I've been looking to to put my toe in the water, sailing-wise, and know that the first boat I buy won't be the one I eventually want, so I thought I'd start cheap (at least I hope so..&^). So there's a 1972 17' in the local paper, with 6hp outboard for $1000 w/trailer and 2 sails it says. I know it's old, is it likely to be worth that much? Is it a decent boat to start out with? Could I sail it single-handed? Anything to look for when and if I inspect it? I have a freshwater put-in down the road, and Chesapeake bay about an hour away. I would be most grateful for any help sorting this out. CD
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T
Todd
the keel
the keel is the cause of most problems on this boat. It is a swing keel that when retracted makes a sort of shoal draft. the keels rist inside and the coating swells and cracks. there is no place to get new keels and old ones need to be repaired. I saw that boat and would have bought it if I didnt just buyu one.
the keel is the cause of most problems on this boat. It is a swing keel that when retracted makes a sort of shoal draft. the keels rist inside and the coating swells and cracks. there is no place to get new keels and old ones need to be repaired. I saw that boat and would have bought it if I didnt just buyu one.
S
seedy
that boat?
You saw the exact boat, in the Bargaineer? Did you mean that you inspected it and it was okay or that you saw just the ad? Would be a great help to have had it looked at by someone who knows what to look at. CD
You saw the exact boat, in the Bargaineer? Did you mean that you inspected it and it was okay or that you saw just the ad? Would be a great help to have had it looked at by someone who knows what to look at. CD
M
Mike
Check List
The boat is made up of systems. Check each one carefully. 1 Standing rigging, check for frayed cables, loose or worn fittings, corrosion around compression fittings, frozen turn buckles etc. 2 Spars, check mast and boom for straightness, freedom from corrosion, are attachment holes worn over large, are all attachments tight, check the mast head to be sure the halyard sheaves are in good condition and that the halyards will run freely. 3 Sails, Check for chaffing wear, is the cloth old and weak, is there wear where the cloth wraps around the head rope. Are the snaps for the jib corroded solid or are they easy to open and close. You might have to take that sail down quickly sometime. 4 Running rigging, are the sheets in good shape, if not this is not too expensive to cure. How about the fairleads, deck eyes, locking cams and cleats, are they all there, working and solidly mounted? 5 Hull, Check both out of and in the water. Is there evidence of major repair, any bulges, bumps or uneven areas? Are there any cracks or other signs of stress or improper trailering? Are all attachments tight and solid? 6 Deck, cockpit and cabin. Are all components solid and fit, are there cracks or signs of delamination. are the portlights sound and leak free, Does the companionway, pop top, fore hatch all seem OK? Are all interior fixtures there, table, cushions and so forth? 7 Electrical. What condition are the running, anchor and masthead lights in? Is the wiring corrosion free? How old is the battery and does it have a charging system? Check the fuses in the distribution panel, are they corroded into the fuse holders? Is there a cabin light and does it work? 8 Keel and Winch. How badly rusted is the keel, it is almost always rusted but how bad? Check the keel winch for proper operation and the cable for frayed areas. With the boat in the water does the pivot bolt leak. 9 Other component parts. Check the rudder, is it heavy, if so it is probably waterlogged. Check to make sure it has all parts (ie. tiller) and that the gudgeons and pintles are straight and mounted solid. Check the outboard motor mount, does it still have a working lift spring and does it raise and lower easily with the motor mounted. Check the porta potty if so equipped. When was the last time that thing was emptied???? Finally, Check the boat rigged and in the water. Does she sit straight or list to one side? If so is it because of improper stowage or a heavy side due to a major repair. Does the the mast stand fair and straight or skew to one side, if so is it rigging adjustments. DOES IT LEAK? Check the bilge for signs of leakage, I would personally avoid a boat that has a high water mark in the bilge. Check to see that all the little things are there, anchor, compass, boathook, dock lines, fenders, bilge pump or bucket, Coast Guard required flares, PFD's as required by law. All these little thing are going to add up to quite an unexpected bill. Yeah, it's a lot to check but when you’re out there, EVERYTHING is safety related. Happy Sails To You, Mike
The boat is made up of systems. Check each one carefully. 1 Standing rigging, check for frayed cables, loose or worn fittings, corrosion around compression fittings, frozen turn buckles etc. 2 Spars, check mast and boom for straightness, freedom from corrosion, are attachment holes worn over large, are all attachments tight, check the mast head to be sure the halyard sheaves are in good condition and that the halyards will run freely. 3 Sails, Check for chaffing wear, is the cloth old and weak, is there wear where the cloth wraps around the head rope. Are the snaps for the jib corroded solid or are they easy to open and close. You might have to take that sail down quickly sometime. 4 Running rigging, are the sheets in good shape, if not this is not too expensive to cure. How about the fairleads, deck eyes, locking cams and cleats, are they all there, working and solidly mounted? 5 Hull, Check both out of and in the water. Is there evidence of major repair, any bulges, bumps or uneven areas? Are there any cracks or other signs of stress or improper trailering? Are all attachments tight and solid? 6 Deck, cockpit and cabin. Are all components solid and fit, are there cracks or signs of delamination. are the portlights sound and leak free, Does the companionway, pop top, fore hatch all seem OK? Are all interior fixtures there, table, cushions and so forth? 7 Electrical. What condition are the running, anchor and masthead lights in? Is the wiring corrosion free? How old is the battery and does it have a charging system? Check the fuses in the distribution panel, are they corroded into the fuse holders? Is there a cabin light and does it work? 8 Keel and Winch. How badly rusted is the keel, it is almost always rusted but how bad? Check the keel winch for proper operation and the cable for frayed areas. With the boat in the water does the pivot bolt leak. 9 Other component parts. Check the rudder, is it heavy, if so it is probably waterlogged. Check to make sure it has all parts (ie. tiller) and that the gudgeons and pintles are straight and mounted solid. Check the outboard motor mount, does it still have a working lift spring and does it raise and lower easily with the motor mounted. Check the porta potty if so equipped. When was the last time that thing was emptied???? Finally, Check the boat rigged and in the water. Does she sit straight or list to one side? If so is it because of improper stowage or a heavy side due to a major repair. Does the the mast stand fair and straight or skew to one side, if so is it rigging adjustments. DOES IT LEAK? Check the bilge for signs of leakage, I would personally avoid a boat that has a high water mark in the bilge. Check to see that all the little things are there, anchor, compass, boathook, dock lines, fenders, bilge pump or bucket, Coast Guard required flares, PFD's as required by law. All these little thing are going to add up to quite an unexpected bill. Yeah, it's a lot to check but when you’re out there, EVERYTHING is safety related. Happy Sails To You, Mike
S
seedy
Thanks Mike
Wow, thanks for that exhaustive and exhausting list. I'm going to print it out and take it with me when I go shopping, even if this particular boat is gone by now. I know that took you a while to type out, and appreciate very much the effort and time. If I have a look at it I'll probably be back with finer questions. Great to find a resource like this forum. CD
Wow, thanks for that exhaustive and exhausting list. I'm going to print it out and take it with me when I go shopping, even if this particular boat is gone by now. I know that took you a while to type out, and appreciate very much the effort and time. If I have a look at it I'll probably be back with finer questions. Great to find a resource like this forum. CD
T
Todd
What do you want for next to nothing??
The boat must obviously be a fixer upper. But not always the case with a boat so inexpensive.You could have asked the owner to take you (and an experienced sailor friend if you do not know too much) out for a sail. I know a boat yard owner that has a 1972 venture? 24 foot MacGregor that he wanted $1500 for. The boat was in such sailable shape that his buddy is using it to race every Wed. The boat will be back on the market probably at the end of the season. The boat has good sails, rigging and hardware. But the interior is gutted and has only a port-a-potty, but is still a great starter boat. Now if you wanted to have a marine surveyor check out a potential boat you wish to purchase you can expect to pay about $20 and up per foot. Would you want to pay $500 to survey a $1500 boat?? Mike gave you a great list too!! I have printed it out myself. I lost the chance to get a good boat free because I hesitated at a bad keel. I have one too many projects now. I
The boat must obviously be a fixer upper. But not always the case with a boat so inexpensive.You could have asked the owner to take you (and an experienced sailor friend if you do not know too much) out for a sail. I know a boat yard owner that has a 1972 venture? 24 foot MacGregor that he wanted $1500 for. The boat was in such sailable shape that his buddy is using it to race every Wed. The boat will be back on the market probably at the end of the season. The boat has good sails, rigging and hardware. But the interior is gutted and has only a port-a-potty, but is still a great starter boat. Now if you wanted to have a marine surveyor check out a potential boat you wish to purchase you can expect to pay about $20 and up per foot. Would you want to pay $500 to survey a $1500 boat?? Mike gave you a great list too!! I have printed it out myself. I lost the chance to get a good boat free because I hesitated at a bad keel. I have one too many projects now. I
S
seedy
Not much, but no headaches
The boat was sold when I called. I'm not a wealthy person, and I wanted to go sailing, so I looked for a cheap boat. But I also know that a cheap anything means that there might be an expensive repair lurking, which could "keelhaul" my finances. So I asked for help. When I shop for my first Herreshoff I'll hire a surveyor, but for now it should be obvious that I'm on my own here. I was actually hoping to find a nice sailing skiff in the 15-17' range in wood, but I know that it's unlikely that I would find a servicable wooden boat within my price range.
The boat was sold when I called. I'm not a wealthy person, and I wanted to go sailing, so I looked for a cheap boat. But I also know that a cheap anything means that there might be an expensive repair lurking, which could "keelhaul" my finances. So I asked for help. When I shop for my first Herreshoff I'll hire a surveyor, but for now it should be obvious that I'm on my own here. I was actually hoping to find a nice sailing skiff in the 15-17' range in wood, but I know that it's unlikely that I would find a servicable wooden boat within my price range.
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