2006 Hunter 31 with custom 36' mast

[Robb]

I am looking to purchase a 30+ foot sailboat that will clear a 43' bridge located just outside my marina. I am not willing to settle for a smaller cabin than what is afforded in the 30+ footers. I plan on sailing up and down the intercostal and doing some coastal cruising from Port Canaveral to Ft Lauderdale and the keys, and eventually want to sail from east coast FL to the Bahamas too. I found a 2006 Hunter 31 with a custom 36' mast that I am considering. Apparently, this custom mast was designed by the Hunter factory to accomodate the original buyer with a similar bridge situation. I would like to get opinions from Hunter owners about how this boat will sail, as the custom mast is 8 feet shorter than standard. It is however a mast rig vs. a fractional, and is a conventional drop sail. Thank you in advance for your input, as I'm a novice sailer and don't really have much to compare to. Here is the link...
https://www.boats.com/sailing-boats/2006-hunter-31-4916696/#.VmtOQrQeXdk

 

[markwbird]

It will not sail as well. Changing from a fractional to a masthead could also be problematic. Both of these changes will change the location of the center of force as well as reduce the sail area. This will affect the boat's balance, speed, pointing ability, etc.

 

[Jackdaw]

Converting a B&R from fract to masthead will not change the rig dynamics at all. B&Rs have none of the advantage in sail-shaping that traditional fracts have, so you will not be giving that up. You WILL lose some sail area. And the balance might be slightly effected. That broker is an idiot for that garbage about loose footed mains. And it might look a bit odd (squat). But you get the bigger boat you wanted with a shorter stick; what you where looking for, and someone else paid for it.

 

[Meriachee]

"Speed robbing character of a loose footed main". Really? Could you elaborate on that theory please?

 

[Robb]

Thanks Mark and Jack for your insights. Jack, I had to do some homework on the B&R reference. Don't know that I'm any smarter now, but at least a little more knowledgeable and I got a good read There is obviously some give and take with this boat. I'm willing to give up some power and performance for the larger cabin, just not too much. After all, I'm looking to buy a SAILboat, right? The fact that the mast mod was made by the Hunter factory gives me some comfort. I'm sure Hunter wouldn't want to put a hack job out there. I keep going back to Jack's conclusion that this boat fits the bill of what I'm searching for... so long as it's a decent ride. First order of business if I decide to move forward on this boat will definitely be a sail test. Thanks again guys and if anyone else has other insights or inputs, I'm all ears here. Cheers!

 

[isaksp00]

Does the non-furling main have full battens? I have seen (in the past) comments that in-mast furling sails that lack battens are a bit less powerful than traditional mains that have them - so maybe the broker was referring to the "speed robbing" from the in-mast furling/lack of battens, rather than the loose foot. If that is true (and I am no expert), I wonder to what extent having battens partially makes up for the lesser sail area?

 

[Robb]

Yes. I'm told the mail sail is fully battened and I believe it has some extra shape/area, if you will, due to it not needing to furl. I've seen the boat but not the sails yet. I'll be sure to verify this. Also, for what it's worth, I met with the Broker and he seems very knowledgeable. He's an experienced sailor and he used to work for Hunter. In fact, he sold this boat to it's owner new from Hunter with the custom masthead rig. He said the owner raved about how well she sailed. But then again, he's trying to sell me the boat. That's why I'm here with all you smart guys/gals.....looking to either ease my anxiety or continue the search. Thanks, please keep it coming. Good stuff, much appreciated.

 

[Phil Herring]

someone else paid for it.

This is key. That was not a cheap modification.

BTW, this is a great example of why you have to measure for new sails, even though you have a "stock" production boat. Two owners from now I promise you that someone will think this is a standard OEM rig.

I missed the loose foot comment in all this, but our sail designer swears by them; in fact, prefers them to conventional.

 

[Charlie98117]

I missed the loose foot comment in all this, but our sail designer swears by them; in fact, prefers them to conventional.

My sail guy too. He said he has a standing offer that if anyone is unhappy with the loose foot he would rework the sail but has never had any takers.

 

[kloudie1]

Used to be a fairly common modification on the gulf coast because of some low bridges on the ICW and some passes. Some hurricanes have fixed most of that now except for the bridge at Destin, Fl. Not to worry unless you plan to race competitively.

 

[isaksp00]

Here is what the broker said in his post:
By adding a classic drop mainsail in place of an in-mast furling main, he gave up very little in the way of sail area and eliminated the speed-robbing character of a loose-footed furling main.
I can't tell if he is attributing the loss of speed to the loose-footed characteristic OR to the furling (hence unbattened) main.

 

[Jackdaw]

Here is what the broker said in his post:
By adding a classic drop mainsail in place of an in-mast furling main, he gave up very little in the way of sail area and eliminated the speed-robbing character of a loose-footed furling main.
I can't tell if he is attributing the loss of speed to the loose-footed characteristic OR to the furling (hence unbattened) main.

Valid point. But if has nothing to do with the loose footed nature of the sail, why mention it?

He should know better. And hopefully care enough about the sport to not spread miss-truths simply to make a boat he is selling look more attractive.

 

[shemandr]

Here is what the broker said in his post:
By adding a classic drop mainsail in place of an in-mast furling main, he gave up very little in the way of sail area and eliminated the speed-robbing character of a loose-footed furling main.
I can't tell if he is attributing the loss of speed to the loose-footed characteristic OR to the furling (hence unbattened) main.

For part I: I think you gain sail area in going from in mast furling to a classic drop main. Isn't that the advantage of the B&R rig - to increase roach area high on the sail? If you buy into the Spitfire wing model of foil efficiency that should be a very good thing.
For Part II: Maybe he's talking about the so called End Plate Effect. That went out about the same time as Disco. It was argued that you needed a so called shelf to keep higher pressure air on the windward side of the sail spilling under the boom to the low pressure side. I believe this phenomenon has been discredited aerodynamically - which I don't understand due to the involvement of equations. I'll take their word for it.

 

[Jackdaw]

For part I: I think you gain sail area in going from in mast furling to a classic drop main. Isn't that the advantage of the B&R rig - to increase roach area high on the sail? If you buy into the Spitfire wing model of foil efficiency that should be a very good thing.
For Part II: Maybe he's talking about the so called End Plate Effect. That went out about the same time as Disco. It was argued that you needed a so called shelf to keep higher pressure air on the windward side of the sail spilling under the boom to the low pressure side. I believe this phenomenon has been discredited aerodynamically - which I don't understand due to the involvement of equations. I'll take their word for it.

A fuller roach will give more sail area per any given size (PxE) mainsail. Mast furling mainsails suffer because they often have no battens, or vertical ones that both limit how much unsupported luff (aka roach) a mainsail can have. B&R rigs (or any backstayless boat can have even more, but typically they limit it to +10% or the sail runs afoul of PHRF and IMS rating rules and is penalized.

Endplate effect is a very real thing. It cuts down induced drag. But in order for it to work, the max gap must be less than 1-2% of the sail height. So it only works for jibs and not mainsails.

 

[Robb]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who took the time to reply to this post. I've definitely learned a lot and appreciate your inputs. I'll let you all know what I decide in the end. Cheers!