I finally tore my sail in half last Saturday and determined that it's time to get a new one. The sail expo happened to be in town so I went and talked to some folks. I ended up getting a Lee Sail main for just over $1,060 which was 10% off for being at the expo. Just so you all know, Lee will measure the sails for you if they have a rep in your area, which they do up in the SF Bay area and only the stitching is not done in America (materials, etc are American). Anyway, I don't have stock in their company or anything but they were the best value. My question is this: The cost of a third reef is an extra $70, which is not that much, but I could just tell them to make the second reef a bit higher for bad storms; what's the word on the 37C and two or three reefs? I mainly sail out on the Pacific; I do plan to cruise and 20+ knots of winds is pretty common in Half Moon Bay. Josh
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Definitely get the third reef.
We actually have the second and third reef points on our sail. I'm told this is relatively common. You definitely want the third reef for your waters, and cruising plan. David Lady Lillie
We actually have the second and third reef points on our sail. I'm told this is relatively common. You definitely want the third reef for your waters, and cruising plan. David Lady Lillie
Third Reef
I've taken my 37C offshore to Bermuda twice and I've always thanked myself for the third reef. I only rig two reef points for my local sailing, but in big wind and waves get and rig for three reef points.
I've taken my 37C offshore to Bermuda twice and I've always thanked myself for the third reef. I only rig two reef points for my local sailing, but in big wind and waves get and rig for three reef points.
What a woos.
Josh, we sail the H37C in 25 knots with NO reefs. Why would you need three? You know how it blows on Erie(so does David). I have yet to use the second reef. And you know the stories about some of my crossings to Canada. Seriously though I think making the second one deeper makes more sense. Where are you going to put the third reef line? Do you really want three lines hanging down the back of the main and tied to the boom? And it makes flaking just that much harder. That's a heck of a price. And you saw my Lee yankee so you know they do good work. Did you buy the snuffer?
Josh, we sail the H37C in 25 knots with NO reefs. Why would you need three? You know how it blows on Erie(so does David). I have yet to use the second reef. And you know the stories about some of my crossings to Canada. Seriously though I think making the second one deeper makes more sense. Where are you going to put the third reef line? Do you really want three lines hanging down the back of the main and tied to the boom? And it makes flaking just that much harder. That's a heck of a price. And you saw my Lee yankee so you know they do good work. Did you buy the snuffer?
Get a 3rd reef (and practice setting it up)
As Alan and David said: get the 3rd reef! Once you have this option, however, it is important to set it up in advance as most vessels can only be pre-rigged for two (single- or double-line) reef positions. So you either have to settle for 1st+3rd or 2nd +3rd or stay with 1st+2nd (while relying upon your ability to set up and tie in the 3rd reef under nasty condtions...). Flying Dutchman
As Alan and David said: get the 3rd reef! Once you have this option, however, it is important to set it up in advance as most vessels can only be pre-rigged for two (single- or double-line) reef positions. So you either have to settle for 1st+3rd or 2nd +3rd or stay with 1st+2nd (while relying upon your ability to set up and tie in the 3rd reef under nasty condtions...). Flying Dutchman
sails better - and faster - with a reef.
Ed, Next time you're in 25 knots, take notice of your boat speed. Then take a reef. You'll probably find that it not only is more comfortable, it is actually faster. It suprised me the first time, too.
Ed, Next time you're in 25 knots, take notice of your boat speed. Then take a reef. You'll probably find that it not only is more comfortable, it is actually faster. It suprised me the first time, too.
All American materials are NOT equal
Josh: All American made materials are not made equal. When comparing prices you really need to get quotes on exactly the same cloth and weight. If you are looking at a 7oz. cloth you may find several hundred dollars difference from the same loft. I am not telling you there is anything wrong with Lee sails, but you really need to do your homework before deciding that one loft is significantly less expensive than the other. Be sure that you get quote on exactly the same stitching and hardware too. $70 is a good price for an additional reef. I would think that it is well worth the price for sailing in the bay. Be sure that your sail cloth is adequate for your boat and the sailing area.
Josh: All American made materials are not made equal. When comparing prices you really need to get quotes on exactly the same cloth and weight. If you are looking at a 7oz. cloth you may find several hundred dollars difference from the same loft. I am not telling you there is anything wrong with Lee sails, but you really need to do your homework before deciding that one loft is significantly less expensive than the other. Be sure that you get quote on exactly the same stitching and hardware too. $70 is a good price for an additional reef. I would think that it is well worth the price for sailing in the bay. Be sure that your sail cloth is adequate for your boat and the sailing area.
Reefing versus point of sail
I find that Lady Lillie (a '77 h27) will easily carry more sail on a beam to broad reach than she will hard on the wind in heavy weather. We have used the third reef trying to head into, or across 25 to 30 knot winds. Two summers ago, we were on a sleighride of a broad reach on WSW winds from Ashtabula to Erie with our 110, and no reef in the main. When we turned south to round the peninsula and get to the entrance to the bay, we had to go to the third reef with the genny rolled up as we hardened up to go up the channel with the wind dead on our nose. Anything less led to excessive heeling and control issues. With our underpowered 8 hp one lunger, we were motor sailing and tacking into the wind up the channel to make anything like two knots. With the channeling of the wind, I think the gusts were up to 35 knots. And a pretty good chop built up over the 5 mile fetch of the bay. Once we got well into the bay, we were able to ease off to a close reach to the NW corner. By the way, the little bay there in the State Park has to be the best anchor hole on the Lake! 360 degree protection from wind and waves, and excellent holding ground with beautiful foliage all around. We love it! (see the picture in the h27 photo page - it was taken the next day.) I guess the point is that being able to vary your sail plan to fit conditions _and_ your course is desireable for good seamanship. By the way, Lady Lillie heaves to very nicely, even in very heavy weather. This is our preferred way to put in a reef if we didn't figure out we needed one before setting out. (Which is usually the case in the varying winds of our great lake.) David Lady Lillie
I find that Lady Lillie (a '77 h27) will easily carry more sail on a beam to broad reach than she will hard on the wind in heavy weather. We have used the third reef trying to head into, or across 25 to 30 knot winds. Two summers ago, we were on a sleighride of a broad reach on WSW winds from Ashtabula to Erie with our 110, and no reef in the main. When we turned south to round the peninsula and get to the entrance to the bay, we had to go to the third reef with the genny rolled up as we hardened up to go up the channel with the wind dead on our nose. Anything less led to excessive heeling and control issues. With our underpowered 8 hp one lunger, we were motor sailing and tacking into the wind up the channel to make anything like two knots. With the channeling of the wind, I think the gusts were up to 35 knots. And a pretty good chop built up over the 5 mile fetch of the bay. Once we got well into the bay, we were able to ease off to a close reach to the NW corner. By the way, the little bay there in the State Park has to be the best anchor hole on the Lake! 360 degree protection from wind and waves, and excellent holding ground with beautiful foliage all around. We love it! (see the picture in the h27 photo page - it was taken the next day.) I guess the point is that being able to vary your sail plan to fit conditions _and_ your course is desireable for good seamanship. By the way, Lady Lillie heaves to very nicely, even in very heavy weather. This is our preferred way to put in a reef if we didn't figure out we needed one before setting out. (Which is usually the case in the varying winds of our great lake.) David Lady Lillie
Gene's point.
I am not debating the advantage of a reef Gene. I know how much better and faster the H37C sails when not healed. My point is that the main is so small even without a reef. If you need a third reef you should probably be sailing with staysail alone. I am not sure where they put the cringles. But if they were equidistant to the first and second there would hardly be any main left. My North main is 8 oz. by the way. And I would not want to use a sail that light for a storm sail. Which is what I think you are doing with a third reef. But I will defer to you and Alan. Both of you have been offshore. While I have sailed the Pacific and Atlantic many times never with my H37C. So far she has only seen the Great Lakes and 35+.
I am not debating the advantage of a reef Gene. I know how much better and faster the H37C sails when not healed. My point is that the main is so small even without a reef. If you need a third reef you should probably be sailing with staysail alone. I am not sure where they put the cringles. But if they were equidistant to the first and second there would hardly be any main left. My North main is 8 oz. by the way. And I would not want to use a sail that light for a storm sail. Which is what I think you are doing with a third reef. But I will defer to you and Alan. Both of you have been offshore. While I have sailed the Pacific and Atlantic many times never with my H37C. So far she has only seen the Great Lakes and 35+.
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