26D Daggerboard: Repair or Replace?

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Apr 23, 2005
194
Macgregor 26D Calif. Delta
After owning my 1988 26D since spring, I 'finally' pulled the daggerboard to get a look at it today. It's not in as bad a shape as I'd feared. A small ding on the lower leading edge, probably from an earlier grounding. Not a big deal to repair. Of greater concernn to me is the trailing edge which has a couple of sections that are cracked or splitting straight-up. I could certainly seal these up, but it made me wonder what's inside. I can clean-up the visible problems, but how can I be sure of the internal strength? I replaced the rudder earlier this year with the IdaSailor model. Considering the daggerboard from them now as well. Thanks for the advice!
 
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John S

DBoard Xsection

Joel at IdaSailor has a dboard cut in cross section. The stock Mac Dboard is a hollow fiberglas construction with wooden stringers inside. Since the db is hollow, it floods every time tou put it down. Eventually, the wooden stringers rot out and you are left with an eggshell. The replacement HDPE DBoard is solid plastic, and Joel adds lead weight to the end to get it to sink. When he made mine, I asked for an extra 25 lbs of lead to help with some heeling I had observed (ha). The airfoil shape of the Ida DB vs the stock helps the boat to point. Of real importance is the ability to move the HDPE DB up and down in the well when sailing on any point of sail. My attitude is that you should upgrade your systems as they wear out. I don't know if any one else even has a dboard for a 26. The IdaSailor DBoard is great! But then I am very biased. John S
 
Apr 23, 2005
194
Macgregor 26D Calif. Delta
Extra weight

That's the point of view I've generally had -- upgrade as things wear out. And it's cost me a fortune ;) but well worth it so far. Do you have any experience to say whether or not the extra 25# was worth it? Is it a noticable difference? -cs http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bayareamacs/
 
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John S

DB Weight

Weight in the end of the daggerboard is a two edged sword, while it may make the boat stiffer, when you run it aground something has to break! Let it not be your dboard well. I don't have the old db to compare to anymore- sold it on ebay. It definitely sinks as soon as I release the uphaul. If you think about the dboard as a wing, then I think most of its benefit is the lack of drag compared to the oval shaped stock db. However, with my baggy sails, I can use any righting moment in heavier air, cause I hate to reef. John S
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
Gluvit !

if its rotten, you may want to try this stuff. hardens like marine tex, gets in cracks. can you pour it in and coat the insides? could delay this for another few seasons.... this is common quick fix for rotten decks. http://marinetex.com/PRODUCT%20PAGE_files/All%20Gluvit/gluvit%20prod%20in.htm
 
Apr 23, 2005
194
Macgregor 26D Calif. Delta
New DB Ordered Today

I look forward to sinking this into the cold winter water of California (hey, it's kinda cold all year anyway ;) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bayareamacs/
 
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Dave M26D

daggerboard foibles...

John, I have an '88 I bought new...I have taken care of the sucker to the point of being labled "anal". My advice is, if you can reserect the original, that is your best option, if you cannot, Ida is a good second choice. There are some secondary issues,however, and should be evaluated before you make a decision (just my "humble" opinion). By the way, there is a number etched into the stern just above the VIN...do you mind sharing it?
 
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John S

Vin

Hi Dave Here is my Vin: MACW0401J788. Does the shape of my windows make you ask? I have substantially changed them, but the basic hull is a Mac 26D. Just a question, though. Do you not feel that the airfoil shape of the IdaSailor Daggerboard is alone woth the replacement of it? The difference in the rudder (with its airfoil shape) can easily be demonstrated by the amount of heel the Ida DB will hold off before it rounds up. Don't you feel that similar forces effect the shape of the dboard, especially drag reduction? John S
 
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John S

error

Dang it, I meant to say... the amount of heel the Ida RUDDER will hold off Sorry John S
 
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Dave M26D

Foil design...

John, as you may recall, I tend to shy away from controversial subjects... However, from time to time I feel it necessary to express my meager opinion...so... The thing that limits the shape of the daggerboard is the trunk. Not even Ida can offer much improvement on shape due to that limitation. Having said that, the shape of the daggerboard seems more than adequate for my purposes and seems to provide the necessary lift as long as the other trim and tuning parameters are addressed. The inside of the daggerboard is wood. It is designed to take a reasonalbe hit without breaking, but will break away before causing serious damage to the hull (that's the theory anyway). Much has been made of the inadequacy of the design of the stock rudder, and with good reason. The Ida rudder is a big improvement over the stock rudder and is the result of a lot of work done by some of the old 26 codgers to include Roger Garland, Mike Corcoran, Steve V and has been nicely documented by Tom Stockwell. With respect to your original inquiry, I would repair the original if possible. The attached article is relevant to the performance issues you raise...I think you'll see that the stock daggerboard is pretty good in so far as performance is concerned.
 
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Ramblin' Rod - Mac 26D - SeaQuell

Holy Crap! Dave and I Agree on Something!

The stock daggerboard is a reasonable Naca foil shape and works very well. We raise and lower our stock DB under all points of sail, all the time. My daggerboard was badly damaged when I bought the boat. I cut out the bad sections and replaced about 1 foot of the trailing edge. It works great. Cost $20. Can't do that very easily with HDPE. I would be very concerned about the DB trunk breaking open below the waterline in a grounding using a more robust daggerboard.
 
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John S

Foil x-section

That was a very interesting article, Dave. I had to read it a couple of times to get all of the info there, not sure I have it all yet. I just want to correct one statement you made about the limitations of the IdaSailor Daggerboard design, that it is limited by the dboard well. While the gross dimensions of any dboard shoved down the well will be dictated by the inside dimensions, ie length and width, a lot of shapes that fit those two dimensions will fit down the well. The dboards that I have seen that are stock Macs are oval shaped, unlike any of the typical drawings in the article you have submitted for our edification. The IdaSailor daggerboard is not an oval, and I'll post a pic as soon as I get home of its' x-section, as my custom dboard from IdaSailor was made purposely too long, for me to mark and have cut down to the absolute maximum length that would fit in my well. I still have the trimmed off part, and I think that you will have to agree that it is closely patterned on one of the airfoils in the aforesaid article. It was interesting to read about surface smoothness as well. The HDPE plastic that Joel makes his rudders and dboards out of will take as fine a surface sand as you have patience. Having said that, I don't think any of our hulls are apt to benefit from too much Reynolds numbers concerns. But it doesn't take an engineer to appreciate that the foil that IdaSailor sells is way, way superior to the Mac oval. Only those who are really concerned about winning races to windward should replace a good dboard. Repairing a dboard is an option if you don't completely destroy it. But if you are faced with replacing and not repairing your own dboard, an IdaSailor dboard makes a lot of sense to me. The other dimension of the dboard, length, is dictated by being flush with the bottom of the boat, and so to fit on the trailer bar underneath (that assures you it will not fall down while trailering), and the upper surface of the deck flush so you can lay your stick down. On the subject of those others who worked on the designs for the Mac, there is still work being done by places like IdaSailor, and it not a set sure thing. The latest design of rudder that I have seen, the Unifoil, is shorter than I would have thought necessary to hold off a 45 degree heel without an uncontrolled round up. Also, the Unifoil rudder did not have material (much) forward of the vertical pivot line, as most of the rudder designers for the Mac have recommended. The airfoil shape of the IdaSailor rudder is what makes it good, how can that same concept not be correct for the other wing flying through the water, the daggerboard? John S
 
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John S

Stock X=section

I guess you guys got a diffrent dboard on your boat than I did. The stock dboard from Mac that I have seen is not anything like a NACA airfoil, and you are fooling yourself to say so. John S
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
Weak link

Dang it, Rod's got a point.... Regardless of which is a better blade, the stock model was designed to snap before.... the boat. wonder how the ida would work...... Hmmmm.
 
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John S

Kerf Option

Ther is the option of a kerf cut 1/2 way up the blade if you so desire.The blade will break there. John S
 
Apr 23, 2005
194
Macgregor 26D Calif. Delta
Great ideas, and perfect timing

Great feedback, all. I love it when you all get so worked-up about these things! I don't know enough yet to have strong opinions, but learn a lot from the discussion. I have ordered an Ida replacement. They are going to add some extra weight to it, but not a lot. I don't think they're going to add quite as much as they did to yours, JohnS. Weight concerns seem to center around added lateral force on the trunk and ease of raising and lowering without a multi purchase raising system. I have asked for their advice on a kerf cut as well. I DO want the board to break before the boat, but not at the slightest grounding either. I do think I may still work on the stock DB as well though. Maybe do a little experimenting on it at some point ;) I will say this about foil shapes under water.... I gained a healthy respect for quality shapes and lengths under water in my days windsurfing. You wouldn't believe the difference just a few inches of fin makes on lift and pointing ability when you're reaching on windsurfing. It's HUGE. And on larger boards the same is true with centerboards. When you get it right, it's quite a ride. When it's wrong, it's nothing but frustration.
 
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