110 or 150 Jib on H34

[lr172]

I am a relatively new sailor with a Hunter 34 we acquired 2 years ago. This year I am committed to:

1) learning proper sail trim
2) dealing with light air (I sail on Lake Michigan)
3) avoiding weather helm over 10 kts.

My mainsail is the original and I hope to replace it this summer. I fear a good bit of my weather helm is from this being old and baggy, though some may have been from my inability to trim it properly.

I am building a reaching Asym to help me enjoy the light air days and should help me sail below 10 kts at a reasonable clip.

The real question for me is what to do with my head sail. I have a 150 Genoa in pretty good shape that I leave on the furler. I also have a 110 that I have never used. It is original, but I expect it is in pretty good shape. I typically sail with an inexperienced crew (essentially single-handing with some people around to pull on lines) and I have not enjoyed the thought of dropping the 150 on a windy day with my crew, which has prevented me from using the 110.

I figure that I have two options. Keep the 110 on the furler (I could add UV protection myself) and accept less performance on light wind days. My question is, at what wind speed does the 110 let me get near hull speed? What wind range can I expect this sail to be effective? I am figuring that the Reaching Asym will let me sail in the lesser winds, but won't be able to sail on close reach or above.

The other option is to leave the 150 up and roller reef it. This spring I plan to add a sleeve with some ropes at the luff (i.e. Ropeluff) to help maintain some shape. My research indicates that I can furl that down to a 130 and maintain a reasonable shape. Is that true? It was built after the PO had the furler installed, so I am guessing it was built to be reefed/furled with some shape.

I should mention that I also have a lighter weight dacron 170 that I could also fly free on light wind days (avoiding headsail change). I am also less concerned with changing headsails when the wind is low, so could possibly leave the 110 up and swap with 170 on light days.

I appreciate any guidance or wisdom that you could share.

Thanks,

Larry

 

[Steve Dion]

These boats don't need a a lot of headsail. If you need a lite air sail then I would suggest something other than a 150 on one of these models. Reefing the 150 does not do much for performance.

These boats can get a lot of weatherhelm with too much sail. If you sail single handed and/or with inexperienced sailors I would just sail with the 110. I have heard that lake Michigan can be deadly. You are better off being safe than sorry.

 

[neilmcc]

Much better to be sailing with all of the 110 rather than a partially furled 150.
The sail shape will be better and as Steve said the headsail provides little of the power on these boats but does shape the wind onto the main where the great majority of the sail power comes from.

 

[Richard Bryer]

For my money the 130 is the choice. I had one for a few years but it is at EOL and I am shopping for a new ( used) one. I sailed with a 150 for a couple of years but found I had too much sail up in anything over about 12 knts and it really didn't have much shape furled in.

 

[lr172]

Thanks for the guidance. Lake Michigan can get nasty, but I am still just a day sailor and don't stray too far from the harbor yet, therefore can limit the trouble that I can get into. We had a T-storm roll through one day and I was amazed how fast the sea could build. Prior to that, I believed that it took time to build waves. We were in short fetch, 6 footers within 30 minutes. In these cases, I drop sail and motor, however, I want to learn to handle these situations under sail.

The bigger problem for me is lack of wind. We seem to be on or off here. It's either 6 knots or 25 knots it seems. Most 10-15 knot days, of course, fall during the week when I'm working (Murphy at work here, I'm sure). Especially in late summer, we have a lot of sub-10 knot days.

Will the 110 have a significant performance problem at 8 knots compared to the 150. Are we talking a few knots of boat speed or something relatively insignificant?

Thanks,

Larry

 

[Steve Dion]

You may be suprised to see what a new main will do for this boat. Replace that main first and sail with that 110. You may be happy with that combo. Be sure to order a sail from someone that knows about the Hunter B&R rig.

 

[Bill1565]

If you are not "racing" the 110 will do for all occasions. I would encourage you to race. You will loose all your races the first year, but sail in weather you would otherwise avoid, and learn a huge amount.
By your own description, you are not experienced enuff to get the most out of your 150. If you can free fly your existing 170 that will get you down wind. Save the money from building an asym and buying a new main till you are more experienced and know what you want. Get a sailmaker to come look at your existing main and recut as needed.
I had great service from Stearns/ North sails in Chicago but have been gone since the mid 90's

 

[lr172]

Be sure to order a sail from someone that knows about the Hunter B&R rig.

Thanks. I will give it a try. What makes the B&R rig unique? I understand the swept spreaders, but not sure how it relates to the sail design. Are the issues with mast bend or chafe?

Thanks again for the help here.

Larry

 

[Steve Dion]

Mast bend, swept back spreaders. I would suggestbuying it from this website. You should get some feed back from some others about their sbo sails.

 

[Bill Roosa]

You should be able to get going once the winds get above 4-5 knots with normal weight sails. I know my 40.5 just pinwheels and goes with the flow below 4 knots unless I use the 0.5 oz asym. She will come alive at 5 and we can get to hull speed in 8 knots apparent on a broad reach. The biggest problem with standard weight sails in light airs is they are too heavy to take a shape. They are more like heavy curtains than sails if the wind speed is too low.
When buying a main be sure you know the mast and boom dimensions (sailrite has a form) or that the maker measures your boat. there is variation between boats even in the same model.
You did not mention it but you may find the main outhaul a useful line to pull on in light airs and to help reduce the weather helm in stronger winds.

 

[Dave Groshong]

The Doyle sails we offer are designed and cut specifically for your boat based on our easy measuring worksheets, here they are:

http://shop.sailboatowners.com/emp/measure/r.htm?s=main

http://shop.sailboatowners.com/emp/measure/r.htm?s=headfurl

If you have any concerns at all, we will put you in direct contact with the designer who has about 50 years of experience.

 

[Dan Johnson]

Larry...

Just replaced a blown out 110 with a new Doyle headsail. If you go that route, have the sailmaker add padding at the luff to allow the sail to be furled some and still have a trimable shape. Can't wait for sailing season to try my new sail out.

You should have no issues with headsail chafe, but you need to watch putting the main onto the spreaders going down wind. Better to sail 120* off and jibe--you can keep up with DDW boats.

I mostly single hand and have found that the 110 is fine for almost all occasions here on the Chesapeake Bay. You will find that this boat (H34) will sail very will in light air once you learn how to trim it for it. It's a tall rig and gathers in a lot of air in a light breeze.

I have PDFs on B&R rigs and tuning if you don't already have them.

 

[Mark48]

Larry,

I will mention that there is a North Sails loft in Milwaukee and in Chicago. I had the Milwaukee location do some repairs when my ripped out, ready in 3 days and well done. They have a good reputation as well as being locally involved. Where are you located I have an H 34 on a mooring in McKinley - that is if it ever thaws.

 

[lr172]

Thanks for all the help guys. I pulled the 110 this weekend. It looks to be in decent shape, but relatively well used. When it gets a little warmer this week, I'll rig it up to a couple of trees and see how much bag it has. Fortunately it has some UV protection on it so I can leave it on the furler. I'll play with it this spring and see how it performs.

I moor in Great Lakes. I hope to make a sailing trip to Milwaukee this Summer. I'll ping you when we make the trip.

My Asymm. Spin. kit should arrive this week and I hope this will address my light air issues and let me keep the 110 on the furler and possibly pull it down for the 150 on light days. Changing sails in light air is relatively easy, I think.

Now that I have learned more about sail trim this winter, I'll do some experimenting this Spring. Then I'll determine which sails should be replaced.