Ok here is the deal,I purchased my hunter last april and have done major restoration work on her. Now that she is home and in the yard i am rewiring her mast. while the boat was in storage a family of squirrels made their home in the mast and knawed all the wires. I have removed the anchor lite wire and runa line down to the bottom. I have also removed the masthead wire and runa line down. Now the question,They knawed thru the vhf cable. Hunter used a heavy grad cable and i was windering if i could use the new white vhf cable and quick connects thru the mast or should i buy the same heavygrade that is in the mast now. I am purchasing the new horizon plus radio with remote mic to put in the cockpit and the radio by the galley. the interior vhf cable is all the white cable and none of that heavy grade. I appreciate all replies
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Rob
Mast rewire
Mast is a major job,time,money so I would explore in the actual rating of both cables for the application since it will be in and out of weather conditions,well my thought might not help but interested in subject as well.
Mast is a major job,time,money so I would explore in the actual rating of both cables for the application since it will be in and out of weather conditions,well my thought might not help but interested in subject as well.
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Ken Palmer
Updated coaxial cable
Back in the 70's and 80's, the best coax used was RG-8. That was bulky and stiff. Modern coax cable can be thinner and more flexible and still retain the electrical properties of it's older cousin. The "white" cable found at your marine store will certainly do the job. Sorry, I don't remember the RG number designation. On the subject of coaxial connectors: I would not recommend the crimp type for marine application. They will fail at the most inopportune time. Soldering a PL-259 connector requires enough heat on the soldering iron and skill, not necessarily in that order. You can get all the information needed to do the job correctly by checking out the ARRL Handbook from your local library, or visit a Radio Shack for books, tools, and parts. Oh yes, I doubt if Radio Shack has the proper coax, and don't get confused with the 75 ohm coax used for TV. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
Back in the 70's and 80's, the best coax used was RG-8. That was bulky and stiff. Modern coax cable can be thinner and more flexible and still retain the electrical properties of it's older cousin. The "white" cable found at your marine store will certainly do the job. Sorry, I don't remember the RG number designation. On the subject of coaxial connectors: I would not recommend the crimp type for marine application. They will fail at the most inopportune time. Soldering a PL-259 connector requires enough heat on the soldering iron and skill, not necessarily in that order. You can get all the information needed to do the job correctly by checking out the ARRL Handbook from your local library, or visit a Radio Shack for books, tools, and parts. Oh yes, I doubt if Radio Shack has the proper coax, and don't get confused with the 75 ohm coax used for TV. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
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Sam Lust
More mast rewire
When I rewired my mastI usee the heavier, lower resistance RG-8, and ran it through an upside down trap through the deck which allows an un-broken wire going from the top of the mast to my radio, which is mounted in the vacinity of the "Nav Station" / engine box. The thinner RG-58 is OK for runs under 60 feet like on power boats (OK but not great) but the experts recommend the heavier wire for longer runs as those found on sail boats where the antenna is mounted atop the mast. The trick to getting best transmission efficiency at the antenna is to reduce or eliminate as many sources of resistance, such as thinner wire and connectors as possible. In my case the only connectors are at the antenna and at the radio, neither of which can be avoided. On my mast I was able to fit the RG-8, 16-2 guage to the masthead light, 16-3 guage to the spreaders for steaming and deck light, as well as a 16-2 guage spare to the spreaders for possible future spreader lights all in the plastic pipe wire chase riveted to the forward inner face of the mast. Do the heavier wire; you'll be rewarded with better radio performance.
When I rewired my mastI usee the heavier, lower resistance RG-8, and ran it through an upside down trap through the deck which allows an un-broken wire going from the top of the mast to my radio, which is mounted in the vacinity of the "Nav Station" / engine box. The thinner RG-58 is OK for runs under 60 feet like on power boats (OK but not great) but the experts recommend the heavier wire for longer runs as those found on sail boats where the antenna is mounted atop the mast. The trick to getting best transmission efficiency at the antenna is to reduce or eliminate as many sources of resistance, such as thinner wire and connectors as possible. In my case the only connectors are at the antenna and at the radio, neither of which can be avoided. On my mast I was able to fit the RG-8, 16-2 guage to the masthead light, 16-3 guage to the spreaders for steaming and deck light, as well as a 16-2 guage spare to the spreaders for possible future spreader lights all in the plastic pipe wire chase riveted to the forward inner face of the mast. Do the heavier wire; you'll be rewarded with better radio performance.
Marine-grade cable
Do NOT go to Radio Shack for wires to run through the mast!!!! Absolutely ALL electrical or electronic cable used for marine applications must be tinned-copper marine spec. The FCC and the USCG require this of builders and with good reason. Anything not SPECIFICALLY intended for marine (i.e., salt-water) applications WILL fail due to electrolysis, unpredictably whether sooner or later and not necessarily with any warning. With so much moisture around, everything metal becomes part of a big battery and corrosion is imminent. Do not try to skimp on this stuff. The cable may not seem important, but look what you spent on what you've got connected to it, and remember why you thought you needed that electronic navigation stuff in the first place. JC
Do NOT go to Radio Shack for wires to run through the mast!!!! Absolutely ALL electrical or electronic cable used for marine applications must be tinned-copper marine spec. The FCC and the USCG require this of builders and with good reason. Anything not SPECIFICALLY intended for marine (i.e., salt-water) applications WILL fail due to electrolysis, unpredictably whether sooner or later and not necessarily with any warning. With so much moisture around, everything metal becomes part of a big battery and corrosion is imminent. Do not try to skimp on this stuff. The cable may not seem important, but look what you spent on what you've got connected to it, and remember why you thought you needed that electronic navigation stuff in the first place. JC
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Anthony Bavuso
upside down trap through deck
Sam: Could you describe the "upside down trap through the deck" that you mentioned running your RG-8 through. I am thinking of doing something similar. Could you describe it? Who made it? Where did you get it. Thanks.
Sam: Could you describe the "upside down trap through the deck" that you mentioned running your RG-8 through. I am thinking of doing something similar. Could you describe it? Who made it? Where did you get it. Thanks.
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Sam Lust
Simple!
It's a 2" kitchen sink chromed brass "J" trap mounted upside-down just to port of the mast pulpit. The outside opening faces down. The wires come in from below, head up and then back down, through the deck where they mate up with their plug-in partners at the compression post. The fitting at the deck is a 2" bronze through hull, The mushroom portion is inside, the threaded length is above deck with the nut securing it and 3M 5200 sealing it. A regular plumbing drain compression nut seals the "J" trap to through hull joint with a rubber washer. Stand upside-down on your head and look under your kitchen sink. You'll see exactly what's sticking up out of my deck. It works just dandy, and allows that one piece antenna (marine grade!!!) cable to make an unbroken run. I'll try to post a picture in the photo Forum.
It's a 2" kitchen sink chromed brass "J" trap mounted upside-down just to port of the mast pulpit. The outside opening faces down. The wires come in from below, head up and then back down, through the deck where they mate up with their plug-in partners at the compression post. The fitting at the deck is a 2" bronze through hull, The mushroom portion is inside, the threaded length is above deck with the nut securing it and 3M 5200 sealing it. A regular plumbing drain compression nut seals the "J" trap to through hull joint with a rubber washer. Stand upside-down on your head and look under your kitchen sink. You'll see exactly what's sticking up out of my deck. It works just dandy, and allows that one piece antenna (marine grade!!!) cable to make an unbroken run. I'll try to post a picture in the photo Forum.
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Terry Arnold
Sam Lust question
Several questions on Sam Lust's kitchen sink trap arrangement. 1. What does the cabin overhead look like where the through hull-trap penetrates? Where do the cables run once inside the cabin? I believe that you say that the coaxial is in one piece from masthead to radio. Which end comes loose when the mast comes down? What happens to the loose end while the mast is off? How much labor to rethread the loose end when putting the mast back up? 2. Has the sticking up trap or the exposed conduit and enclosed wiring been damaged so far? That's a most exposed location with many lines close about. The metal trap would be the most fragile piece of hardware topside I would think. What about uv degradation of the exposed conduit? What does the entrance into the mast look like? I'm not at all sure that this arrangement is an advantage over the original simple connector at the base of the mast arrangement. These kinds of comments would be most understandably posted on the photo forum entry itself and I have asked Phil about providing this capability.
Several questions on Sam Lust's kitchen sink trap arrangement. 1. What does the cabin overhead look like where the through hull-trap penetrates? Where do the cables run once inside the cabin? I believe that you say that the coaxial is in one piece from masthead to radio. Which end comes loose when the mast comes down? What happens to the loose end while the mast is off? How much labor to rethread the loose end when putting the mast back up? 2. Has the sticking up trap or the exposed conduit and enclosed wiring been damaged so far? That's a most exposed location with many lines close about. The metal trap would be the most fragile piece of hardware topside I would think. What about uv degradation of the exposed conduit? What does the entrance into the mast look like? I'm not at all sure that this arrangement is an advantage over the original simple connector at the base of the mast arrangement. These kinds of comments would be most understandably posted on the photo forum entry itself and I have asked Phil about providing this capability.
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jim logan
Including the kitchen sink
I've got to say it - those of us on the forum for a while know that Sam has done almost everything that can be done to a H33 - now he's included the kitchen sink! way to go, Sam, thanks for your help whenever someone asks.
I've got to say it - those of us on the forum for a while know that Sam has done almost everything that can be done to a H33 - now he's included the kitchen sink! way to go, Sam, thanks for your help whenever someone asks.
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Sam Lust
Valid Questions
I figured I'd get a few raised eyebrows on this one. The questions are all completely valid and I believe I considered all of them as I put this together. I can't claim complete authorship on this one though. I saw it on a Mega-Money "yacht", I think a Saber, although I can't remember for certain, at a show some years back and it just seemed like a natural for me. Wire ends and connections are out where they can be inspected and repaired as required, yet inside the boat away from the weather. I had done this on a previous boat and knew what mistakes not to make this time. The previous owner of my 33 had run an additional lighting wire for a deck light up the compression post, out the top of the compression post and through the deck where it plugged into it's mate which hung out the aft side of the mast where it met the pulpit. Obviously done with the mast up. Suffice it to say the connection was subject to corrosion and damage, and even with the supposedly proper "clamshell" wire through deck fitting the wire through the deck leaked. After I got the rotted plywood taken care of the spot appeared good for the trap. The wires come out of the mast through 3 approximately 5/8" holes. I wasn't able to find grommets at the time so the wires are wrapped with self amalgamating rigging tape which holds it in place and prevents chafe. The small section of wire visible between the mast and trap are covered with the inexpensive black flexible conduit you see used all over the place. What you see inside is the mushroom end of the 2" bronze through hull just to port of the compression post with a small bundle of plugs and their wires which then enter the compression post and continue on to the bilge as they did originally. The Antenna cable however, turns aft and is run in "Panduit" plastic snap closed conduit. This has a very powerful self adhesive which holds it very firmly to the molded overhead. It's fairly unobtrusive, although you know by now that I value function far above cosmetic concerns. The junction will eventually get a small wooden cover when I get a free moment. I don't think it looks bad at all and no guest has ever noticed it till I pointed it out. The Panduit runs aft in two pieces, breaking at the overhead "dish rack" and continuing to the aft bulkhead where the radio is mounted. (I guess this will be added to my upcoming Photo Forum post on my electrical panel move, which means a delay for more pictures.) When taking the mast down the antenna cable detaches from the radio, out of the panduit, and the trap is pulled out with the wiring. It is coiled, double bagged in black plastic and lashed to the mast with the opening down so water, ice and sun are not a problem. The through hull is covered with plastic held in place with the compression nut so water can't enter. In or out the wiring takes well under 5 minutes. Nothing involved in the system has experienced any damage. It was all situated with fair leads firmly in mind. With all the other lines and such exiting the mast at it's base I have to be careful stumbling around there anyway, just as we all do. I've had much greater problems with sheets snagging on the factory installed mushroom ventilators. (Another upcoming project). I can understand anyones concerns about a modification like this, and it's probably not for everyone. I insist on having immediate access to connections such as these. The connections inside the mast were giving me problems anyway and I believe I was getting water coming in through the original hole under the pulpit, which is now epoxy filled, and this just became the next step. And yes, I agree, having capability for comments in the Photo Forum would be excellent.
I figured I'd get a few raised eyebrows on this one. The questions are all completely valid and I believe I considered all of them as I put this together. I can't claim complete authorship on this one though. I saw it on a Mega-Money "yacht", I think a Saber, although I can't remember for certain, at a show some years back and it just seemed like a natural for me. Wire ends and connections are out where they can be inspected and repaired as required, yet inside the boat away from the weather. I had done this on a previous boat and knew what mistakes not to make this time. The previous owner of my 33 had run an additional lighting wire for a deck light up the compression post, out the top of the compression post and through the deck where it plugged into it's mate which hung out the aft side of the mast where it met the pulpit. Obviously done with the mast up. Suffice it to say the connection was subject to corrosion and damage, and even with the supposedly proper "clamshell" wire through deck fitting the wire through the deck leaked. After I got the rotted plywood taken care of the spot appeared good for the trap. The wires come out of the mast through 3 approximately 5/8" holes. I wasn't able to find grommets at the time so the wires are wrapped with self amalgamating rigging tape which holds it in place and prevents chafe. The small section of wire visible between the mast and trap are covered with the inexpensive black flexible conduit you see used all over the place. What you see inside is the mushroom end of the 2" bronze through hull just to port of the compression post with a small bundle of plugs and their wires which then enter the compression post and continue on to the bilge as they did originally. The Antenna cable however, turns aft and is run in "Panduit" plastic snap closed conduit. This has a very powerful self adhesive which holds it very firmly to the molded overhead. It's fairly unobtrusive, although you know by now that I value function far above cosmetic concerns. The junction will eventually get a small wooden cover when I get a free moment. I don't think it looks bad at all and no guest has ever noticed it till I pointed it out. The Panduit runs aft in two pieces, breaking at the overhead "dish rack" and continuing to the aft bulkhead where the radio is mounted. (I guess this will be added to my upcoming Photo Forum post on my electrical panel move, which means a delay for more pictures.) When taking the mast down the antenna cable detaches from the radio, out of the panduit, and the trap is pulled out with the wiring. It is coiled, double bagged in black plastic and lashed to the mast with the opening down so water, ice and sun are not a problem. The through hull is covered with plastic held in place with the compression nut so water can't enter. In or out the wiring takes well under 5 minutes. Nothing involved in the system has experienced any damage. It was all situated with fair leads firmly in mind. With all the other lines and such exiting the mast at it's base I have to be careful stumbling around there anyway, just as we all do. I've had much greater problems with sheets snagging on the factory installed mushroom ventilators. (Another upcoming project). I can understand anyones concerns about a modification like this, and it's probably not for everyone. I insist on having immediate access to connections such as these. The connections inside the mast were giving me problems anyway and I believe I was getting water coming in through the original hole under the pulpit, which is now epoxy filled, and this just became the next step. And yes, I agree, having capability for comments in the Photo Forum would be excellent.
C
Capt John Edwards
Thanks for all the input
Thanks for all the answers and input. I am presently wrapping up the installation of my new wires in the mast. I did my research and found the new vhf 8u wire is proper for carrying my signal requirments and such an have installed it. As for the deck connecters I scrapped them based on Sams recommendation and my history with them. I removed the compression,which was a absolute bear to do since it hasn't been taken out since the boat was built with the amount of electrolis on the aluminum base. I cleaned and painted all parts and the deck mast plate. I did notice that the compression post is hollow and its matching hollow spot on the deck plate line up. Therefore I cut out the deck inbetween and cut out a hole in the base of the compression post below sole level and above the base bracket. all wires will run thru the mast thru the compression post to a connection board in the bilge. no more deck connectors and no more leaks. It was a bitch of a project but it was worth it especially finding wires where chafe and wear had worn thru. I am now an expert in this matter so please feel fee to contact me. Thanks
Thanks for all the answers and input. I am presently wrapping up the installation of my new wires in the mast. I did my research and found the new vhf 8u wire is proper for carrying my signal requirments and such an have installed it. As for the deck connecters I scrapped them based on Sams recommendation and my history with them. I removed the compression,which was a absolute bear to do since it hasn't been taken out since the boat was built with the amount of electrolis on the aluminum base. I cleaned and painted all parts and the deck mast plate. I did notice that the compression post is hollow and its matching hollow spot on the deck plate line up. Therefore I cut out the deck inbetween and cut out a hole in the base of the compression post below sole level and above the base bracket. all wires will run thru the mast thru the compression post to a connection board in the bilge. no more deck connectors and no more leaks. It was a bitch of a project but it was worth it especially finding wires where chafe and wear had worn thru. I am now an expert in this matter so please feel fee to contact me. Thanks
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