Any ideas here, or anybody with construction blueprints for a 222 rudder? Problem: When we sail our 222, the rudder seems to have a LOT of turbulence and drag. She would surely sail faster with some modifications to her rudder. Shouldn't the rudder be streamlined and knife thru the water? When we did the bottom last month, we also sanded/painted the rudder. It appears to be foam core with laminate. At some time, a previous owner had applied fiberglass to the bottom leading and trailing edges.The poor thing is shaped like a 2X12. I really don't want to buy a new rudder if I don't have to. Any info is appreciated MB
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Mama Bruff
So do all 222s have this turbulence?
This rudder wiggles and carries on like it's not hydrodynamic. Is this "normal" for a rudder on a 222? We have it all the way "DOWN"; should we adjust it so it trails back somewhat? How are the 222 rudders shaped? I need some info, please MB jbruff@classicnet.net
This rudder wiggles and carries on like it's not hydrodynamic. Is this "normal" for a rudder on a 222? We have it all the way "DOWN"; should we adjust it so it trails back somewhat? How are the 222 rudders shaped? I need some info, please MB jbruff@classicnet.net
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MArk
I can't help...
but think that some of the turbulance may be due to an unbalanced rig. Is your tiller close the center while sailing? If it isn't, you need to adjust your sails, centerboard and maybe even mast to balance your boat so it sails straight without much pressure on the tiller. You want a only a slight tendency for the boat to turn into the wind. You can download pictures of my O'Day 20's rudder from the "Related link" below. It's made of 1" thick wood with aluminum plates and stainless steel hardware and weighs a ton.
but think that some of the turbulance may be due to an unbalanced rig. Is your tiller close the center while sailing? If it isn't, you need to adjust your sails, centerboard and maybe even mast to balance your boat so it sails straight without much pressure on the tiller. You want a only a slight tendency for the boat to turn into the wind. You can download pictures of my O'Day 20's rudder from the "Related link" below. It's made of 1" thick wood with aluminum plates and stainless steel hardware and weighs a ton.
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Michael Knight
Our 222
We've had our 222 for a couple of years now and have noticed no problems with our rudder. I believe it's the original condition. The boat responds very well to the rudder with no noticeable turbulance. Must be that extra fiberglass.
We've had our 222 for a couple of years now and have noticed no problems with our rudder. I believe it's the original condition. The boat responds very well to the rudder with no noticeable turbulance. Must be that extra fiberglass.
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Barry Ownby
No rudder turbulence
My rudder cuts through the water just fine, it my center board that vibrates but that how I know we are starting to really haul it. We may truely say "it humming". The turbulence you are incuring could come from a loose fit at the mounting point, this could allow the leading edge to travel side to side to overcome the slack.
My rudder cuts through the water just fine, it my center board that vibrates but that how I know we are starting to really haul it. We may truely say "it humming". The turbulence you are incuring could come from a loose fit at the mounting point, this could allow the leading edge to travel side to side to overcome the slack.
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Mary Bruffett
Perhaps it's a mixed problem...
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts on this matter. I am relieved in a way to know this is not normal. Our keel cable does hum when we get going, ( I like to hear that) but the boat "feels" like it's pulling an anchor. As for the mounting, the gudgeons and pintles are tight, and we have installed washers and spacers between the rudder and the metal mounting bracket (that connects the rudder and the tiller)to hold the rudder steady with no slop...Yet the rudder does seem to want to dart back and forth as you (Barry) describe. And perhaps Ed has presented an interesting idea from the throne of wisdom...We HAVE recently repainted our rudder. But it has been previously repaired with a couple of layers of fiberglass, and is blunt edged. I know we probably need a new one...just wondered if anyone had encountered anything like this before, and what did you do... Another 222 owner sent me some pictures and measurements of his replacement rudder; we may fabricate a new one, or even buy one from D
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts on this matter. I am relieved in a way to know this is not normal. Our keel cable does hum when we get going, ( I like to hear that) but the boat "feels" like it's pulling an anchor. As for the mounting, the gudgeons and pintles are tight, and we have installed washers and spacers between the rudder and the metal mounting bracket (that connects the rudder and the tiller)to hold the rudder steady with no slop...Yet the rudder does seem to want to dart back and forth as you (Barry) describe. And perhaps Ed has presented an interesting idea from the throne of wisdom...We HAVE recently repainted our rudder. But it has been previously repaired with a couple of layers of fiberglass, and is blunt edged. I know we probably need a new one...just wondered if anyone had encountered anything like this before, and what did you do... Another 222 owner sent me some pictures and measurements of his replacement rudder; we may fabricate a new one, or even buy one from D
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Geof Tillotson
O'Day 25 Rudder "Feel"
When the boat is trimmedin just right, there is a pulsing sensation to the tiller/rudder. I changed the tiller this year to a more substantial one with an arch to it, my knees couldn't take the abuse of a straight ash tiller. The newer tiller doesn't transmit as much of the side-to-side pulsing feel, but it's still there. Anyway, I thought that this might be a problem, but in talking with two other O'Day 25 owners who moor nearby it turns out that this "turbulance/pulsating" feel is something that they try to attain. It's just feedback from the boat assuring us that we're sailing.
When the boat is trimmedin just right, there is a pulsing sensation to the tiller/rudder. I changed the tiller this year to a more substantial one with an arch to it, my knees couldn't take the abuse of a straight ash tiller. The newer tiller doesn't transmit as much of the side-to-side pulsing feel, but it's still there. Anyway, I thought that this might be a problem, but in talking with two other O'Day 25 owners who moor nearby it turns out that this "turbulance/pulsating" feel is something that they try to attain. It's just feedback from the boat assuring us that we're sailing.
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Mike Whalen
Tiller from West?
Geof, I was thinking of changing my tiller as well. The old one is in rough shape. Did you get your tiller from WEST. They have one they say is for the O'day 27 that is arched. I wondered if it was longer or would cause me trouble on my 25. Later, Mike
Geof, I was thinking of changing my tiller as well. The old one is in rough shape. Did you get your tiller from WEST. They have one they say is for the O'day 27 that is arched. I wondered if it was longer or would cause me trouble on my 25. Later, Mike
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Mike
Mike, I have the "Oday 27 replacement" tiller
I bought the tiller you are talking about: the one the West Marine catalog lists as the replacement for the Oday 27. I use it on my Oday 23, and it is the same length as the tiller it replaced. It's great! the big sweeping curve makes it so much more comfortable to steer. The curve also means that the tiller no longer bangs into anyone's knees when I need to steer a sharp turn. Don't worry about it being too long for the Oday 25.
I bought the tiller you are talking about: the one the West Marine catalog lists as the replacement for the Oday 27. I use it on my Oday 23, and it is the same length as the tiller it replaced. It's great! the big sweeping curve makes it so much more comfortable to steer. The curve also means that the tiller no longer bangs into anyone's knees when I need to steer a sharp turn. Don't worry about it being too long for the Oday 25.
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John Dorowski
Extra Leading Edge Fiberglass Material
I can agree with some of the other comments regarding the alignment, as well as the extra fiberglass on the leading edge. If it was not laid up on center, it will throw off the properly battened shape of the sides and cause it to want to steer in one direction over the other. Ours also had the additional glass along the leading edge, and down through the bottom. This helps protect the body from the little bumps and scrapes (in our shallow intercoastals here). Most of the bottom had been scraped until porous. When we were refairing the rudder, we stripped and replaced the glass. Then applied new gelcoat after a smooth sanding. With a final 800 grit polish, she knifes beautifully through the water, as long as she is fully seated. Don't allow the rudder to trail or she'll be very difficult to steer. Good luck, and fair seas.
I can agree with some of the other comments regarding the alignment, as well as the extra fiberglass on the leading edge. If it was not laid up on center, it will throw off the properly battened shape of the sides and cause it to want to steer in one direction over the other. Ours also had the additional glass along the leading edge, and down through the bottom. This helps protect the body from the little bumps and scrapes (in our shallow intercoastals here). Most of the bottom had been scraped until porous. When we were refairing the rudder, we stripped and replaced the glass. Then applied new gelcoat after a smooth sanding. With a final 800 grit polish, she knifes beautifully through the water, as long as she is fully seated. Don't allow the rudder to trail or she'll be very difficult to steer. Good luck, and fair seas.
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MamaBruff
This may be what we need to do...
Because although the rudder is seated all the way in the "down" position, it does tend to wander back and forth (left to right)HMMM. Thanks for the information. MB
Because although the rudder is seated all the way in the "down" position, it does tend to wander back and forth (left to right)HMMM. Thanks for the information. MB
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MamaBruff
Eureka! Tweak the rudder position...
We sailed this weekend, and tried tweaking the rudder's position to see if that made a difference. A slight adjustment allowing it to swing to aft made a huge difference. No more wandering and loud turbulence. Quiet control at last! Always before, we have sailed with the rudder snugged tight all the way "down". Perhaps the stops are worn, etc, allowing the rudder to be pulled past "center"?....We are planning to work on this over the winter. Thanks to everyone for their insight!MB
We sailed this weekend, and tried tweaking the rudder's position to see if that made a difference. A slight adjustment allowing it to swing to aft made a huge difference. No more wandering and loud turbulence. Quiet control at last! Always before, we have sailed with the rudder snugged tight all the way "down". Perhaps the stops are worn, etc, allowing the rudder to be pulled past "center"?....We are planning to work on this over the winter. Thanks to everyone for their insight!MB
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