2008 H41DS w/ mixed Raymarine and Garmin

[Nachismo]

Anybody have advice on where to go from here? I'm in year-3 living aboard Floaty here in Tacoma. Finally getting around to (slowly) addressing the electronics because (knock on balsa wood) I hope to venture out into the Pacific before too long.

The original Raymarine stuff looks like a 1985 mainframe computer and has all manner of weird relays all over the place, but I hate to do away with it because it seems to power the rather large and probably expensive auto-pilot (which does nothing currently). I also think the wind gauges and depth display are great since they are simple and easy to see.

The PO put a Garmin chartplotter at the helm. Works great except no radar, which is weird because there is a Garmin dome on the mast. I probably just haven't fingured out which wire since stepping the mast. My questions:

1. Am I just looking for a RJ ("Cat") cable to connect the Garmin dome to the Garmin helm chartplotter?
2. Can I keep the Raymarine depth, speed, autopilot, and wind if I get rid of the nav station Raymarine monstrosity of a chart plotter?
3. Any idea why the Ray chartplotter turns on but does nothing else? Thankfully, the depth sounder and speedo do not rely upon it, because they work fine.

I'm guessing all this stuff is about to go wireless anyway, so maybe I'll just wait for new tech to come out.

Thanks in advance for any input, general direction, criticism, or literally any remark you might provide! Totally clueless here, although I've wired lots of stuff in cars, houses, and the DC of this and other boats.

 

[shemandr]

We'd love to see a pic of the monstrosity!
Questions: 1. I don't know. I think I would put effort into getting the existing wiring right if it ever was. 2. Yes, I think so. To display on the Garmin I think you will need a conversion box for the Raymarine Seatalk to the Garmin NMEA 2000 or NMEA 1982. But I don't think they need to be integrated. Each needs power and connection to their senders. 3. What do you see on the screen when it's powered up?

 

[jssailem]

guessing all this stuff is about to go wireless

You can go wireless now. With the right gateway you can take your data output from your current hardware and using wifi display the data on your iPad.

I would focus on identifying your current hardware and connecting wires. Not wood the obvious. Why it is not working takes effort on your part to identify sources of power, connections correctly attached, signals being transmitted etc. It is a bit tedious and requires some testing equipment but the information will help you to identify the path forward.

You may discover you can do a fix and save a bunch of cash.

 

[Nachismo]

As to #3, when the dinosaur Raymarine is powered up, it says “No Data Source” no matter what page I select.

 

[Nachismo]

More pics

 

[shemandr]

I had the older E60, if I remember correctly. Based on my unit, and no particular expertise in electronics, if I had the no scanner message I'd be looking for why there is no power to the scanner. It may be a quirk in the soft button menu, a fault in the wiring to the scanner, a fault in the data connection from the scanner to the MFD or the Garmin scanner is talking NMEA and the Raymarine is talking Seatalk.
As for the no fix message for the GPS, I would look first to see if the antenna exists, is connected or is otherwise not working. Since the PO put in the Garmin, maybe the PO co-opted the antenna for the Garmin unit.
Given the sloppy crimps in the last picture I would be suspicious of any wiring done by that installer (And I'm really hoping I'm not being judgmental towards you).
If you want to use the Raymarine, and I would since I think it has radar overlay, some cool other features and integrates with your depth, windspeed and speedo, I would have a professional certified installer re do it (There are menus that are only available to dealers). Or if DIY, get the manuals take it out and start over.

 

[Nachismo]

I had the older E60, if I remember correctly. Based on my unit, and no particular expertise in electronics, if I had the no scanner message I'd be looking for why there is no power to the scanner. It may be a quirk in the soft button menu, a fault in the wiring to the scanner, a fault in the data connection from the scanner to the MFD or the Garmin scanner is talking NMEA and the Raymarine is talking Seatalk.
As for the no fix message for the GPS, I would look first to see if the antenna exists, is connected or is otherwise not working. Since the PO put in the Garmin, maybe the PO co-opted the antenna for the Garmin unit.
Given the sloppy crimps in the last picture I would be suspicious of any wiring done by that installer (And I'm really hoping I'm not being judgmental towards you).
If you want to use the Raymarine, and I would since I think it has radar overlay, some cool other features and integrates with your depth, windspeed and speedo, I would have a professional certified installer re do it (There are menus that are only available to dealers). Or if DIY, get the manuals take it out and start over.

Thanks. The DYI preference is more because when I do the work, I know I can fix it later. I’ll probly just hire someone & hover annoyingly while they work

 

[jssailem]

to that plan.

 

[dkinzer]

To discover the answers you'll need to examine the wiring and determine what is connected to what and what the interface technology is (e.g. NMEA 0183, NMEA 2000, SeaTalk1, Ethernet, etc.). I just recently replaced the E80 chart plotter on my 2007 H41AC. The ST60+ Wind, Depth and Speed instruments (still in use) are connected on a SeaTalk1 (three wire) network as is the ST7002/S3 auto-pilot and the RS125 GPS receiver. The AIS receiver talked to the chart plotter on high speed (38,400 bits per second) NMEA 0183. Lastly, the Raymarine radar sent data to the chart plotter over an Ethernet cable (which Raymarine calls SeaTalkHS).

You would benefit from determining the makes and model numbers of all of your electronics units and download the installation manuals for them. Comparing what you see in those manuals to what you see on your boat may provide the enlightenment you're seeking.

One piece of equipment that I have found very useful for understanding how my electronics are connected is a tracer. I have an older Model 700C from Progressive Electronics that are probably not available new but you can find them on the used market (an Internet search found several on eBay and elsewhere for about $40 and up). Essentially, you impose a signal on a wire at one end and then use and inductive pickup/amplifier to follow the wire and identify where it ends.

Also, if you power up your E80, press the Menu button and choose the Setup menu, one entry is System Diagnostics which leads to another menu that contains several entries that may provide useful information to help you understand your system. Lastly, I found the Raymarine tech support people to be both responsive and helpful. However, you'll need to have more information about how your devices are interconnected before you can ask them specific questions.

 

[MFD]

Hi @Nachismo ,
If you have not done it yet, I would highly recommend going to Index of /wp-content/export and downloading every document you can about the 41AC/41DS models. Keep in mind that your exact boat will probably have some slight variations from what is shown in these docs based depending on the combination of 41AC/41DC, 2-cabin/3-cabin, etc.

I have a 2009 41DS 2-cabin that came originally with a (still in place) Raymarine C120. It all works so I have not replaced anything, but have added things and am somewhat familiar with the wiring runs. I am second owner and all the original owner really did was add in a Garmin GPSMap7212 at the nav station and never integrated it with the rest of the systems.

I also recommend getting a tracer, or what I call a 'tone tester' - they are immensely helpful. I also have notes on what I had to do with add-ons (and the colors of the wires) for things like getting the VHF integrated into the C120 GPS at the helm, adding in an AIS700 that works with both the C120/nmea0183 and the GPSMap7012/nmea2000 + wifi output to the laptop(s) for OpenCaptain.

I am planning to open things up in a few weeks to install a GX2400 VHF (replaced the factory ICOM M422 once already), a terminal block to clean up the rats-nest of wiring from doing add-ons one at a time, and another 8-breaker DC panel. Also get the NMEA0183 and NMEA2000 better bridged so I can get more data into the Garmin and OpenCPN.

Let me know if you would like to me to share any notes I may have about specific wire colors, etc. from the helm station to the nav station or things like that.

 

[MFD]

Quick follow up - got bored and this thread got me motivated to start prepping for digging into preparing for my upcoming electronics/navigation/comms. While skimming through the C-Series 'classic' manual also downloaded the E-Series 'classic' manual, which I presume you have.

It seems like all of the marine vendors for these kind of products have sort of struggled in the transition towards open standards, maintaining unique competitive advantage, user interface clunkiness - and in all honesty, trying to avoid liability situations where things happen or sailors are sloppy and their lawyer's want to blame a vendor or anybody else that is perceived to have deep pockets.

So back on topic with the original poster's questions:

1. Am I just looking for a RJ ("Cat") cable to connect the Garmin dome to the Garmin helm chartplotter?
Probably, but confirming the specific model (by looking at the labels on the equipment, not what somebody 'said') and then reviewing the manufacturer docs would probably the place to start?

2. Can I keep the Raymarine depth, speed, autopilot, and wind if I get rid of the nav station Raymarine monstrosity of a chart plotter?
I will attach screenshots of what I have on my boat, mostly all original from ~2009 and all works. Yes, I can turn off the C120 MFD/ChartPlotter and the AutoPilot and all other instrument still work. At least for sailing a compass course or sailing to wind angle.

3. Any idea why the Ray chartplotter turns on but does nothing else? Thankfully, the depth sounder and speedo do not rely upon it, because they work fine.
It is my strong but not 100% understanding that it is only recently that some of the newest radar equipment is not tied specifically to having the corresponding same-manufacturer (and possibly same or +/-1 generation) MFD/ChartPlotter for display. My intuition on this follows the integrations that are offered by OpenCPN.


Out of curiosity - have you also researched the chain of title on your boat? Just from instinct, it sounds like at least one prior owner did some DIY work on the electronics/nav-systems and left a little chaos that you are now challenged with organizing and cleaning up. Typically 1st owners of boats do not do that - they had the money to buy new originally and will typically pay for professionals or at least be professionally guided. I would guess, with a 2008 and if the electronics are truly as chaotic as you described, you are probably 3rd or 4th owner? Also, there are some limitations I found with my 41DS in regards to what even a month or two in the mild Pacific can do in regards to structural wear and tear that these boats are simply not (I think design-wise fine) built ruggedly enough to endure on a sustained basis.

 

[Nachismo]

limitations I found with my 41DS in regards to what even a month or two in the mild Pacific can do in regards to structural wear and tear that these boats are simply not (I think design-wise fine) built ruggedly enough to endure on a sustained basis.

By all means, PLEASE elaborate!

 

[RitSim]

You should be able to connect a Garmin radar to a Garmin chartplotter. I have had issues with connecting a specific Garmin depth transducer to a Garmin chartplotter. I emailed the details (model numbers etc.) to Garmin.

Garmin Customer Support

Garmin Support Center is where you will find answers to frequently asked questions and resources to help with all of your Garmin products.

support.garmin.com

I also have had some success connection Raymarine Seatalk to the Garmin as well but your actual details may differ from mine. I bought a converter.

 

[dkinzer]

@RitSim, if you don't already have one, you might want to considering getting one of the Raymarine A06032 blanking plugs to fill that empty spur socket on the converter.

 

[RitSim]

Thanks. I missed that.

 

[MFD]

By all means, PLEASE elaborate!

Will do. My response might be somewhat lengthy and cover a variety of things.
I am certainly happy with my H41DS and also have some cautions where the material just does not hold up on the ocean.

Did you remove the couch on the starboard side yet?

 

[artboas]

You should be able to connect a Garmin radar to a Garmin chartplotter. I have had issues with connecting a specific Garmin depth transducer to a Garmin chartplotter. I emailed the details (model numbers etc.) to Garmin.

Garmin Customer Support

Garmin Support Center is where you will find answers to frequently asked questions and resources to help with all of your Garmin products.

support.garmin.com

I also have had some success connection Raymarine Seatalk to the Garmin as well but your actual details may differ from mine. I bought a converter.
View attachment 212161

Respectfully., your converter does not appear to be wired correctly.
The converter requires ;
Power
ST1 instrument connection
Stng output
If you are wiring this to a Garmin, then it will be considered as a spur
The yellow connection is st1 input,
The kit came with a power cable
I do not believe that the yellow connection powers up the converter.
It can be powered by either the supplied power cable, or through the backbone.

I suggest you review this.
Note:
Stng. (N2K) networks must only have one 12v supply on the bus, or you will let “the magic smoke” out.

 

[dkinzer]

It can be powered by either the supplied power cable, or through the backbone.

That is partially true. The SeaTalkNG network can also be powered by the SeaTalk1 network. If the SeaTalk1 network already has power (as it usually would in a retrofit situation), the simplest thing to do is to have it power the SeaTalkNG network.

This is clearly described in the installation documentation for the ST1/STNG converter.

 

[artboas]

That is partially true. The SeaTalkNG network can also be powered by the SeaTalk1 network. If the SeaTalk1 network already has power (as it usually would in a retrofit situation), the simplest thing to do is to have it power the SeaTalkNG network.

This is clearly described in the installation documentation for the ST1/STNG converter.

I agree with what you’re saying. But, there is a real potential for V+ conflict using the st1 as your feed.
I know the ST docs like the back of my hand, and re-read thoroughly before I posted this.
The long and the short of it, is that if it’s working, then ok. But, the ST1 has very limited LEN capability, and the system can crash unreliably using this. There are many references about balancing the voltage midpoint on a backbone.
My concern is that there is already a network with a pilot, etc, and the ST1 is distributed to several points.
But, if it’s working, then ok. I think it’s helpful to just understand the limitations.
Appreciate your helpful comments .