I have a 2003 356. It has two 12v marine batteries in series. One battery, I believe the second in the series, looses water at a faster rate then the other. I plan to replace both of them this Spring. My questions are: 1. Do I have a charging problem while at the doc? If so, suggested fixes please. 2. What do you recommend for replacement? 3. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, where is the best place to buy. Thanks, All.
- Status
Hello Battery. How are the little photo cells?
Unless you have a 24 volt system, your little ones are wired in parallel. Come on, use a name. We don't bite.
Unless you have a 24 volt system, your little ones are wired in parallel. Come on, use a name. We don't bite.
356 batteries
talk to your dealer-the batteries and the charger should still be under warranty if you've got a 2003. the standard batteries, at least in my 2002, are 2 lead acid size 24 deep cycle-general purpose batteries-not much power if you're running electronics, a fridge,etc. they are charged via a dual circuit shore charger, and it's posible that one side of the charger is overcharging. Under engine power the alternator charges whichever battery is selected by the battery switch. check the archives, there have been many discussions about battery approaches. after a lot of thought, here's what i did: the two deep cycle batteries are now connected in parallel on switch position one-I always leave the selector on this position. When I replace these batteries, i think 2 group 27 agms will fit in the standard box, giving me a main bank of 180 ah vs my current 150. I added a group 27 agm in a separate batery box just aft of the std box,on switch position 2. this battery is for emergency start/backup operations only. I then installed a battery combiner to charge the emergency battery when under power. this setup gives me redundancy,much better performance on the house bank-by more than doubling my house bank i get much longer cruise times, and it's much better for the batteries because they aren't discharged as deeply. at the dock, the dual charger charges both banks separately-under power, the second bank is kept isolated until the main bank is charged-it can't be left connected accidently. (loss of all our cold beer when someone left the boat batteries on both and the charger off drove me to this!)
talk to your dealer-the batteries and the charger should still be under warranty if you've got a 2003. the standard batteries, at least in my 2002, are 2 lead acid size 24 deep cycle-general purpose batteries-not much power if you're running electronics, a fridge,etc. they are charged via a dual circuit shore charger, and it's posible that one side of the charger is overcharging. Under engine power the alternator charges whichever battery is selected by the battery switch. check the archives, there have been many discussions about battery approaches. after a lot of thought, here's what i did: the two deep cycle batteries are now connected in parallel on switch position one-I always leave the selector on this position. When I replace these batteries, i think 2 group 27 agms will fit in the standard box, giving me a main bank of 180 ah vs my current 150. I added a group 27 agm in a separate batery box just aft of the std box,on switch position 2. this battery is for emergency start/backup operations only. I then installed a battery combiner to charge the emergency battery when under power. this setup gives me redundancy,much better performance on the house bank-by more than doubling my house bank i get much longer cruise times, and it's much better for the batteries because they aren't discharged as deeply. at the dock, the dual charger charges both banks separately-under power, the second bank is kept isolated until the main bank is charged-it can't be left connected accidently. (loss of all our cold beer when someone left the boat batteries on both and the charger off drove me to this!)
selector switch position
I assume that you have a battery selector switch. If one battery is favoured over the other and also assuming that you have a factory regulator (i.e. inexpensive) there is a chance that chronic overcharging will evapourate more fluid from one of the batteries. A smart regulator and regular switching between batteries might help. You should not need new batteries so soon. A check of the charging system and battery condition may also be beneficial in a diagnosis. Good luck.
I assume that you have a battery selector switch. If one battery is favoured over the other and also assuming that you have a factory regulator (i.e. inexpensive) there is a chance that chronic overcharging will evapourate more fluid from one of the batteries. A smart regulator and regular switching between batteries might help. You should not need new batteries so soon. A check of the charging system and battery condition may also be beneficial in a diagnosis. Good luck.
Batteries and Charging
The 356 was delivered with either a charger or an Inverter charger combination. You need to find out which you have. Ours has the Inverter charger and it already prvides smart charging. I do not know what the standard chargers capabilities are. However, the advice given here so far is appropriate regarding the charging. In the Inverter model, the 1/2/both swithc not only controls which battery gets the charge, it controls which battery supplies the inverter with power when it is being used. That wire works both ways. Any advice regarding replacement batteries and type will produce a pretty wide set of opinions. And, most of those opinions are valid as it really has to do with use, accessibility, your interest in maintenance, etc. I like my AGM's, but they are pricey. We did extensive changes to the charging and battery system on our 356 right during commissioning. We have two Group 4D AGM's for the house (one each connected to the 1/2/both switch and one dedicated Group 27 AGM starter battery. We replaced the standard alternator with a Balmar higher amp unit and an MC612 smart regulator. The Heart Inverter Charger charges all batteries through the switch and a Pathmaker combiner. The alternator also charges through the combiner. Our boat is in Alameda at Ballena Bay. I'll be there most of the day on Saturday if you want to come take a look. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
The 356 was delivered with either a charger or an Inverter charger combination. You need to find out which you have. Ours has the Inverter charger and it already prvides smart charging. I do not know what the standard chargers capabilities are. However, the advice given here so far is appropriate regarding the charging. In the Inverter model, the 1/2/both swithc not only controls which battery gets the charge, it controls which battery supplies the inverter with power when it is being used. That wire works both ways. Any advice regarding replacement batteries and type will produce a pretty wide set of opinions. And, most of those opinions are valid as it really has to do with use, accessibility, your interest in maintenance, etc. I like my AGM's, but they are pricey. We did extensive changes to the charging and battery system on our 356 right during commissioning. We have two Group 4D AGM's for the house (one each connected to the 1/2/both switch and one dedicated Group 27 AGM starter battery. We replaced the standard alternator with a Balmar higher amp unit and an MC612 smart regulator. The Heart Inverter Charger charges all batteries through the switch and a Pathmaker combiner. The alternator also charges through the combiner. Our boat is in Alameda at Ballena Bay. I'll be there most of the day on Saturday if you want to come take a look. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Thanks for the battery input and output!
Dan: We are hiking the Pinnacles this weekend, but I would like to take you up on your offer when you are on your boat next. Kam, Jeff and Fred - I appreciate your input as well. The boat's name is StormFront. I came with an inverter and standard Hunter equipment including the battery circuit breaker and Bat 1, 2 and both switch under the nav. I am fairly sure the batteries are 12v but I will check on Sunday. I will also take a few pix and post for you review. Thanks Dave
Dan: We are hiking the Pinnacles this weekend, but I would like to take you up on your offer when you are on your boat next. Kam, Jeff and Fred - I appreciate your input as well. The boat's name is StormFront. I came with an inverter and standard Hunter equipment including the battery circuit breaker and Bat 1, 2 and both switch under the nav. I am fairly sure the batteries are 12v but I will check on Sunday. I will also take a few pix and post for you review. Thanks Dave
Batteries and Charging
Dave, OK, now that I have the layout I can provide a little more input. The Inverter is also your charger, and I'm assuming that you probably knew that. Hunter usually hooked one battery to switch one and the other to switch two. If you leave your switch on either of those positions you are charging only one of the batteries. That might account for the discrepancy in battery fluid levels. To charge both, you need to have the switch on both. You probably also know that power to the DC panel is switched by a seperate circuit breaker switch on the same switch panel that only allows you to select one battery at a time. This has nothing to do with the charging circuit. I'm going a little from memory here, but I think the Heart Inverter puts out about 13.6 volts or so on float. If you leave the charger on all the time, then that might be enough to cook out some fluid. On the other hand, if you leave it off all the time and your bilge pump starts working for some necessary reason, you might sink because your batteries finally went dead. Had this happen to a friend just a few months ago. You did not say how often you are adding fluid. It might just be normal maintenance, particularly if you are leaving the charger on. Be happy to have you join us at the boat sometime. I have a neighbor 356 right next to me who posts on here also. His set-up may be just like yours as I recall. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Dave, OK, now that I have the layout I can provide a little more input. The Inverter is also your charger, and I'm assuming that you probably knew that. Hunter usually hooked one battery to switch one and the other to switch two. If you leave your switch on either of those positions you are charging only one of the batteries. That might account for the discrepancy in battery fluid levels. To charge both, you need to have the switch on both. You probably also know that power to the DC panel is switched by a seperate circuit breaker switch on the same switch panel that only allows you to select one battery at a time. This has nothing to do with the charging circuit. I'm going a little from memory here, but I think the Heart Inverter puts out about 13.6 volts or so on float. If you leave the charger on all the time, then that might be enough to cook out some fluid. On the other hand, if you leave it off all the time and your bilge pump starts working for some necessary reason, you might sink because your batteries finally went dead. Had this happen to a friend just a few months ago. You did not say how often you are adding fluid. It might just be normal maintenance, particularly if you are leaving the charger on. Be happy to have you join us at the boat sometime. I have a neighbor 356 right next to me who posts on here also. His set-up may be just like yours as I recall. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Dan's probably on the right line
I suspect Dan hit it on the head. You're probably favoring one battery over the other. Loss of fluid is proportional to your charging habits, or high loads on the battery for extended time, like anchor windlasses hauling the anchor without motoring up, giving the line slack. One of my projects this summer is to change out the battery bank with 4 6-volt batteries. 2 each in series, and the 2 banks in parallel throught he stock battery switch. Each bank will give me 225 AH for a total of 450 AH, for about $250 in batteries, less than the cost of 1 8D! I am taking one starting battery for the engine, and a dedicated charging line from the alternator(regulator). This way, all I have to modify is the regulator, a separate switch for the starting battery, and the battery box to hold the larger batteries. Everything else remains as it was delivered, and adds a ton of time on the hook without running the engine to recharge. Back to your question, I wouldn't suspect a bad abattery at this point. You can take the battery to a battery shop and have it checked out, but check your charging and battery use habits first Good Luck!
I suspect Dan hit it on the head. You're probably favoring one battery over the other. Loss of fluid is proportional to your charging habits, or high loads on the battery for extended time, like anchor windlasses hauling the anchor without motoring up, giving the line slack. One of my projects this summer is to change out the battery bank with 4 6-volt batteries. 2 each in series, and the 2 banks in parallel throught he stock battery switch. Each bank will give me 225 AH for a total of 450 AH, for about $250 in batteries, less than the cost of 1 8D! I am taking one starting battery for the engine, and a dedicated charging line from the alternator(regulator). This way, all I have to modify is the regulator, a separate switch for the starting battery, and the battery box to hold the larger batteries. Everything else remains as it was delivered, and adds a ton of time on the hook without running the engine to recharge. Back to your question, I wouldn't suspect a bad abattery at this point. You can take the battery to a battery shop and have it checked out, but check your charging and battery use habits first
Good Luck!- Status