I am currently cruising in my Hunter 38 and have a 40hp Yanmar with a 60amp alternator. I am finding I need to run the engine for about 3 hrs per day to keep my 2 x 200amp gel batteries above 12.4v. Has enyone fitted a 120 amp alternator to this engine and is there any disadvantage other than cost? Could I expect to cut engine time to maybe 2 hrs per day? Thanks in advance
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Hi Amp, dual belt
You'll need to set up the hi output alternater with a twin belt pulley off the crankshaft output. The load of the new alterator is too much for the single belt setup that you have currently.
You'll need to set up the hi output alternater with a twin belt pulley off the crankshaft output. The load of the new alterator is too much for the single belt setup that you have currently.
Amen
It cuts down on your engine power and places additional wear and tear on your engine. Have you considered alternative energy, solar panels or wind driven generators. A Honda 2000eu gas powered generator can keep your batteries charged and run other AC appliances.
It cuts down on your engine power and places additional wear and tear on your engine. Have you considered alternative energy, solar panels or wind driven generators. A Honda 2000eu gas powered generator can keep your batteries charged and run other AC appliances.
Wear on the engine???
120 amps times 14 volts is 1680 watts. That is around 2.25 horse power at max output. Not much of a load for a 40 HP motor. The issue of dual belts is harder to fix. You WILL need a new crankshaft pulley. A better (and cheaper) solution is to get an external regulator. The stock regulator is designed to "maintain" a car battery with a trickle charge. You want to charge up a (in automotive terms) deeply discharged battery. An external regulator will greatly increase the effective output of you 60 amp alternator.
120 amps times 14 volts is 1680 watts. That is around 2.25 horse power at max output. Not much of a load for a 40 HP motor. The issue of dual belts is harder to fix. You WILL need a new crankshaft pulley. A better (and cheaper) solution is to get an external regulator. The stock regulator is designed to "maintain" a car battery with a trickle charge. You want to charge up a (in automotive terms) deeply discharged battery. An external regulator will greatly increase the effective output of you 60 amp alternator.
I would upgrade with a Balmar alt/regulator...but
I still think you will need a Honda2000eu. If you are going from anchorage to anchorage Balmar alt/regulator is very helpfull. If you are sitting there for 3 days you are better off getting a Honda2000eu. abe
I still think you will need a Honda2000eu. If you are going from anchorage to anchorage Balmar alt/regulator is very helpfull. If you are sitting there for 3 days you are better off getting a Honda2000eu. abe
other alternatives
What about solar panels and/or a wind gen? The newest versions of these are pretty darn good. For a comprehensive look at your electrical system, I'd recommend Calder's 'Boatowners Mechanical & Electrical Manual'. It's in a new printing with updated info. He really goes into all the details about a complete electrical system for cruising.
What about solar panels and/or a wind gen? The newest versions of these are pretty darn good. For a comprehensive look at your electrical system, I'd recommend Calder's 'Boatowners Mechanical & Electrical Manual'. It's in a new printing with updated info. He really goes into all the details about a complete electrical system for cruising.
Smart External Regulator First....
...then IF you find you need to, you can move to a 100 amp Balmar or similar, or to a dual alternator system. I have the 90/100 amp Balmar and an external three-stage regulator. An hour will charge the 500 amp batteries. I go through about 80-120 amps a day depending. I do use a Honda 2000 generator when I am at an anchorage for more than a couple of days. I also have three flexible solar panels which will add about 35-60 amps a day when I deploy them on top of the bimini. Adding a second pulley to the engine can be problimatical according to my mechanic but he was not very specific. Rick D.
...then IF you find you need to, you can move to a 100 amp Balmar or similar, or to a dual alternator system. I have the 90/100 amp Balmar and an external three-stage regulator. An hour will charge the 500 amp batteries. I go through about 80-120 amps a day depending. I do use a Honda 2000 generator when I am at an anchorage for more than a couple of days. I also have three flexible solar panels which will add about 35-60 amps a day when I deploy them on top of the bimini. Adding a second pulley to the engine can be problimatical according to my mechanic but he was not very specific. Rick D.
Before you act on the previous suggestions
1. If you're only running your house bank down to 12.4 volts then you're not using the capacity available to you. Most quality batteries will tolerate a 50% discharge (roughly 11.9 - 12.0 vdc) without harm. This deeper discharge will also yield a longer and higher bulk charge from a 3 stage regulator. This effectively shortens charge times compared to a short bulk cycle and a higher percentage of time spent on in acceptance mode. The cool thing here is that you may find you can improve your situation by managing your current set up differently and not spend a dime. 2. You never said what your current regulator type was. A programmable 3 stage regulator is a good idea but examine what you currently have before ripping it out and spending more money. 3. Your post isn't clear about whether you're running 2 seperate house banks of 200 amp/hrs each. If so, I'd strongly encourage combining those banks into a single house bank of 400 amp/hrs. This will increase time spent in bulk/acceptance mode compared to charging two smaller banks seperately with a given charging source. 4. Increasing the capacity of your charging source (alternator) will help to a degree but that's only part of the equation. Batteries will only "take" certain rates of charge as they "fill." A small bank won't take much and a bigger bank will take more of whatever a charging source has to offer. Strapping on bigger alternator will help some in the initial bulk cycle, but once a battery gets to where it'll only take, say, 60 amps of charge, it doesn't matter whether your alternator is capable of putting out 60 amps or 600. The moral of that story is size your alternator to the size of your battery bank for greatest efficiency. 5. I know the little Hondas are a wonderful thing but personally, I just can't trade the sound of one engine running for another. My vote goes to silent power i.e. solar panels. This is a PERSONAL preference so put down those flame throwers
Hope this helps.
1. If you're only running your house bank down to 12.4 volts then you're not using the capacity available to you. Most quality batteries will tolerate a 50% discharge (roughly 11.9 - 12.0 vdc) without harm. This deeper discharge will also yield a longer and higher bulk charge from a 3 stage regulator. This effectively shortens charge times compared to a short bulk cycle and a higher percentage of time spent on in acceptance mode. The cool thing here is that you may find you can improve your situation by managing your current set up differently and not spend a dime. 2. You never said what your current regulator type was. A programmable 3 stage regulator is a good idea but examine what you currently have before ripping it out and spending more money. 3. Your post isn't clear about whether you're running 2 seperate house banks of 200 amp/hrs each. If so, I'd strongly encourage combining those banks into a single house bank of 400 amp/hrs. This will increase time spent in bulk/acceptance mode compared to charging two smaller banks seperately with a given charging source. 4. Increasing the capacity of your charging source (alternator) will help to a degree but that's only part of the equation. Batteries will only "take" certain rates of charge as they "fill." A small bank won't take much and a bigger bank will take more of whatever a charging source has to offer. Strapping on bigger alternator will help some in the initial bulk cycle, but once a battery gets to where it'll only take, say, 60 amps of charge, it doesn't matter whether your alternator is capable of putting out 60 amps or 600. The moral of that story is size your alternator to the size of your battery bank for greatest efficiency. 5. I know the little Hondas are a wonderful thing but personally, I just can't trade the sound of one engine running for another. My vote goes to silent power i.e. solar panels. This is a PERSONAL preference so put down those flame throwers
Hope this helps.
Wow, there sure are a lot of opinions about
power and how to get it. Battery voltage as a measure of capacity is a moving target. I think of 12.3 volts as the 50% discharge level. Others like Rick use other numbers. Lets all go to Ample Powers' web site and save a lot of typing. www.amplepower.com (they call 12.2 volts, or so, 50% discharged.)
power and how to get it. Battery voltage as a measure of capacity is a moving target. I think of 12.3 volts as the 50% discharge level. Others like Rick use other numbers. Lets all go to Ample Powers' web site and save a lot of typing. www.amplepower.com (they call 12.2 volts, or so, 50% discharged.)
Glen re EU1000i
Glen - the 1000i is a really nice unit rated at 900W continuous; however, to get the maximum out of it depends on how the system is set up. To get maximum output a 120V true sine battery charger should be used, not a modified sine wave like so many chargers. Factor in inefficiencies and the battery charger size can be determined. Since people in the northwest don't need to run an air conditioner the 1000i can make a lot of sense. We used the 1000i for a couple years now and I really liked it's portability. Having said that, for the past month we've been running with just a pair of solar panels (left Honda at home) and yesterday was the first time we ever had shore power. If you don't have a large electrical demand then solar and wind options should be considered and looking at the life cycle costs these options just might be more competitive. Hope this helps.
Glen - the 1000i is a really nice unit rated at 900W continuous; however, to get the maximum out of it depends on how the system is set up. To get maximum output a 120V true sine battery charger should be used, not a modified sine wave like so many chargers. Factor in inefficiencies and the battery charger size can be determined. Since people in the northwest don't need to run an air conditioner the 1000i can make a lot of sense. We used the 1000i for a couple years now and I really liked it's portability. Having said that, for the past month we've been running with just a pair of solar panels (left Honda at home) and yesterday was the first time we ever had shore power. If you don't have a large electrical demand then solar and wind options should be considered and looking at the life cycle costs these options just might be more competitive. Hope this helps.
John,
You're confusing inverters with battery chargers. The output of a battery charger is DC. No waves present. The INPUT from AC has a wave, of course. And how's your trip? Where are you?
You're confusing inverters with battery chargers. The output of a battery charger is DC. No waves present. The INPUT from AC has a wave, of course. And how's your trip? Where are you?
how to measure
"Lets all go to Ample Powers' web site and save a lot of typing. www.amplepower.com (they call 12.2 volts, or so, 50% discharged.)" Remember though, most are measuring the available volts from the breaker panel guage, which of course isn't the most accurate measuring stick. I would say that each boat owner, if he uses that as a measuring stick, should do his own calculation. Charge the battery as much as possible, then run things without the charger on to burn 1/2 of your battery amps, then check your "measuring stick". After that, you will know exactly what your volts meter is supposed to read. Why? Because my 11.9 might equal your 12.2
"Lets all go to Ample Powers' web site and save a lot of typing. www.amplepower.com (they call 12.2 volts, or so, 50% discharged.)" Remember though, most are measuring the available volts from the breaker panel guage, which of course isn't the most accurate measuring stick. I would say that each boat owner, if he uses that as a measuring stick, should do his own calculation. Charge the battery as much as possible, then run things without the charger on to burn 1/2 of your battery amps, then check your "measuring stick". After that, you will know exactly what your volts meter is supposed to read. Why? Because my 11.9 might equal your 12.2
Yep, you can't tell just from one meter. It's all
explained on Ample Powers web site. I left out their explanation to save some typing.
explained on Ample Powers web site. I left out their explanation to save some typing.
Hey Fred and Franklin. You're both right, of course.
Using a voltage readout alone probably won't paint a very complete picture on charge state so your comments are quite true. My experience has been that 12.2 is a fairly conservative "floor" but there's nothing wrong with that and Ample Power certainly knows far more than I do about DC electricity. I might also suggest that consulting the battery manufacturer would be a good idea when deciding how far to push the house bank. I should have also suggested to John that he invest in a Link 10 or equivalent. The darn thing is worth it for entertainment value alone.
Using a voltage readout alone probably won't paint a very complete picture on charge state so your comments are quite true. My experience has been that 12.2 is a fairly conservative "floor" but there's nothing wrong with that and Ample Power certainly knows far more than I do about DC electricity. I might also suggest that consulting the battery manufacturer would be a good idea when deciding how far to push the house bank. I should have also suggested to John that he invest in a Link 10 or equivalent. The darn thing is worth it for entertainment value alone.
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