I replaced my racing sailboat last year with a 1984 H27 cruiserto daysail with my wife. I just assumed the boat would be slow. L guess there is a bit of race blood left in me. When I line up with other boats here in the bay, I find that I pass most boats that are less than 34 feet. I am not talking about Olson 30's or J30's, but the Catalinas Hunters, Cape dory's etc., seem to be no problem. What's up ? Why should this boat overtake others with 7 more feet of water line? Does anyone know the PHRF rating? Has anyone souped up(bottom, sails, rigging) an H27?
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H27 Rating
The PHRF of an h27 is between 210 and 225 so a boat with longer water line should clean your clock if there is good wind. The heavy displacement full keel CD is not a fast boat. With your light boat you will likely pass longer ones only in light air when they can't reach hull speed. Under normal conditions a Catalina 30 would be 40 - 50 seconds per mile faster.
The PHRF of an h27 is between 210 and 225 so a boat with longer water line should clean your clock if there is good wind. The heavy displacement full keel CD is not a fast boat. With your light boat you will likely pass longer ones only in light air when they can't reach hull speed. Under normal conditions a Catalina 30 would be 40 - 50 seconds per mile faster.
Speeds are not too far off on these boats
Its entirely possible he's outsailing them. Strategy and Sail Trim shouldn't be so quickly discounted over a small difference in LWL. He hasn't claimed to beat the hardcore models or much longer hulls. Hitting the puffs and surfing the swells can easily make up that difference if the other competitors don't make use of them. All those PHRF numbers assume clean, uninterupted air.
Its entirely possible he's outsailing them. Strategy and Sail Trim shouldn't be so quickly discounted over a small difference in LWL. He hasn't claimed to beat the hardcore models or much longer hulls. Hitting the puffs and surfing the swells can easily make up that difference if the other competitors don't make use of them. All those PHRF numbers assume clean, uninterupted air.
Great on a reach
There is no doubt that the h27 sails well, especially on a reach. But my experiences passing bigger boats usually relate to our focus on keeping Lady Lillie moving with the right sail plan and trim, and lack of similar effectiveness on the bigger boat. When the wind pipes up on Lake Erie, most boats are carrying too much genny (130 to 155). When they roll it in as the wind picks up, they are getting lousy sail shape. On a 10 mile reach from Put-in-Bay to Sandusky Bay last summer, we moved smartly away from a ~34 footer who were simply not well trimmed. We were making between 5.5 and 6.5 knots (on the GPS) in a fine, 10-20 knot northeaster. Our 110 genny, and the generous roach on our main were driving us very well. After the first few miles, as we passed the lee of Kellys Island, you could see that they were becoming quite serious about getting trounced by a 27 footer. They changed sails, worked on the trim, and finally (after 5 more miles) they were catching up to us. We beat them to the channel buoy, though and waved politely as they motored by us on the run in the bouncy channel into the bay. A fun day, a great sail, and one of those little victories. But, if the 34 footer had been on their game from the start they would have been far ahead of us in short order. David Lady Lillie
There is no doubt that the h27 sails well, especially on a reach. But my experiences passing bigger boats usually relate to our focus on keeping Lady Lillie moving with the right sail plan and trim, and lack of similar effectiveness on the bigger boat. When the wind pipes up on Lake Erie, most boats are carrying too much genny (130 to 155). When they roll it in as the wind picks up, they are getting lousy sail shape. On a 10 mile reach from Put-in-Bay to Sandusky Bay last summer, we moved smartly away from a ~34 footer who were simply not well trimmed. We were making between 5.5 and 6.5 knots (on the GPS) in a fine, 10-20 knot northeaster. Our 110 genny, and the generous roach on our main were driving us very well. After the first few miles, as we passed the lee of Kellys Island, you could see that they were becoming quite serious about getting trounced by a 27 footer. They changed sails, worked on the trim, and finally (after 5 more miles) they were catching up to us. We beat them to the channel buoy, though and waved politely as they motored by us on the run in the bouncy channel into the bay. A fun day, a great sail, and one of those little victories. But, if the 34 footer had been on their game from the start they would have been far ahead of us in short order. David Lady Lillie
reasonably quick
these lil 27's are quite deceiving and tend to move at rated hull speed if not more. I know on accasions that I have trampled some catalinas and hunters, but I'm not sure if they were casually sailing, knew how to sail at all or just simply- they couldn't keep up. The best method to stay ahead is to use a make shift patatoe cannon that launches hotdog buns. Then laying down a wide spread mine field in where the bombers come in (sea gulls) which will most likely keep the competitors away or force them to take cover and not look up.
these lil 27's are quite deceiving and tend to move at rated hull speed if not more. I know on accasions that I have trampled some catalinas and hunters, but I'm not sure if they were casually sailing, knew how to sail at all or just simply- they couldn't keep up. The best method to stay ahead is to use a make shift patatoe cannon that launches hotdog buns. Then laying down a wide spread mine field in where the bombers come in (sea gulls) which will most likely keep the competitors away or force them to take cover and not look up.
Puffs and Swells
Referring to the original post of this thread, I'm happy to see someone else has noticed this too. We smoke 'em with our '84 H27. But the captain is the ' King of Trim.'
Referring to the original post of this thread, I'm happy to see someone else has noticed this too. We smoke 'em with our '84 H27. But the captain is the ' King of Trim.'
Great Chase
As so many of you have already mentioned, sail trim is very important in getting the H-27's up to their speed potential. I've found that in heavy air the boat is very fast and gives me similar results against larger boats, including the new Hunters. Weight is a strong advantage in winds over 15 knots. The rating I got in my fleet was 236. The end of last season I fooled around by replacing my 130% with the original 110%. I think they knew what they were doing when they designed the boat and set up the sail plan. I happened along a H-34 Cherubini pulling our of a nearby marina and we made a race of it. He with his 140-150% and me with my 110. I walked away from him by about 10 boatlengths over 1 mile. I took second in my fleet in 25-30 knots in a CHase Race, where I beat almost everyone in the fleet above me, and most of the fleet above that one. Thank you John Cherubini!!
As so many of you have already mentioned, sail trim is very important in getting the H-27's up to their speed potential. I've found that in heavy air the boat is very fast and gives me similar results against larger boats, including the new Hunters. Weight is a strong advantage in winds over 15 knots. The rating I got in my fleet was 236. The end of last season I fooled around by replacing my 130% with the original 110%. I think they knew what they were doing when they designed the boat and set up the sail plan. I happened along a H-34 Cherubini pulling our of a nearby marina and we made a race of it. He with his 140-150% and me with my 110. I walked away from him by about 10 boatlengths over 1 mile. I took second in my fleet in 25-30 knots in a CHase Race, where I beat almost everyone in the fleet above me, and most of the fleet above that one. Thank you John Cherubini!!
Thanks for your comments
I am glad to hear from others that think the H27 is faster than it should be. I think with a good bottom and some race sails thatt the H27 would be a real PHRF killer. My guess is that the rating is very generous.
I am glad to hear from others that think the H27 is faster than it should be. I think with a good bottom and some race sails thatt the H27 would be a real PHRF killer. My guess is that the rating is very generous.
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