not enough room for two pillows up front for us to sleep the way we wanted. If you were shorter could probably make it work by bringing the pillows down. We had other issues, such as windage and the need for a below deck autopilot and the added cost. With all this said I am sure that the 350 is a nice boat. Keep in mind that NO BOAT IS PERFECT and you are going to make some sacrifices, like we gave up the stall shower we wanted, but got the bulkhead mounted table. Good luck, my suggestion is to go out and sail both, amd most importantly do what a friend shared with us. Get in the boat with your wife (no broker or owner) and spend a couple of hours just poking around both boats, the right one will feel JUST RIGHT.
Without a doubt the 350 has more modern systems than the 36. Better access to water, hoses, electric wiring. As for the boat I am told the 350 sails very nice as a 36 owner I can tell you first hand it sails very nice with a supper balanced feel to it. We looked at the 350 before deciding on a 36. Our reasons were very personal, just the two of us and liked the layout much better with significantly more storage for stuff. Since adding shelves and some redesign work we can carry enough to live aboard in the summer easily. Essentially, We were not happy with the forward berth, I am 6'2" and there was not enough room for two pillows up front for us to sleep the way we wanted. If you were shorter could probably make it work by bringing the pillows down. We had other issues, such as windage and the need for a below deck autopilot and the added cost. With all this said I am sure that the 350 is a nice boat. Keep in mind that NO BOAT IS PERFECT and you are going to make some sacrifices, like we gave up the stall shower we wanted, but got the bulkhead mounted table. Good luck, my suggestion is to go out and sail both, amd most importantly do what a friend shared with us. Get in the boat with your wife (no broker or owner) and spend a couple of hours just poking around both boats, the right one will feel JUST RIGHT.
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Chris Gonzales
I got the 36. A 1987 36!
Ken, My wife and I decided we wanted to buy a new boat to enjoy sailing on the bay and also to live aboard about 40% of the time. We saw the 350 at Sail Expo in Oakland and REALLY like it. We even went as far as to visit the factory in Largo. The 36 was impressive from the standpoint of storage and the decision was difficult to make when comparing it with the new features of the 350 such as the elec head, shower stall, galley area, wide beam, etc. Then we found a USED 36. A pre "sugar scoop" stern 1987. This boat was virtually new since she had been a fresh water boat her entire sailing life. Because of the "older" styling she had even more space in the aft berth area and more in the salon. There were trade offs because of the smaller diesel engine and a few other things the boat did not come with at that time that the newer 36's did. We loved the real teak interior and the price, about 50% less than new. I agree with an earlier post. If the boat feels right you will know after spending some time with the spouse in it. Chris
Ken, My wife and I decided we wanted to buy a new boat to enjoy sailing on the bay and also to live aboard about 40% of the time. We saw the 350 at Sail Expo in Oakland and REALLY like it. We even went as far as to visit the factory in Largo. The 36 was impressive from the standpoint of storage and the decision was difficult to make when comparing it with the new features of the 350 such as the elec head, shower stall, galley area, wide beam, etc. Then we found a USED 36. A pre "sugar scoop" stern 1987. This boat was virtually new since she had been a fresh water boat her entire sailing life. Because of the "older" styling she had even more space in the aft berth area and more in the salon. There were trade offs because of the smaller diesel engine and a few other things the boat did not come with at that time that the newer 36's did. We loved the real teak interior and the price, about 50% less than new. I agree with an earlier post. If the boat feels right you will know after spending some time with the spouse in it. Chris
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cmhyland
New C36 vs old C36
Chris, The older C36 without the sugar scoop stern does not carry as much beam aft as the new... I'm not sure how the aft cabin can be larger in the older boat... As for the 350 I looked at the boat when it came out, #1 at sail expo in Atlantic City. The boat has some nice features. Over all I was not impressed with it as an "Update" to the aging C36 if that's what it supposed to be. Don't get me wrong it's nice but I see things in that boat I don't care for... I love the additional waterline length. She carries a little too much beam to please my eye as well as additional windage. Much of the additional space in the salon is useless. Splitting any boat down the centerline and adding a foot really doesn't buy you anything unless it's required in the hull form for handling. The cockpit is fantastic, tons of room. As for resale, the older "Classic" designs of the C30, C34, C36 and C42 and the older C38 hold value very very well, in some cases going for more than they cost new. I'm not saying the newer designs won't do that, just that the data isn't in yet on them. Regards, Chris
Chris, The older C36 without the sugar scoop stern does not carry as much beam aft as the new... I'm not sure how the aft cabin can be larger in the older boat... As for the 350 I looked at the boat when it came out, #1 at sail expo in Atlantic City. The boat has some nice features. Over all I was not impressed with it as an "Update" to the aging C36 if that's what it supposed to be. Don't get me wrong it's nice but I see things in that boat I don't care for... I love the additional waterline length. She carries a little too much beam to please my eye as well as additional windage. Much of the additional space in the salon is useless. Splitting any boat down the centerline and adding a foot really doesn't buy you anything unless it's required in the hull form for handling. The cockpit is fantastic, tons of room. As for resale, the older "Classic" designs of the C30, C34, C36 and C42 and the older C38 hold value very very well, in some cases going for more than they cost new. I'm not saying the newer designs won't do that, just that the data isn't in yet on them. Regards, Chris
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Chic Lasser
350/36 Performance
Interesting observation: I was looking a base phrf rating for a friends boat and stumbled on the galvestan bay PHRF site. The C36 has a base phrf of 144 while the base of C36 is 141. This sort of puts in question the better performance of the 350 with more beam carried aft. Talked to my PHRF delegate and he says his info is the same for base boats with a 135 headsail. Obviously, headsail size and spinnaker size impact the rating.
Interesting observation: I was looking a base phrf rating for a friends boat and stumbled on the galvestan bay PHRF site. The C36 has a base phrf of 144 while the base of C36 is 141. This sort of puts in question the better performance of the 350 with more beam carried aft. Talked to my PHRF delegate and he says his info is the same for base boats with a 135 headsail. Obviously, headsail size and spinnaker size impact the rating.
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Ivana
350 v/s 36
I wrote about the performance of my 350 during the Delmarva cruising ralley last spring. In the article I wrote, I noted we literally BLEW past a C36 in the ralley in the Chesapeake Bay in 35 knots of wind and again during the ocean portion in 20 to 25 knots of wind. I have the furling main and 135 headsail. The C36 was left in our wake as was almost ALL the other boats in the ralley except the boats 40 feet or more. We held our own with a Beneteau 38. I am not a racing sailer and sailed with a cruising crew. We will be doing Bermuda this coming year.
I wrote about the performance of my 350 during the Delmarva cruising ralley last spring. In the article I wrote, I noted we literally BLEW past a C36 in the ralley in the Chesapeake Bay in 35 knots of wind and again during the ocean portion in 20 to 25 knots of wind. I have the furling main and 135 headsail. The C36 was left in our wake as was almost ALL the other boats in the ralley except the boats 40 feet or more. We held our own with a Beneteau 38. I am not a racing sailer and sailed with a cruising crew. We will be doing Bermuda this coming year.
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Tom S.
Ivana, How do we know that the C36 skipper
Knew what he was doing? I like the C350, and I think its a decent sailing boat. But I have seen it sailing along side with me a few times on LI sound and I didn't see that it was faster. Here is my challenge. Whenever you ever get up through NY harbor or LI Sound, lets do a little race. The only time I think a C350 might be faster is when the winds would be light, maybe under 9 knots as I would believe the higher Sa/D of the C350 would make a difference, after that I don't think a C350 would walk away from a C36
Knew what he was doing? I like the C350, and I think its a decent sailing boat. But I have seen it sailing along side with me a few times on LI sound and I didn't see that it was faster. Here is my challenge. Whenever you ever get up through NY harbor or LI Sound, lets do a little race. The only time I think a C350 might be faster is when the winds would be light, maybe under 9 knots as I would believe the higher Sa/D of the C350 would make a difference, after that I don't think a C350 would walk away from a C36
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Tom S.
Ken Cobb to your original question
(Attention this is long) I posted this a long time ago when the C350 first came out. I have the C36MKII ('99 vintage) and I love the boat and I spent quite a lot of time on the C350 at the AC expo. Here are my observations and comparisons of the 2 boats.....obviously this is NOT a complete or exhaustive comparison, but a start of a few things to discuss. Looks -- (Purely subjective and my own opinion) Advantage C36MKII -- Though the C350 is not a lot different and looks very similar,its not as pretty due to the 'apparent' higher freeboard and wider stern it is starting to look alot like a BAB (Big Aft Boat).....though due to very good use of windows and design they don't look too bad. Cockpit Layout -- Advantage C350 Very similar in many ways but I give the edge to the C350 due to the fact that Genny Winches are back next to the helm and make it easier for the skipper to singlehand & trim sheets without turning on the autopilot and going forward like on the C36MKII. Plus they have the sheet bags up on the coachroof not on the bulkhead, thus allowing passengers leaning up against the bulkhead not having to be against all the lines. Lazerrette storage -- Big Advantage C350 Due to the wide stern the C350 is able to have an absolutely huge lazerrete on the boat. I think you could fit 10 Cubans down there. That is one thing I miss on the C36MKII, It would be great for things like a cruising spinnaker which In have to keep somewhere below. Salon -- Advantage C36MKII I think this is no contest. Just the volume is greater, plus the capability of the C36MKII to put the dining table up out of the way, down or all the way down to make a huge romper room bed area is great. Plus I think the layout and the openness and the ability to watch TV or socialize is superior. I think the C350 is nice, but the space is skewed on an angle, and I don't love the salon table on it. Plus if you owned a C36 and then a C350 you would *really* miss the 4 louvered lockers in the Salon. The C350 has no real side storage, just a wider visual area. BTW, the reason the space in the salon of the C350 is skewed and smaller is because the C350 has a separate shower stall, which leads us to.......---->>> Head -- Advantage C350 It has a separate shower stall -- 'nuff said. That would be enough, but it also has an electric head with macerator built in that is "supposed" to fill up the holding tank slower than a manual pump head...that remains to be seen, plus I have heard issues with the high outside head tank. Holding Tank -- Still up for analysis. You would think it would be the C350. Listed the C350 is supposed to be 22 gallons (effective holding tank area is still in question) as compared to the 17 gallons that the C36MKII has. Main berth -- Advantage C350 Innerspring mattress and walk around bed -- Also at the expense of a smaller salon area and higher freeboard needed. Galley -- Tie ? The C350 has the "refrigerator door" down low that opens outward that makes it easy to retrieve things from the bottom of the refrigerator. Also makes it easier for kids to get stuff (at the expense of losing some colder air?). But I "like" the C36MKII galley right at the bottom of the stairs. It makes it very easy to throw garbage, bottles and cans right into the sink down the companionway..;-) Windage/Freeboard -- Big Advantage C36MKII Though Gerry Douglas said at the AC show that freeboard of the C350 is the same as the C36MKII, I was just at the NJ/NY Sail Expo and there is no doubt that the C350 has a lot more "volume" of windage available above the waterline than the C36MKII. This will matter somewhat when docking or pointing into the wind. Also, it is going to be a lot easier to step onto the boat off the dock and I believe the C350 will need steps for the "vertically challenged" out there. Sailing in Light Air - I have to believe the advantage goes C350, all indications (D/SA, etc) point to this being a faster boat in light winds....(to be seen) Sailing in Heavy Air and following seas - I would think the advantage goes to the C36MKII The C36MKII is a surprisingly capable boat in heavy air. In fact it likes to really run in winds above 15kts, much more than in winds below 7kts. Being a heavier boat and a more traditional hull, tends to make me believe that it would also be more comfortable in sustained heavy winds and following seas....the wider aft of the C350 predicates that the stern will lift and shift with the seas a bit more Deck features - Plus C36MKII - Outside Toerail for outside Genny Track (The AC C350 did not have this) Plus C350 - Split Anchor locker and dual Anchor rollers Plus C36MKII - Level side decks (though it could be argued that the angled decks on the C350 allow a more level surface when going forward on the weather side when the boat is heeling) Plus C350 - opening lockers in the Sugar Scoop transom (due to the fact that the stern is so much wider) Misc. -- there are a lot of new little gizmo's that the C350 has. Not that they are that big a deal, and you might not even like them, but it was nice of Catalina to incorporate into the boat.--->>> Water manifold -- All Fresh water is fed into a single manifold then to the plumbing. This allows isolation of plumbing circuits in case there is a leak or fault with one faucet or something.
(Attention this is long) I posted this a long time ago when the C350 first came out. I have the C36MKII ('99 vintage) and I love the boat and I spent quite a lot of time on the C350 at the AC expo. Here are my observations and comparisons of the 2 boats.....obviously this is NOT a complete or exhaustive comparison, but a start of a few things to discuss. Looks -- (Purely subjective and my own opinion) Advantage C36MKII -- Though the C350 is not a lot different and looks very similar,its not as pretty due to the 'apparent' higher freeboard and wider stern it is starting to look alot like a BAB (Big Aft Boat).....though due to very good use of windows and design they don't look too bad. Cockpit Layout -- Advantage C350 Very similar in many ways but I give the edge to the C350 due to the fact that Genny Winches are back next to the helm and make it easier for the skipper to singlehand & trim sheets without turning on the autopilot and going forward like on the C36MKII. Plus they have the sheet bags up on the coachroof not on the bulkhead, thus allowing passengers leaning up against the bulkhead not having to be against all the lines. Lazerrette storage -- Big Advantage C350 Due to the wide stern the C350 is able to have an absolutely huge lazerrete on the boat. I think you could fit 10 Cubans down there. That is one thing I miss on the C36MKII, It would be great for things like a cruising spinnaker which In have to keep somewhere below. Salon -- Advantage C36MKII I think this is no contest. Just the volume is greater, plus the capability of the C36MKII to put the dining table up out of the way, down or all the way down to make a huge romper room bed area is great. Plus I think the layout and the openness and the ability to watch TV or socialize is superior. I think the C350 is nice, but the space is skewed on an angle, and I don't love the salon table on it. Plus if you owned a C36 and then a C350 you would *really* miss the 4 louvered lockers in the Salon. The C350 has no real side storage, just a wider visual area. BTW, the reason the space in the salon of the C350 is skewed and smaller is because the C350 has a separate shower stall, which leads us to.......---->>> Head -- Advantage C350 It has a separate shower stall -- 'nuff said. That would be enough, but it also has an electric head with macerator built in that is "supposed" to fill up the holding tank slower than a manual pump head...that remains to be seen, plus I have heard issues with the high outside head tank. Holding Tank -- Still up for analysis. You would think it would be the C350. Listed the C350 is supposed to be 22 gallons (effective holding tank area is still in question) as compared to the 17 gallons that the C36MKII has. Main berth -- Advantage C350 Innerspring mattress and walk around bed -- Also at the expense of a smaller salon area and higher freeboard needed. Galley -- Tie ? The C350 has the "refrigerator door" down low that opens outward that makes it easy to retrieve things from the bottom of the refrigerator. Also makes it easier for kids to get stuff (at the expense of losing some colder air?). But I "like" the C36MKII galley right at the bottom of the stairs. It makes it very easy to throw garbage, bottles and cans right into the sink down the companionway..;-) Windage/Freeboard -- Big Advantage C36MKII Though Gerry Douglas said at the AC show that freeboard of the C350 is the same as the C36MKII, I was just at the NJ/NY Sail Expo and there is no doubt that the C350 has a lot more "volume" of windage available above the waterline than the C36MKII. This will matter somewhat when docking or pointing into the wind. Also, it is going to be a lot easier to step onto the boat off the dock and I believe the C350 will need steps for the "vertically challenged" out there. Sailing in Light Air - I have to believe the advantage goes C350, all indications (D/SA, etc) point to this being a faster boat in light winds....(to be seen) Sailing in Heavy Air and following seas - I would think the advantage goes to the C36MKII The C36MKII is a surprisingly capable boat in heavy air. In fact it likes to really run in winds above 15kts, much more than in winds below 7kts. Being a heavier boat and a more traditional hull, tends to make me believe that it would also be more comfortable in sustained heavy winds and following seas....the wider aft of the C350 predicates that the stern will lift and shift with the seas a bit more Deck features - Plus C36MKII - Outside Toerail for outside Genny Track (The AC C350 did not have this) Plus C350 - Split Anchor locker and dual Anchor rollers Plus C36MKII - Level side decks (though it could be argued that the angled decks on the C350 allow a more level surface when going forward on the weather side when the boat is heeling) Plus C350 - opening lockers in the Sugar Scoop transom (due to the fact that the stern is so much wider) Misc. -- there are a lot of new little gizmo's that the C350 has. Not that they are that big a deal, and you might not even like them, but it was nice of Catalina to incorporate into the boat.--->>> Water manifold -- All Fresh water is fed into a single manifold then to the plumbing. This allows isolation of plumbing circuits in case there is a leak or fault with one faucet or something.
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Andy
me too.. blew past c-36 in race
Not that it matters .... Your boat is your boat and I hope that what ever boat you have you enjoy it to the fullest. I have sailed past many C- 36 models off shore and in Chesepeake Bay. But hey.. maybe skipper and crew have a litte somthin' to do with it too? All the best.
Not that it matters .... Your boat is your boat and I hope that what ever boat you have you enjoy it to the fullest. I have sailed past many C- 36 models off shore and in Chesepeake Bay. But hey.. maybe skipper and crew have a litte somthin' to do with it too? All the best.
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Chic Lasser
Interesting Thoughts
Tom, very well written and thoughtout. I do have one issue to add to your analysis. That is the that the Centerline forward berth is only a single berth. We looked very seriously at the 350 and the two deciding factors against it were a worthless forward berth. 27" wide at the bow will barely fit one pillow let a lone two. Put the pilows aft and they fall off the bed. Very poor design, this non feature means the couple goes aft and the rest sleep in undersized berths. The second issue was the need to use a below deck autopilot vs a 4000. Granted the 5000 is better but for us and the way we use our boat the 4000 is all that is necessary. On the 36 it is your choice which way you go, not made for you.
Tom, very well written and thoughtout. I do have one issue to add to your analysis. That is the that the Centerline forward berth is only a single berth. We looked very seriously at the 350 and the two deciding factors against it were a worthless forward berth. 27" wide at the bow will barely fit one pillow let a lone two. Put the pilows aft and they fall off the bed. Very poor design, this non feature means the couple goes aft and the rest sleep in undersized berths. The second issue was the need to use a below deck autopilot vs a 4000. Granted the 5000 is better but for us and the way we use our boat the 4000 is all that is necessary. On the 36 it is your choice which way you go, not made for you.
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RSM
350 Forward Berth
My husband and I have a 350 and enjoy her immensely. I am puzzled by the folks who say the forward berth is a single. Granted, I do like my bed at home better but my broad-shouldered, 6'3" husband and I sleep in the forward berth without problems. The mattress in the aft is bigger, but since I don't like tight spaces the forward berth works great. I also enjoy all the drawers in forward berth.
My husband and I have a 350 and enjoy her immensely. I am puzzled by the folks who say the forward berth is a single. Granted, I do like my bed at home better but my broad-shouldered, 6'3" husband and I sleep in the forward berth without problems. The mattress in the aft is bigger, but since I don't like tight spaces the forward berth works great. I also enjoy all the drawers in forward berth.
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Bill
Bigger than it looks
I to don't get the issue with the forward berth. Neither my wife nor I are small people and we fit fine in the forward berth. OK, its not a king, but we have tried it both ways and settled on heads forward. I do admit, I sleep with my feet hanging off the end of the bed, but I also sleep that way on a Calf. king. The upgade of the auto pilot is an issue due to the restlyed helm. I have yet to find a folding table designed for the new helm style, but it is nice to have all the guages right there, neat, clean, organized. As far as storage, we took week + trips with six, loaded supplies to the point where we were low on our lines and everything had a place. The storage in the back is tremendous. Abridged version, we love it.
I to don't get the issue with the forward berth. Neither my wife nor I are small people and we fit fine in the forward berth. OK, its not a king, but we have tried it both ways and settled on heads forward. I do admit, I sleep with my feet hanging off the end of the bed, but I also sleep that way on a Calf. king. The upgade of the auto pilot is an issue due to the restlyed helm. I have yet to find a folding table designed for the new helm style, but it is nice to have all the guages right there, neat, clean, organized. As far as storage, we took week + trips with six, loaded supplies to the point where we were low on our lines and everything had a place. The storage in the back is tremendous. Abridged version, we love it.
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Richard
Foward Berth
I agree. The forward berth is fine. In fact, it is great. I am 6'1" and my wife is 5'11". We sleep feet foward and I stuff a few pillows on the side to create a little extra room.
I agree. The forward berth is fine. In fact, it is great. I am 6'1" and my wife is 5'11". We sleep feet foward and I stuff a few pillows on the side to create a little extra room.
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John
C350 Forward Berth
Here's one more vote for the C350 forward berth. My wife and I sleep with our heads toward the bow and we have ample room.
Here's one more vote for the C350 forward berth. My wife and I sleep with our heads toward the bow and we have ample room.
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Andy
350 ... 4 in the Forward Berth
Yep.. We start with two then quite often a kid manages to sneak up and then the other kid.. (Gee.. almost like home) Yep.. darn right it is tight with two adults and two kids up there.. but nonetheless doable.. Most often though, two of us are in the forward cabin.. pillows at the bow and there is plenty of room. I like the mattress more than my bed at home.. Anybody know who makes em' as I would have one made for home too!! As I have posted previously, we are usually 8 on board the Catalina 350.. 4 kids and 4 adults. It works okay .. (more than okay).. during the day, but we need more cabin space in the aft section at night. Therefore, we have decided to become a 3 cabin Catalina 42 owner in the very near future.. Anyone have comments on that boat?
Yep.. We start with two then quite often a kid manages to sneak up and then the other kid.. (Gee.. almost like home) Yep.. darn right it is tight with two adults and two kids up there.. but nonetheless doable.. Most often though, two of us are in the forward cabin.. pillows at the bow and there is plenty of room. I like the mattress more than my bed at home.. Anybody know who makes em' as I would have one made for home too!! As I have posted previously, we are usually 8 on board the Catalina 350.. 4 kids and 4 adults. It works okay .. (more than okay).. during the day, but we need more cabin space in the aft section at night. Therefore, we have decided to become a 3 cabin Catalina 42 owner in the very near future.. Anyone have comments on that boat?
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