I am looking at a catalina 30 (77) to buy any ideas what to look for? Any problems with a 1977 catalina 30?How easy is it to repair delaminting fiberglassat the chain plates?The owner has put a new engine in (97) and many other up dates . He is asking 25,000 .I know the boat only books for around 15-20,000.Any ideas?
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A
Allen
I have a 1977
Hey Pat, I just bought a 1977 C-30 earlier this year & I really like the boat. I definitely wouldn't have paid $25k for it unless it was absolutely flawless with lots of updates & a good sail inventory. Problems I've come accross are: 1. Bad rudder - needed replacement 2. Bad motor - needed replacement 3. Keel bolts badly rusted 4. Some minor blistering 5. Starboard chainplate had stress fractures in wood from aft lower shroud 6. Sail inventory was weak & the canvas work needed replacing Positives: All of the problems above I knew about beforehand & I was able to negotiate a very low price. After all of the repairs & upgrades I'll be into it for around $21k. Assuming the boat is in perfect condition, I'd either talk him down to around $15 to $18k or start looking at other boats. There are a lot of them out there, and if you find one cheap that needs work, you can refurbish it the way you like. Good luck!
Hey Pat, I just bought a 1977 C-30 earlier this year & I really like the boat. I definitely wouldn't have paid $25k for it unless it was absolutely flawless with lots of updates & a good sail inventory. Problems I've come accross are: 1. Bad rudder - needed replacement 2. Bad motor - needed replacement 3. Keel bolts badly rusted 4. Some minor blistering 5. Starboard chainplate had stress fractures in wood from aft lower shroud 6. Sail inventory was weak & the canvas work needed replacing Positives: All of the problems above I knew about beforehand & I was able to negotiate a very low price. After all of the repairs & upgrades I'll be into it for around $21k. Assuming the boat is in perfect condition, I'd either talk him down to around $15 to $18k or start looking at other boats. There are a lot of them out there, and if you find one cheap that needs work, you can refurbish it the way you like. Good luck!
L
LaDonna Bubak - CatalinaOwners
Seems a little high
Or maybe the owner is! Ha! Seriously, $25K for what you've described seems high to me. I'd counter with a lowball offer and see what happens. If he rejects it, let it go. Let him know what your absolute highest offer would be and walk away. If he sits long enough with his high price, he'll probably realize he's being unrealistic & call you. There are lots of C30s out there at fantastic prices. I met a guy who bought his C27 for $1000 and it was in pretty decent shape! Keep looking - you'll find it. LaDonna BTW, if the deck is delaminating, that pretty much decreases the value of the boat as much as a new engine would increase it. They're a real bear to fix & not cheap. Good luck!
Or maybe the owner is! Ha! Seriously, $25K for what you've described seems high to me. I'd counter with a lowball offer and see what happens. If he rejects it, let it go. Let him know what your absolute highest offer would be and walk away. If he sits long enough with his high price, he'll probably realize he's being unrealistic & call you. There are lots of C30s out there at fantastic prices. I met a guy who bought his C27 for $1000 and it was in pretty decent shape! Keep looking - you'll find it. LaDonna BTW, if the deck is delaminating, that pretty much decreases the value of the boat as much as a new engine would increase it. They're a real bear to fix & not cheap. Good luck!
C
Chris Gonzales
Opinions are like......
Pat, Your question, as most do in this forum, will garner a ton of conflicting opinions. Everyone has one, right? And most often people are quick to say “buy low, buy low” and criticize the asking price of a certain age boat without seeing it or getting any details as to specific condition or equipment. For example, you have a fairly new engine. What is it? How many hours? No one can give you a truly valuable opinion without more specific information even on this ONE area of the boat, so I would disregard the “too high a price” opinions until they can be validated with facts and comparisons. I have owned three sailboats, all 7-10 years old when I purchased them. They all really needed new rigging, new sails, and other refitting to be truly seaworthy (safe). For my fourth sailboat I purchased a ‘79 C30 TRBS in February for $20,000 and then spent an additional $1,000 transporting her up here to SF Bay. She was in very good condition overall; the hull was perfect, new Edson wheel steering, rigged for and included a spinnaker. She looked good and smelled good below. No leaks, no delams, no cracks. The little 5411 diesel ran fine. So except for upgrades and mods that one would normally perform on a 20+ year old boat to make her seaworthy and look sharp, she was in good shape. I replaced all rigging (standing and running), new furler, new jib and main sails, new opening port in the head, new interior cushions/upholstery inside, new head, Catalina chainplate upgrades, replaced the “thru-hull” valves, new Origo 3000 alcohol stove, bottom job. I have yet to: replace the permeated sanitation hoses, reset the two raising bulkheads pulled up by the upper shrouds, install new window curtains, rigid boom vang, cockpit cushions, paint the deck (optional) , and varnish bright work. When all done I will have about $17,000 invested after the original $20,000 purchase price. $37,000 for a ‘79? Yeah, but she will sail and sail and sail and look almost new doing it. I know everything about this boat, now, and feel very secure sailing her. A year or two down the road I may upgrade to a new, larger diesel but motoring is not a high priority, anyway. The late 80’s to early 90’s C30’s average in the low $40,000 range around here. Actually, they are not too easily located. And again, most sailors will not have replaced rigging or sails on these boats and replacing standing rigging on a SF bay sailed boat every 7-10 years is VERY important. Toss in some new upholstery, maybe some engine work and perform some neglected maintenance, etc, and you could easily spend $10,000 or more. Now you have $50-55,000 invested. I figured if I went that route I wouldn’t really have much of a different boat for the difference of $13-18,000. And compare with the price of a NEW C30 for $100K+ what more do I really get for the additional $63,000? New is nice, but not THAT nice. I didn’t buy my C30 as an investment, but same as anyone else, if and when I sell I would want to get as much as I could. If you look around (especially on the net, yachtworld.com always has lots of C30’s) you will find tons of mid 70s to early 80’s C30s for $17,000-25,000 but also a good number of the same age bracket that have been refitted and updated selling in the $30-40,000 range. You just can’t judge the value of these boats unless you see them and know what’s in them. If you want your older C30 to be the best she can be you will have to spend the money one way or the other, either when you buy her because the refitting has already been done or later doing it yourself. The only other options is to “steal” one from someone who doesn’t appreciate the value of the boat or is in some distress situation to sell her for less than she is worth. These, though are probably less likely to be found. Feel free to write me at cg2chris@pacbell.net and I will be happy to share more. Chris
Pat, Your question, as most do in this forum, will garner a ton of conflicting opinions. Everyone has one, right? And most often people are quick to say “buy low, buy low” and criticize the asking price of a certain age boat without seeing it or getting any details as to specific condition or equipment. For example, you have a fairly new engine. What is it? How many hours? No one can give you a truly valuable opinion without more specific information even on this ONE area of the boat, so I would disregard the “too high a price” opinions until they can be validated with facts and comparisons. I have owned three sailboats, all 7-10 years old when I purchased them. They all really needed new rigging, new sails, and other refitting to be truly seaworthy (safe). For my fourth sailboat I purchased a ‘79 C30 TRBS in February for $20,000 and then spent an additional $1,000 transporting her up here to SF Bay. She was in very good condition overall; the hull was perfect, new Edson wheel steering, rigged for and included a spinnaker. She looked good and smelled good below. No leaks, no delams, no cracks. The little 5411 diesel ran fine. So except for upgrades and mods that one would normally perform on a 20+ year old boat to make her seaworthy and look sharp, she was in good shape. I replaced all rigging (standing and running), new furler, new jib and main sails, new opening port in the head, new interior cushions/upholstery inside, new head, Catalina chainplate upgrades, replaced the “thru-hull” valves, new Origo 3000 alcohol stove, bottom job. I have yet to: replace the permeated sanitation hoses, reset the two raising bulkheads pulled up by the upper shrouds, install new window curtains, rigid boom vang, cockpit cushions, paint the deck (optional) , and varnish bright work. When all done I will have about $17,000 invested after the original $20,000 purchase price. $37,000 for a ‘79? Yeah, but she will sail and sail and sail and look almost new doing it. I know everything about this boat, now, and feel very secure sailing her. A year or two down the road I may upgrade to a new, larger diesel but motoring is not a high priority, anyway. The late 80’s to early 90’s C30’s average in the low $40,000 range around here. Actually, they are not too easily located. And again, most sailors will not have replaced rigging or sails on these boats and replacing standing rigging on a SF bay sailed boat every 7-10 years is VERY important. Toss in some new upholstery, maybe some engine work and perform some neglected maintenance, etc, and you could easily spend $10,000 or more. Now you have $50-55,000 invested. I figured if I went that route I wouldn’t really have much of a different boat for the difference of $13-18,000. And compare with the price of a NEW C30 for $100K+ what more do I really get for the additional $63,000? New is nice, but not THAT nice. I didn’t buy my C30 as an investment, but same as anyone else, if and when I sell I would want to get as much as I could. If you look around (especially on the net, yachtworld.com always has lots of C30’s) you will find tons of mid 70s to early 80’s C30s for $17,000-25,000 but also a good number of the same age bracket that have been refitted and updated selling in the $30-40,000 range. You just can’t judge the value of these boats unless you see them and know what’s in them. If you want your older C30 to be the best she can be you will have to spend the money one way or the other, either when you buy her because the refitting has already been done or later doing it yourself. The only other options is to “steal” one from someone who doesn’t appreciate the value of the boat or is in some distress situation to sell her for less than she is worth. These, though are probably less likely to be found. Feel free to write me at cg2chris@pacbell.net and I will be happy to share more. Chris
J
Jim
Exe?
Price seems a little steep - I have an '84 with a new engine in 00 for much less (and no delamination). It must be otherwise perfect?
Price seems a little steep - I have an '84 with a new engine in 00 for much less (and no delamination). It must be otherwise perfect?
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Mike Turner
Deck, Chainplates and Rig
I agree with some of the other posts -- an asking price of $25K on a '77 C30 seems high. I got my '81 for $17,500 and it didn't have any chainplate/ delamination problems. Sounds like the current owner wants to recoup investment in the newer engine, and perhaps other upgrades. I also agree with with other posts that you'll hear a variety of opinions on purchase price versus condition.; if you're up to the repairs and the boat is basically sound (and C30s are) you can use items like these to negotiate a "runaway" price. Regardless of the boat you look at, here's a few things to look for: * Chainplates -- you mention delamination, which already is a problem. The older C30s had a weaker attachment system for the lower shrouds than later models (eyebolt versus later U-bolts). Check to see if yours has been upgraded. You should thoroughly check out all attachments above and below deck, particularly the attachment of the bulkheads to the hull with special attention to the starboard side (the bulkheads are smaller than the ones to port). Make sure everything's secure. * Deck delamination: Besides the chainplate problems, look for deck depression under the mast and cracking of the deck around the mast and of the interior overhead at the top of the compression post. Catalina has excellent instructions on the repair if it's needed. Also check the very bottom of the compression post in the keel for softness/rot - again, the factory has great instructions on the repair. * Bilge: check the bottom of the bilge to insure the fiberglass is in good shape -- it's cored with plywood, which is known to absorb water, delaminate and rot. * Keel bolts: The '77 is pre-stainless keel bolts; check for corrosion. * If the boat has wheel steering, check for wear in the cables/sheeves. I had a cable snap 1 month after purchase and wound up rebuilding the system -- tedious but I learned a lot. * Motor mounts -- may have been modified when repowered. Check for secure mounting. There's lots others but that's a start. One good thing about the C30 (among many!) is that it's basically a very sound design -- any of the above can be repaired and you'll have a solid boat, so even if they're present you can use to negotiate a lower price, so long as you're up to the challenges of repair. Good luck! Mike Turner S/V Amity
I agree with some of the other posts -- an asking price of $25K on a '77 C30 seems high. I got my '81 for $17,500 and it didn't have any chainplate/ delamination problems. Sounds like the current owner wants to recoup investment in the newer engine, and perhaps other upgrades. I also agree with with other posts that you'll hear a variety of opinions on purchase price versus condition.; if you're up to the repairs and the boat is basically sound (and C30s are) you can use items like these to negotiate a "runaway" price. Regardless of the boat you look at, here's a few things to look for: * Chainplates -- you mention delamination, which already is a problem. The older C30s had a weaker attachment system for the lower shrouds than later models (eyebolt versus later U-bolts). Check to see if yours has been upgraded. You should thoroughly check out all attachments above and below deck, particularly the attachment of the bulkheads to the hull with special attention to the starboard side (the bulkheads are smaller than the ones to port). Make sure everything's secure. * Deck delamination: Besides the chainplate problems, look for deck depression under the mast and cracking of the deck around the mast and of the interior overhead at the top of the compression post. Catalina has excellent instructions on the repair if it's needed. Also check the very bottom of the compression post in the keel for softness/rot - again, the factory has great instructions on the repair. * Bilge: check the bottom of the bilge to insure the fiberglass is in good shape -- it's cored with plywood, which is known to absorb water, delaminate and rot. * Keel bolts: The '77 is pre-stainless keel bolts; check for corrosion. * If the boat has wheel steering, check for wear in the cables/sheeves. I had a cable snap 1 month after purchase and wound up rebuilding the system -- tedious but I learned a lot. * Motor mounts -- may have been modified when repowered. Check for secure mounting. There's lots others but that's a start. One good thing about the C30 (among many!) is that it's basically a very sound design -- any of the above can be repaired and you'll have a solid boat, so even if they're present you can use to negotiate a lower price, so long as you're up to the challenges of repair. Good luck! Mike Turner S/V Amity
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Michael Hagerman
Consider Mine!
We have a 1977 Catalina 30 with 2 new sails (2000 and 2001), pressurized water, hot water heater, CD player, new wiring, new hatchway doors, bowspirit with anchor roller, mast/rigging new in 1997, many improvements over the original, etc. Our 10-month cabin boy mandates a wheel-driven boat, so we're going to be putting it on the market this summer. We'll be in the $18,000 range. Interested? Send me an e-mail at mchagermanesq@msn.com.
We have a 1977 Catalina 30 with 2 new sails (2000 and 2001), pressurized water, hot water heater, CD player, new wiring, new hatchway doors, bowspirit with anchor roller, mast/rigging new in 1997, many improvements over the original, etc. Our 10-month cabin boy mandates a wheel-driven boat, so we're going to be putting it on the market this summer. We'll be in the $18,000 range. Interested? Send me an e-mail at mchagermanesq@msn.com.
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Dave
Same price, newer boat
For very little more than $25,000 you could have a much newer boat (like 5-6 years). Please drop me an e-mail offline at david.ullrich@ferguson.com if you might be interested in a 1983 Tall Rig.
For very little more than $25,000 you could have a much newer boat (like 5-6 years). Please drop me an e-mail offline at david.ullrich@ferguson.com if you might be interested in a 1983 Tall Rig.
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