26x sunk due to water ballast leak

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Paul

Multiple failures

The only way I could see it happen would be if the the transom value was open (or leaking) and there was a leak from the ballest tank into the inside of the boat (Some one drill a hole in it, put a screw in it or it cracked). or If there was a hull leak (like the engine mounting bolts going thru the transom), the transom value was open or leaking and the vent plug was open.
 
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billy w

No Way, Too

I agree with Tim Miler. Water cannot pour into the boat thru the vent hole. After I read some of the responses, I loaded up several of my big friends ( total people weight 1,572lbs), batteries 122lbs, fuel 115lbs, water 60lbs, + porta potti, anchors, etc. Even with about 2,000lbs water did not come to the top of the vent hole. I left the plug in, opened the fill valve and backed up. Even under this added force the vent plug held. Backing up with the vent plug out did splash a little water into the bowl around the vent hole. The only way water can get inside the boat is thru the hatches, thru a hole in the hull, or thru a hole in the ballast tank where it is molded to the hull. This was only a test---I would never take that many people out sailing. I wish Madison would be kind enough to fill in all the details about the sinking --where the leak was, how it possibly got there, and if the boat came to rest on the bottom and at what depth.
 
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billy w

No Way, Too

I agree with Tim Miler. Water cannot pour into the boat thru the vent hole. After I read some of the responses, I loaded up several of my big friends ( total people weight 1,572lbs), batteries 122lbs, fuel 115lbs, water 60lbs, + porta potti, anchors, etc. Even with about 2,000lbs water did not come to the top of the vent hole. I left the plug in, opened the fill valve and backed up. Even under this added force the vent plug held. Backing up with the vent plug out did splash a little water into the bowl around the vent hole. The only way water can get inside the boat is thru the hatches, thru a hole in the hull, or thru a hole in the ballast tank where it is molded to the hull. This was only a test---I would never take that many people out sailing. I wish Madison would be kind enough to fill in all the details about the sinking --where the leak was, how it possibly got there, and if the boat came to rest on the bottom and at what depth.
 
J

Jim

Timm, Billy & Paul

Timm & Billy, Thanks for the info, its good to know. Still learning about my boat. I am more at ease now about it, so forgive my lack of knowledge. Paul, what you say also makes a lot of sense. Hopefully we will all find out what happened
 
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Jim

Timm, Billy & Paul

Timm & Billy, Thanks for the info, its good to know. Still learning about my boat. I am more at ease now about it, so forgive my lack of knowledge. Paul, what you say also makes a lot of sense. Hopefully we will all find out what happened
 
A

A8A8A8

BullS______

This sinking is pure you know what. Either the floatation was taken out. Someone sabotaged the boat or the complainant is personally affected by the MacGregor popularity (As in losing sales to Mac26) As far as the Lake Champlain Incident goes. That was an ignorant and drunk person who broke every rule on using the MacGregor; from overloading, to no ballast, to having the board down and powering away, not to mention being intoxicated..I have followed that story closely and there is a chance the owner of that boat may be charged as well. If you loan your boat make the borrower read the manual and go over it with them. You could lose a lot more than your boat
 
A

A8A8A8

BullS______

This sinking is pure you know what. Either the floatation was taken out. Someone sabotaged the boat or the complainant is personally affected by the MacGregor popularity (As in losing sales to Mac26) As far as the Lake Champlain Incident goes. That was an ignorant and drunk person who broke every rule on using the MacGregor; from overloading, to no ballast, to having the board down and powering away, not to mention being intoxicated..I have followed that story closely and there is a chance the owner of that boat may be charged as well. If you loan your boat make the borrower read the manual and go over it with them. You could lose a lot more than your boat
 
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Jammin J

Re. BullS

After reading the post responses to 26X sinking, I think there is a lot of us that feel the same way. Something Stinks! Far as the 26X Capsize, there are a lot of us agree there too. Feel bad about the kids, and the parents to them. Serves as a strong pay attention, to the rest of us. I won't lend my boat, car or truck out either. Just asking for big problems.
 
J

Jammin J

Re. BullS

After reading the post responses to 26X sinking, I think there is a lot of us that feel the same way. Something Stinks! Far as the 26X Capsize, there are a lot of us agree there too. Feel bad about the kids, and the parents to them. Serves as a strong pay attention, to the rest of us. I won't lend my boat, car or truck out either. Just asking for big problems.
 
R

Ron Kovacs

Response to Art

Have to agree with Flip! You probably don't own a Mac and sure don't know much about insurance. Having been an insurance loss consultant representing policyholders against insurance companies for 35 years...I think I do! You indicate if it is not "your fault" the insurer owes. Actually insurance is purchased just as much to protect you against your own "faults" "mistakes" and "stupidity" as against natural hazards. The issue of "fault" causation has only to do with "intent". If you stupidly burn your house down because you thru a lit cigarette without thinking into the trash...you are covered. If you first poured gasoline into the trash container and then intentionally through in the match...you committed arson and your claim will be denied! Fault has nothing to do with it! As for the Mac26x...I do indeed own one and have been out in some pretty wild weather on Lake Erie...my own "fault" and "stupidity" ...but the boat behaved very well even if I was dumb. Also, I can't fault Cherubini for his opinions as I've seen some of his boats...but nevertheless operated within its parameters, water ballasted boats are not patently unsafe...and that is my opinion not as builder/designer but as a sailor! By the way...I love Bolger!
 
R

Ron Kovacs

Response to Art

Have to agree with Flip! You probably don't own a Mac and sure don't know much about insurance. Having been an insurance loss consultant representing policyholders against insurance companies for 35 years...I think I do! You indicate if it is not "your fault" the insurer owes. Actually insurance is purchased just as much to protect you against your own "faults" "mistakes" and "stupidity" as against natural hazards. The issue of "fault" causation has only to do with "intent". If you stupidly burn your house down because you thru a lit cigarette without thinking into the trash...you are covered. If you first poured gasoline into the trash container and then intentionally through in the match...you committed arson and your claim will be denied! Fault has nothing to do with it! As for the Mac26x...I do indeed own one and have been out in some pretty wild weather on Lake Erie...my own "fault" and "stupidity" ...but the boat behaved very well even if I was dumb. Also, I can't fault Cherubini for his opinions as I've seen some of his boats...but nevertheless operated within its parameters, water ballasted boats are not patently unsafe...and that is my opinion not as builder/designer but as a sailor! By the way...I love Bolger!
 
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Malcolm Palmer

Mac26X Test

I think "someone" should test a 26X full of water with water in the ballast tank with a 200 pound weight on the back to simulate 50 HP outboard. I've been giving some thought to this - you could use 200# of chain or bags full of sand or rocks at the back of the boat. There would have to be ropes attached to the weight(s), so that if the boat sank you could remove the weights. Remove all cloth materials and anything that you didn't want to get wet, of course. I suspect the boat would still float but the stern would be underwater. What do you think? PS Who is Bolger?
 
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Malcolm Palmer

Mac26X Test

I think "someone" should test a 26X full of water with water in the ballast tank with a 200 pound weight on the back to simulate 50 HP outboard. I've been giving some thought to this - you could use 200# of chain or bags full of sand or rocks at the back of the boat. There would have to be ropes attached to the weight(s), so that if the boat sank you could remove the weights. Remove all cloth materials and anything that you didn't want to get wet, of course. I suspect the boat would still float but the stern would be underwater. What do you think? PS Who is Bolger?
 
D

dan

Stern Under Water

Being that there are no valves on the thru hull drains(galley sink,head sink and stern motor hole drain)and the stern drain piping was disconnected inside, water would poor in to the boat thru the stern thru hull drain........ I have added PVC valves on ALL thru hull fittings for such emergencies. This sinking sounds like cracks or voids in the ballast tank inside the hull allowed water to enter through the ballast intake valve? How about a Marine Survey Update Madison ! How was the vessel retrieved out of the river? We are on the edge of our seats on this one! dan
 
D

dan

Stern Under Water

Being that there are no valves on the thru hull drains(galley sink,head sink and stern motor hole drain)and the stern drain piping was disconnected inside, water would poor in to the boat thru the stern thru hull drain........ I have added PVC valves on ALL thru hull fittings for such emergencies. This sinking sounds like cracks or voids in the ballast tank inside the hull allowed water to enter through the ballast intake valve? How about a Marine Survey Update Madison ! How was the vessel retrieved out of the river? We are on the edge of our seats on this one! dan
 
R

Ron Kovacs

Phil Bolger

Who is Phil Bolger? Bolger designs basically wood boats....from the very smallest up to vessels over 100'. Best known for designing "Bolger Boxes" and his "micro" design is awesome for relatively instant boat building techniques. Saw a lot of his stuff when I used to subscribe to a cute weekly magazine for wood boat builders, etc., called "Messing About in Boats", I believe. Have read all Bolger's books if just for fun. Have built a wonderful small wood instant construction dinghy ...took only two easy pace days...and it is now 10 years old. Other designers probably "poo-poo" Bolger just like they do Roger Macgregor's manufacturing techniques and marketing skills...so what! (I think they're both great!) One other thing! Someone commented that they had seen a site where all the possible "statistical" factors were worked out for the MAC26X...gosh I would like to know where it is.
 
R

Ron Kovacs

Phil Bolger

Who is Phil Bolger? Bolger designs basically wood boats....from the very smallest up to vessels over 100'. Best known for designing "Bolger Boxes" and his "micro" design is awesome for relatively instant boat building techniques. Saw a lot of his stuff when I used to subscribe to a cute weekly magazine for wood boat builders, etc., called "Messing About in Boats", I believe. Have read all Bolger's books if just for fun. Have built a wonderful small wood instant construction dinghy ...took only two easy pace days...and it is now 10 years old. Other designers probably "poo-poo" Bolger just like they do Roger Macgregor's manufacturing techniques and marketing skills...so what! (I think they're both great!) One other thing! Someone commented that they had seen a site where all the possible "statistical" factors were worked out for the MAC26X...gosh I would like to know where it is.
 
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