30 Rescued After Boat Capsizes in San Francisco Bay
- Thread starter vimocam
- Start date
It was not a sailboat. It was a 34-foot cabin cruiser.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/10/10/capsized-boat-san-francisco-bay-search-khaleesi/
Loaded with 30 people on board.
Greg
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/10/10/capsized-boat-san-francisco-bay-search-khaleesi/
Loaded with 30 people on board.
Greg
You can't put 5,000 lbs of people on top of a 34 foot cabin cruiser. It's like parking a Chevy Suburban on it, and expecting it to remain upright. Especially when the Suburban suddenly moves to one side to look at a dolphin.
I'm very happy they all survived. Maybe now there are 30 more people who are smarter than the boat.
I'm very happy they all survived. Maybe now there are 30 more people who are smarter than the boat.
I've operated numerous "USCG certified" for carrying passenger vessels that have carried anywhere from 25 to 250 people and not one was 1 X 10. That would make a harbor cruise/dinner boat certified for 250 passengers 2500 feet long.
I ran an 81 foot schooner that was certified for 49 and another 61 footer that was certified for 25.
I ran an 81 foot schooner that was certified for 49 and another 61 footer that was certified for 25.
I was out on the water when that happened watching the air show which was spectacular by the way. The PON PON PON PON came about 4:00 pm as everybody was starting to depart just after the show. I have never seen so many boats on the bay. Unbelievable. Good thing, too. The boat that capsized was surrounded by other boats (including coast guard boats)when it happened so folks were right there to help.
The widely referenced, misunderstood and unsafe max loading formula has been L X W / 15 not L X W / 10. This formula was also developed under the old USGC AAWPP weight standards of 160 pounds per US adult and that is now 185 pounds.. Still this formula has been proven unsafe by numerous naval architects including Dave Gerr and Eric Sorenson and there are numerous changes in the works on safe loading formulas. Even using that formula, and assuming it is safe, which it is not unless the boat is physically stability tested for that formula, the boat was grossly and egregiously over loaded.
FWIW this is page #1 from a Silverton 34C owners manual, a similar boat to the one that just flipped with 30 people on-board. This particular Silverton model killed 3 people when it flipped with 27 on board.
If you look closely you can clearly see that Silverton, the boat builder, suggests 10 people as max capacity!!!
Silverton 34C Owners Manual Page #1
Being out on SF Bay to watch the Blue Angels with some guests the day before the capsize, the news on Saturday evening caught my attention.
Since 2007, which is when I bought my 1980 36' Hunter sailboat, I have read several times about the same type of scenario happening. A smaller sized cabin cruiser type boat is grossly overloaded with people. Usually out to watch a fireworks show. The young children naturally go down below into the cabin to escape the noise, and to have more fun with each other, and maybe munch on snacks without the adults hoovering over them. On deck, and even on the deck above, the adults all move to the side of the boat that affords the best view of the show. Then the disaster unfolds.
I went out to watch the Blue Angels again on Sunday, the day after the capsize. Eight guests including two 11 year old children on my 13,800lb sailboat with a heavy lead keel. So capsizing wasn't something I was too concerned about (unless the keel broke off!). But overall safety is always paramount. (See **below.)
When out on again to watch the airshow on Sunday, I noticed in the flotilla of Blue Angels' observation vessels a commercial charter fishing boat; of the type that also takes out tourists for tours on SF Bay. I estimated it about 40' in length with a wide beam. For its size, not overloaded with people by any means. But huddled together sitting on the deck near the bow were about 6-10 children about of ages 5-10. No adults on that section of the deck with them. Not One of the Children had a life jacket on! Since the boat was being skippered by presumably a licensed captain, I expect that actually donning life jackets is not a regulation. But still, young children that are free to run around the deck of a smallish boat. No life jackets on? Cold water? Really?
** Back to my outing. All had to put on and adequately fasten their life jackets before I untied from the berth. One of the adult guests was an experienced sailboat sailor. I asked him also to be alert and to immediately call out and issue instructions if he observed any safety issues. Before we left the berth, I overviewed for everyone the importance of one hand on the boat at all times ... even when moving around. That going overboard is a really bad option. Conditions were relatively calm for SF Bay, but still, I insisted not to stand while on the deck out of the cockpit. Just too easy to loose balance. One mistake I made on this outing was that I forgot to tell my passengers, as I normally remember, to remain on boat upon berthing. Not to step/jump down to help fend off. The boat is too heavy and an injury can result. That it is my job to stop the boat in the slip, step off to tie off the most appropriate lines (which can vary depending on the current and wind conditions at the berth). On Sunday, I was dismayed that two people, neither of them within quite a few decades of being even remotely young, nor with any boating experience, launched themselves off the boat onto the dock even before my reverse thrust fully stopped the boat. To see this happen scared me quite a bit actually. I will not fail to issue the "stay on the boat" instruction ever again.
Since 2007, which is when I bought my 1980 36' Hunter sailboat, I have read several times about the same type of scenario happening. A smaller sized cabin cruiser type boat is grossly overloaded with people. Usually out to watch a fireworks show. The young children naturally go down below into the cabin to escape the noise, and to have more fun with each other, and maybe munch on snacks without the adults hoovering over them. On deck, and even on the deck above, the adults all move to the side of the boat that affords the best view of the show. Then the disaster unfolds.
I went out to watch the Blue Angels again on Sunday, the day after the capsize. Eight guests including two 11 year old children on my 13,800lb sailboat with a heavy lead keel. So capsizing wasn't something I was too concerned about (unless the keel broke off!). But overall safety is always paramount. (See **below.)
When out on again to watch the airshow on Sunday, I noticed in the flotilla of Blue Angels' observation vessels a commercial charter fishing boat; of the type that also takes out tourists for tours on SF Bay. I estimated it about 40' in length with a wide beam. For its size, not overloaded with people by any means. But huddled together sitting on the deck near the bow were about 6-10 children about of ages 5-10. No adults on that section of the deck with them. Not One of the Children had a life jacket on! Since the boat was being skippered by presumably a licensed captain, I expect that actually donning life jackets is not a regulation. But still, young children that are free to run around the deck of a smallish boat. No life jackets on? Cold water? Really?
** Back to my outing. All had to put on and adequately fasten their life jackets before I untied from the berth. One of the adult guests was an experienced sailboat sailor. I asked him also to be alert and to immediately call out and issue instructions if he observed any safety issues. Before we left the berth, I overviewed for everyone the importance of one hand on the boat at all times ... even when moving around. That going overboard is a really bad option. Conditions were relatively calm for SF Bay, but still, I insisted not to stand while on the deck out of the cockpit. Just too easy to loose balance. One mistake I made on this outing was that I forgot to tell my passengers, as I normally remember, to remain on boat upon berthing. Not to step/jump down to help fend off. The boat is too heavy and an injury can result. That it is my job to stop the boat in the slip, step off to tie off the most appropriate lines (which can vary depending on the current and wind conditions at the berth). On Sunday, I was dismayed that two people, neither of them within quite a few decades of being even remotely young, nor with any boating experience, launched themselves off the boat onto the dock even before my reverse thrust fully stopped the boat. To see this happen scared me quite a bit actually. I will not fail to issue the "stay on the boat" instruction ever again.
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Actually, I believe children are required to wear life jackets and I doubt the skipper is a licensed captain. Probably just dude with a boat. Anyway, lots of folks on this forum pointing out that mistakes were made. Yes, there were.
MS is correct on the L x W/15. I had not had my coffee when I posted the /10. I remember is it 2.5 feet x 6 feet= 15sq ft pp. I was taught this in the 70s in a CG Aux course. This pp number represented the number above which you would be found grossly negligent of overloading. I will probably see this formula violated on Thursday when the boats turn our for the start of The Great Schooner Race off Annapolis. In previous posts, the "recommended" or whatever other term the mfg uses, is just a practical- probably calculated- guideline, but I have never seen it as being the LEGAL limit. The lawyers on each side will debate the plaque and formula numbers endlessly. If anyone has a source that show ANY calculation as law, I'd like to see it.
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LxW/15? That means I can have 14 people on my boat? Shut the front door. No way in h-e-double-hocky-sticks will I EVER put 14 people on my boat. Six passengers and me. That's it. Nothing more, except if I have to rescue someone. Oh... and there must be one PFD of each soul on board. I have a total of 8 PFDs. I wear an inflatable.