12V Bilge pump outlet pipe?

tim_klynn · Jan 30, 2012

Hi John,
I fitted a small "horizontal" whale pump in the space below the fuel tank. It has its own switch built in and uses a 3/4" line w/ a check valve.

I ran the line so it loops up and then drops down to a bronze "T" fitting that I put on the cockpit drain hose in the lazarette.

The 3/4 inch line runs out the aft end of the bilge (along the fuel filler hose) into the lazarette.

I usually don't get any water in the bilge, so I leave the bilge pump switch off and just turn it on from time to time to see
if any water is down there.
If the pump kicks on, I'll fix the leak.

Since I put it in, I've learned that offshore race requirements don't allow this set up.
I've seen other set ups that pump into the cockpit, so you cab see when the pump is running.
I've also thought about adding a manual pump, and maybe adding a 3 way valve to switch one outlet between pumps. -Tim
________________________________
From: John.Kinsella John.Kinsella@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 3:49 PM
Subject: [AlbinVega] 12V Bilge pump outlet pipe?

Hi. I already have a good hand operated Whale bilge pump for shifting large amounts of water reasonably fast.

I'm thinking of installing a 12V pump to keep the bilge dry when the boat is unattended. No worries about draining the batteries as boat is on shore power with batteries on smart charger when on home berth.

The question: where to lead the drain pipe?
I really don't want to make a new hole in the hull.

Maybe lead the drain pipe up to the sink when boat unattended? And just drop pipe back into bilge when boat in use?
A bit of a bodge.....

Is there a better way?
Y-junction with sink drain pipe??

Any suggestions welcome.

John V1447 Breakaway

John Kinsella
Mathematics and Statistics Dept
University of Limerick

Phone 0035361202148
Web jkcray.maths.ul.ie

bruceblumenstein · Jan 30, 2012

Mine vents from the thru hole in the engine catch pan, up through the void above the engine and 90 degree into the cockpit. Also I have an alarm horn if water ever gets to the level of the top of the fuel tank in the keel. Both of these are powered directly from the batteries. -Bruce

tiempo2010 · Jan 30, 2012

The best solution is a through hull on the stern about halfway between the
waterline and the deck. Run the hose in a loop up to the deck before going
down to the exit.

Or alternatively in the cockpit well above a drain.

SVFlyAway · Jan 30, 2012

Personally I've always put my bilge thru-hull at the waterline and I loop
the hose (however the higher the pump has to pump the water the lower the
flow). The reason I put it at the waterline is that I don't want a dirty
water stain down the side of the boat. I often have put it in the side of
the hull so as not to have a long hose run. Finally, I always use metal
fittings near or below the waterline. I guess the Marlon connectors are
rated by the CG and even some of the best builder use them below the
waterline, but never plastic or PVC.

bruceblumenstein · Jan 30, 2012

Hi John, I was happy to have mine discharge into the cockpit next to the key start panel. Sure it was very noticeable the time I left the drain cock at the engine block open. After sailing I decided to motor the four miles up the bay. Everything looked normal and the exhaust was discharging its cooling water, diesel operating normal temperature.

The electric bilge pump was soon discharging water onto my shoes. When I opened up the floor panel the water level was right at the pump just below the battery doing its job. I soon found the petcock was open and sending a nice little flow of water into the keel. Glad the pump was there, otherwise I would have had a boatload of water above the battery and worse. I don't leave the petcock open after draining out the block. Hard knock lesson and I got off easy! -Bruce

pjacobs55 · Jan 30, 2012

Hi John,
I'll describe what's installed in Sin Tacha. I don't know if it's legal, kosher, or what have you, but it works very well for me, and the Ballad is going to get the same setup.

I have an electric pump in the bilge connected to a "Water Witch 101" switch that will only react to water, not to fuel.

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The outlet hose runs up to a plastic thru-hull in the forward cockpit wall, left side, about 6" above the cockpit floor. While sailing, if the pump were to come on, water would splash into the cockpit, alerting one of a water problem in the bilge. The two cockpit drains exiting the transom can handle anything a small electric bilge pump can throw at them.

There is also a Whale Gusher manual pump in the usual place. It used to "T" into the port cockpit drain hose, but this was rejected by a recent survey, so I changed it over so that it has it's own thru-hull high up in the transom.

I'm not in favour of running the electric pump drain hose to the sink line, as this would mean leaving the sink thru-hull seacock open when the boat is unattended. I like to leave all seacocks closed when I'm not on the boat ... I sleep better that way!

Hope this helps,
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

pjacobs55 · Jan 30, 2012

(I found this idea on the Chesapeake Tartan 30 Association website years ago and copied it away for future reference.)

http://tartan30.org/Articles/supblpmp.pdf

One way to handle a bad leak is to put a three-way diverter valve at the water strainer INLET (Groco TWV-750). This lets me select cooling water source 1: the engine water thru-hull or 2: the bilge, and allows the engine water pump to be used as a bilge pump in an emergency, with the strainer in line to keep the cr*p out of the pump. The valve handle is tied off with a zip-tie to prevent accidental switching.

Everything on a boat should have at least two uses. The line from the valve to the bilge, with a female hose fitting on the end, can also be used to pump fresh water or antifreeze into the raw water system.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

bruceblumenstein · Jan 31, 2012

My drain pipe has a slip sleeve at the stern fitting so I can divert the flex pipe into a five gallon bucket. Then I take that dirty bilge water to a transfer station. There is a huge fine here for knowingly pumping out oil slicks into Puget Sound. And there will be a big oil slick no matter how 'clean' your bilge is. Also an emergency electric bilge pump discharging out of site is out of mind if you have'nt a clue it is activated. I also have an alarm...but I did not hear it when the diesel was running. My electric bilge pump is always hooked up, there is no off switch or fuse on it or the alarm. And it was there when I was not. -Bruce

tiempo2010 · Jan 31, 2012

Bruce

There should be a fuse on the bilge pump - if the float sticks and there
isn't a fuse a fire can easily be started and boats have been lost for this
reason. If there is not a fuse insurance may have a reason not to pay
either.

SVFlyAway · Jan 31, 2012

I've never had oil in the bilge water of my Vega. I actually use a shop vac
to dry it out by the way.

vegatern · Jan 31, 2012

I like the idea of using the engine to pump out the bilge but my little Volvo doesn't move enough water to make much difference I think. A neighbor in a larger boat has a power take off, rigged with a clutch to the flywheel I believe, and can move a large amount of water with a centrifugal pump. Probably not practical in the Vega, and I don't know if I could figure out how to rig it anyway, but I like that idea too. Its also handy if he wants to split wood or bail hay.
Craig Tern#1519

pjacobs55 · Feb 1, 2012

Some folks think it is a bad idea to rig the cooling water pump so it can
draw from the bilge. They think you have an emergency with flooding, you run
the engine to cope with the water and maybe to maneuver to safety or
whatever, you get a clog in the bilge strum box and now your engine is
overheated and maybe out of commission, and you're in deep kimchi. I agree
with that point of view - the engine is so important, leave the cooling
water system alone.

Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.

120 Exchange Street

P.O. Box 7206

Portland ME 04112

207/772-2191

Fax 207/774-3940

This email is from a law firm and may contain material that is confidential
or privileged. If you suspect you were not the intended recipient, please
delete the email and give us a call.

pjacobs55 · Feb 1, 2012

Nice to hear someone else who keeps things clean. On the Series I, with no fuel tank in the bilge, and a shallower bilge cavty, it's easy to keep a 'sweet' bilge. In fact, when I sponge mine out I taste the water to see if it's rain or salt. (Needless to say I don't swallow it!) Certainly no oil down there, or any other gunge.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

bruceblumenstein · Feb 1, 2012

I've had a fuel injection pump drip a tad of diesel, the spilt kerosene, lube oil and fuel filter spills, and a mess changing the oil...and the huge oil disaster when I was hooking up an oil gauge. And everything that touches the interior eventually finds the bilge. My fuel tank hides the mess so everything is spotless. I use a dowel dip stick to check the occasional water buildup in the bilge and it always has the film of oil on it. Being the clean characters you are, I would hope that extends to the environment management as a whole. I have not tasted the bay water lately but I haven't added any oil slicks out there. Time for a coffee...before I get the vacuum going on the plush carpet under the engine. -Bruce

tim_klynn · Feb 1, 2012

I think the only time I might be tempted to taste the bilge water is if I spilled my last beer down there and was far offshore....-Tim
________________________________
From: Peter peter@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 10:02 AM
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: 12V Bilge pump outlet pipe?

Nice to hear someone else who keeps things clean. On the Series I, with no fuel tank in the bilge, and a shallower bilge cavty, it's easy to keep a 'sweet' bilge. In fact, when I sponge mine out I taste the water to see if it's rain or salt. (Needless to say I don't swallow it!) Certainly no oil down there, or any other gunge.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

pjacobs55 · Feb 2, 2012

Having the fuel tank located in the bilge certainly makes housekeeping a little more difficult. Maybe by flooding it with fresh water the oil could be brought up to the surface and skimmed off? I don't know how far the top of the tank sits below the floor level, but you'd have to be careful not to drown the batteries, or any electrical gear.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

dougpol1 · Feb 2, 2012

I use the oil absorbent pads that marine stores sell. Just drop one or
two in the bilge and it will absorb all the oil. I keep one in the pan
under the engine all the time. A couple times a year I replace it. I
never have any oil in the bilge any more. I think I paid about$1.50 per
pad.
Doug