16A breakers
- Thread starter roadkill1964
- Start date
Because the breaker is not rated for DC. From eepower.com:
"Though AC and DC breakers appear similar in form and function, internally they operate very differently. During an overload, the internal contacts of both AC and DC circuit breakers separate to protect the circuit. However, as the contacts pull apart from each other, an arc will form as the current jumps across the air gap created. Contact arcing is an electrical arc that occurs when opening and closing circuit breakers.
As the arc continues to jump across the air gap, the current will continue to flow through the circuit. These arcs must be extinguished quickly.
The ways in which AC and DC breakers are designed to extinguish the arc are very different and this is why AC and DC breakers are not interchangeable. Only breakers that are labeled as DC rated should be used for DC applications.
An AC-rated breaker should never be used in a DC circuit. AC circuit breakers are not designed to handle the problems of arcing associated with DC. DC circuit breakers include additional arc-extinguishing measures to dissipate the electrical arc when opening and closing and elongate the device lifetime."
AC current cycles to zero every 1/120th of a second, reducing the arc length. DC power does not, resulting in a long arc.
Granted there are different types of circuit breakers. Some may be more appropriate for some applications than others. However there is nothing in the article you cited that discusses the particular breaker the OP has. And if there really was a bright line between AC and DC breakers, why would Blue Sea Systems, a well respected company, market their breakers as appropriate for both AC and DC systems? If nothing else the lawyers would be all over them to stop if their breakers weren't compatible with both systems.
Beneteau is a large well respected boat builder. It boggles the mind to think, they would use inappropriate OCPDs in their boats (although, one does scratch one's head about the switch on the DC negative and all the soldered connections).
The odd sizes are due to the differences in European 220v AC systems and the 110v AC North American systems.
Do you have a reference to the specific breaker the OP is asking about that says it is not appropriate for DC systems? Or is your opinion based on a generic article about different types of OCPD devices?
Dave, as I explained, and provided context for, there is a difference and it is a bright line. The reference is the label on the breaker. The OP's breaker clearly states, as it should, the amperage, voltage and type of current that it's rated for. Give me a day or so and I can probably locate an NEC or NFPA reference that specifies a breaker must be rated for the type of current it is used on. if it doesn't matter, then why rate them?
Blue Sea markets their breakers for both AC and DC because they designed their breakers to work with both types of current. They are more expensive - I assume that is partly why. My experience has been that the Euro breakers are specifically AC or DC, because that's how they're designed. The point is that breakers are designed for specific applications. Go to Home Depot, you will not find a DC-rated breaker. Can you use it? Sure, at your own risk. But you shouldn't for the very clear reasons already given.
There are plenty of examples of well respected manufacturers installing inappropriate equipment, that's not even surprising anymore. Just because Beneteau did something doesn't make it a good idea.
Finally, consider this. The OP's breaker is rated for 6A @ 250V. That's 1500 watts. If he really needs a 6A breaker at 12VDC, that's 72 watts. Big difference. Here's my opinion: that breaker isn't going to trip when he needs it.
Wow, this stirred up the conversation.... the dc panel (in my nav station) is 12V system to my knowledge (I'm going to the boat tomorrow, will verify it), I did not realized there are both 6 and 16 Amp breakers on my boat, will map out what systems are on what breaker, that may make things clearer.
My issue is that I have one with broken toggle switch handle and few other ones that are not working. If possible would like to find direct replacement breakers and avoid replacing entire system. The breakers must be rated for both AC and DC
Scott
"The breaker in the photo says E-T-A right on it (upside down on the white area), so I would go there for replacement. The orange label stuck to the back of the panel clearly says 16A, which would make perfect sense for a 12V system. "
Is ETA still in business? I have never heard of them.
Cheers
My issue is that I have one with broken toggle switch handle and few other ones that are not working. If possible would like to find direct replacement breakers and avoid replacing entire system. The breakers must be rated for both AC and DC
Scott
"The breaker in the photo says E-T-A right on it (upside down on the white area), so I would go there for replacement. The orange label stuck to the back of the panel clearly says 16A, which would make perfect sense for a 12V system. "
Is ETA still in business? I have never heard of them.
Cheers
Duck-Duck-Go.com is your friend.
E-T-A Engineering Technology | E-T-A
Circuit Breakers & power management systems designed by E-T-A for the protection of electrical equipment
mermike and Dave
The picture shows breakers as they are at the back of my DC control panel, I use them more like switches to turn systems on or off. Does this makes any difference in what you are thinking
Cheers
The picture shows breakers as they are at the back of my DC control panel, I use them more like switches to turn systems on or off. Does this makes any difference in what you are thinking
Cheers
No. The breakers on most boats serve 2 purposes, to protect the wiring from over current which will heat the wires leading to a potential fire hazard and to serve as an on/off switch. Of course some breakers, or more correctly OCPD, will be more and may need to be replaced sooner due to wear. When they wear out, it is time to replace them. The most important thing is to have breakers appropriately sized for the wire they protect. If a wire can only handle 10 amps and the breaker is a 15 amp breaker, this is not good in an overload condition the wire can heat up and potentially cause a fire.
If you can't locate a retailer for the breaker you need, contact Beneteau or a Beneteau dealer. Hopefully one of them will be able to point you in the right direction.
Well there certainly were a LOT of questions raised by this post! I suppose the easiest and cheapest way to address this problem is to simply find a direct replacement. But what about all the other issues?
1. @mermike is pointing out that ALL your breakers appear to be AC breakers and they are installed in a DC system. I don't know about you, but that would bother me an awful lot until I could cross-check this thoroughly and be firmly convinced if this is an acceptable installation or not. (not questioning mermike's knowledge, but very baffled how the breakers could be installed like this if it is not acceptable to use these AC breakers in your DC panel).
2. I wouldn't be happy with the soldered connections, I think. How old are these breakers and connections? Are they going to fail one-by-one until you begin to wonder why you are salvaging the panel? Are these breakers replaceable? A quick look at the products in E-T-A's website and I don't see a direct replacement (perhaps there is old inventory?).
How old is this panel? If it's more than 20 years old, I'd be inclined to replace it in full. But that's just me. I'm just itching to finally pull the trigger and replace mine, which is just over that 20-year mark. I'd like nothing better than to organize the switches and loads to my own liking. Only Sue's eye on the budget keeps me in check at this point.
1. @mermike is pointing out that ALL your breakers appear to be AC breakers and they are installed in a DC system. I don't know about you, but that would bother me an awful lot until I could cross-check this thoroughly and be firmly convinced if this is an acceptable installation or not. (not questioning mermike's knowledge, but very baffled how the breakers could be installed like this if it is not acceptable to use these AC breakers in your DC panel).
2. I wouldn't be happy with the soldered connections, I think. How old are these breakers and connections? Are they going to fail one-by-one until you begin to wonder why you are salvaging the panel? Are these breakers replaceable? A quick look at the products in E-T-A's website and I don't see a direct replacement (perhaps there is old inventory?).
How old is this panel? If it's more than 20 years old, I'd be inclined to replace it in full. But that's just me. I'm just itching to finally pull the trigger and replace mine, which is just over that 20-year mark. I'd like nothing better than to organize the switches and loads to my own liking. Only Sue's eye on the budget keeps me in check at this point.
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A picture of the front of your panel would help. These might work. Never mind, you need the switching function. https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/14/26/Circuit_Breakers/Push_Button_Reset-Only?Terminal_Type=1/4_Male_Quick_Connect
Their C-series toggle breakers might also work, but you'll have to check the size.
Their C-series toggle breakers might also work, but you'll have to check the size.