135 or 150 Furler for O'Day 25

[sdommer]

Acquired a 1977 O'Day 25 last summer.

As a first upgrade, I'm looking to install a CDI Furler and either a 135 or 150 headsail and am looking for anyone with first-hand experience or opinions. Not a fan of my hank on jib.

Sail the boat within the harbors of Western Long Island Sound.

Will most likely purchase from thesailwarehouse.com after reading many positive threads and speaking with them. Open to any other positive experiences.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Pat]

When we ordered our O'Day 272 LE after some discussion with our broker here in Wichita we decided to order a 135 genoa for this boat....the reason was that it often windy and gusty in Kansas and we thought it made sense.....to this day, I think we made the right decision. We had the sail refurbished by Doyle sails in Marblehead, mainly to replace the sun cover which was deteroriating some....we had the sun cover cut enough larger that the sail is now basically a 140 percent....still is a really dream sail and is easily furled for windy gusty weather....we still have the original CDI furler
which somehow continues to operate just fine. Good Luck and enjoy your boat.

 

[Stu Jackson]

cdi has a good rep. Get the ball bearings in the drum. Might be an option.

You may be interested in this:

A very illuminating and interesting discussion on co.com for those of you who might be in the market for a new jib.

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=155362

Please read all three pages. Enjoy.

 

[Ward H]

My 1980 O'day 25 came with a 100 and 135. Tried the 100 for first half dozen sails, then put on the 135. Found we rarely sailed with the full 135 so we went back to the 100.
I would think it really depends on the winds where you sail. We rarely see winds light enough to make me think about putting the 135 back on, let alone a 150.
Also, I believe you can only furl a jib down so far and have it still be efficient. If you start with a 150, what will you use on those 15-20 days?

 

[sdommer]

Thanks all for your responses. I'm leaning towards the 135 based on some additional reading, and some specific mentions of the 150 overpowering the centerboard model of the O'Day 25, which I have.

The 1977 25' has the genoa tracks all the way aft on the boat, and have see a number of posts suggesting adding a new track forward of this track, but behind the fixed jib block that I currently use for my 100.

http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=123552

http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=130836

http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=59850

I don't want the purchase of a new sail/furler to then have this turn into a project of having to install new jib block/tracks. Maybe this block location is not that critical, or the addition of a new track is not that big a project?

 

[Sunbird22358]

Block location is based on proper sheeting angle, usually the sheet should match the angle of the LP (Luff Perpendicular) for proper sail shape. This will keep even tension on both the leech and foot of the sail. LP is the line drawn through the clew of the sail intersecting the luff at a 90 degree angle. Genoa "percentage" is based on the ratio of the length of hte LP to the "J" measurement (distance from base of mast to base of forestay). The J for the 25 is 10'6" so a 135 Genoa will have a LP of 135% of 10'6" or 14'2". I'd make sure that my Sailmaker cut the sail to have the sheet land about the middle of the current genoa track, or maybe 2/3 of the length from the aft end. This can be acomplished by adjusting the height above the deck of the clew of the Genoa.
This way there will be no need to add another track. See diagram below for what I hope will explain all the technical "mumbo jumbo" that I just wrote. <GRIN!> The blue line represents approximately how far aft a 135% genoa would extend (well, maybe, I'm not exactly sure that is 135%, might be larger, but you get the point.) Anyway, if you draw a line perpendicular to the forestay that hits the deck at the point on the track where you want the fairlead to be (in order to use the track that is already there), that will need to line up with the LP of the 135% Genoa. Well, I know what I'm trying to say...... but even I'm getting confused about just how to explain it!
If you can have your sailmaker visit the boat with you, he/she can get this right. However, it seems to me that a 135% genoa sheet should hit the genoa track with no problem, locating the fairlead on a track further forward (between current track and the working jib lead block) would be too far forward.

 

[sdommer]

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation, and the EXTREMELY helpful images. Those make it much easier to visualize how the sail cut affects the sheet angle.

I had planned on purchasing an off-the-shelf sail on-line, as I don't want to spend the $$'s for a custom cut sail. Based on the image, it looks like I would be covered with my current setup regardless of sail cut with the sail fully unfurled. Could run in to a less optimal situation if the sail is cut lower as depicted by the brown line.

 

[Technodad]

I ended up getting a 145% genoa because I couldn't decide on a 135 or 150. My sail provider suggested this.
Now after two seasons I think the 135 would be better suited for my 23.

 

[jibes138]

The 150 is for very light winds, if your "average winds" are stronger than you will find yourself trying to sail with the 150 partially rolled up. A partially rolled up 150 gives you terrible results and you will on average have the wrong sail and be unhappy. Rolling up a headsail puts the center of effort too high and the disruption in airflow from the rolled up shape moves the center of effort aft so you get too much heel and an unbalanced helm. My experience is a 130 is a lot more versatile but you sacrifice a little light air performance. In really light air you might get so bored you'll kick on the motor anyway. My advice is go with a 130.

 

[Ward H]

After reading Sunbird's explanation a few times it finally sunk in about jib size. I always thought it was J * 135% along the J line. Didn't understand the LP length. Now I do.
Sunbird,
What do the 110, 270 and 160 marks represent in your second attachment?

What Jibes said is why I switched from my 135 (I think that is the size, now I know how to measure it) to my 100 (again, I think but can now measure it).

Helpful thread.

 

[Sunbird22358]

The 110, 270, ansd 160 marks represent the approximate centers of effort of the working sails. 110sqft for the Main, 160 sqft for the working jib, and 270 sqft for the main and jib combined. The locations of the marks, as I say, show the approximate center of the area of the sail (and the 270 show approximate center of the total sail plan). The jib shown is the "standard" working jib, which I think was about a 100% jib, based on how O'DAY lists the sail area in their brochure.

For clarity, I have attached a copy of that drawing without my added lines.

 

[Ward H]

Thanks for clarifying that. I have seen that drawing before but never understood those numbers.

 

[Peter18046]

We own an OD 25 1976 (centerboard model) and sail in your area. After many years of hanking on and off our two jibs, after much research we installed a Schaefer Snapfurl, a DIY and no-fuss, no-muss unit at a reasonable price from Defender. There is no need to modify the headstay or install a new turnbuckle or stay termination. That was important to us, so we could always return the boat to its original configuration and use the old sails if ever necessary. The Snapfurl unit fits over the headstay, and the only cut you need to make is to the plastic snap-together extrusion based on your actual sail's luff length. I added a few extra inches just to be sure and to alow for any replacement sails in the future. Read and re-read all instructions, proceed slowly, measure twice and cut once! Roller bearings are at the drum and the head swivel at the top of the sail, so there is ease in furling and/or adjusting sail area. Combined this with a 135 genoa with Sunbrella cover from SailsEast (a beautifully built sail at a great price!) and found it's just the perfect combo for our boat Long Island Sound. A 150% genoa would have been a bit too powerful for the average winds we have here, in addition to having to handle a larger amount of canvas on deck when rigging and de-rigging it. Good luck!

 

[RichBone]

The Snapfurl sure looks interesting. I'm still hanking. What did you do for the sail track?

 

[Barnacle Bill]

CDI furlers work well and so do the Snap Furl by Schaefer. They differ in that the CDI has it's own halyard system and with the Snap Furl you can use your existing halyards just like you would do if you had a Furlex or a Harken system on a bigger boat (but they make them for your size boat too). If you trailer a lot, where the mast goes up and down a lot, then a flexible furler is probably best. But if you leave your boat in the water all year/summer, then why not consider a real nice system like a Furlex? Then you can furl your larger headsail when the wind pipes up (can't do that with a CDI). But, buy what you want. If you race, then the largest headsail you can get without additional handicap is a 155% genoa, so you might consider that, if you race as you will need that on those light winded days. I thought there were virtually no winds on Long Island Sound in later summer? And, for your other question or issue.......the simplest way to figure out where a jib lead should go is to sail the boat as close to the wind as possible without luffing and then turn it into the wind enough to luff the leading edge. The entire leading edge should break at the same time. If the top breaks before the bottom half, then the lead is too far aft. If the bottom half breaks before the top half, then the lead is too far forward. If the lead is where it should be, the entire luff of the sail should break at the same time. There are variations to that in heavy air where you might want to bring the lead aft some so the top breaks first, which helps depower the rig in the heavier air. But, basically my explanation is pretty simple and you will find that your foot won't be too tight or loose, etc.