Sail condition

[madmax]

I bought a Catalina 320, and it came with, I think, six bags of sails. Two of them seemed to be in poor condition. I am posting pictures of Genoa. The color is very beige. I think it used to be white when it was new. The stitches looked okay. Should I keep it? or should I trash it? Or should I bleach it? (just kidding).

What are your thoughts. Thanks.

 

[kappykaplan]

I would take it to your local sail loft to inspect, then figure out if it's worth keeping.

 

[Drinky Crow]

Donate to your local sail loft? One here recycles them.

 

[dlochner]

They are probably pretty old and blown out. If the boat is in the water you can hoist them to see what the shape looks like. Or if you can hang them horizontally to see the shape.

Sails are toast when the fabric stretches and the sail becomes baggy. It is not possible to trim the bagginess out and the boat will sail poorly, heeling too easily and won't point as high going up wind. Stitching and small tears can be repaired and sails can be cleaned, but stretched and baggy, the sail has reached its retirement age.

 

[thinwater]

I bought a Catalina 320, and it came with, I think, six bags of sails. Two of them seemed to be in poor condition. I am posting pictures of Genoa. The color is very beige. I think it used to be white when it was new. The stitches looked okay. Should I keep it? or should I trash it? Or should I bleach it? (just kidding).

What are your thoughts. Thanks.

No reason not to try them. Yes, they have probably lost some shape, but I would certainly go sailing first. Learn more about the boat before making decisions. You're not crossing an ocean or racing.

Google washing sails. You can probably do them in the tub, one at a time. Soaking is more important than agitation. Not bleach, but Oxiclean is safe for sails. Don't try to get them very clean, just better; Oxiclean starts the process, and then they will lighten further after some time in the sun.

 

[Davidasailor26]

That doesn’t really look like Dacron to me. Could it be Kevlar? That would explain the color - Kevlar laminates usually have exactly that yellow shade, and the cloth texture looks pretty similar.

If it is Kevlar, it’s less likely to be blown out than an old Dacron sail. Dacron tends to age gradually, and eventually that gradual wear means it’s blown out to the point where it’s not efficient enough to be usable. Kevlar tends to fail more spectacularly - it still sails ok until it suddenly delaminates, weakens, and self-destructs. If it’s not showing signs of delamination then it’s probably still serviceable.

 

[dlochner]

That doesn’t really look like Dacron to me. Could it be Kevlar? That would explain the color - Kevlar laminates usually have exactly that yellow shade, and the cloth texture looks pretty similar.

If it is Kevlar, it’s less likely to be blown out than an old Dacron sail. Dacron tends to age gradually, and eventually that gradual wear means it’s blown out to the point where it’s not efficient enough to be usable. Kevlar tends to fail more spectacularly - it still sails ok until it suddenly delaminates, weakens, and self-destructs. If it’s not showing signs of delamination then it’s probably still serviceable.

The head and clew look like they are reinforced with Kevlar, the rest of the sail looks like a Dacron laminate. If it is a laminate sail, then as you stated they hold their shape much longer than Dacron cloth. When the mylar starts pealing off the sail, then it is time for the dumpster.

 

[Calif. Ted]

Color, PHRF number, tell tale window and wear panels at spreaders make it look like a laminate 150 someone got for racing.

 

[shemandr]

No one seems to ever throw sails away. That's why you see ads for sailboats that include many sails. Most of them are useless but they still hang around and take up space on the boat or at home.
I have no idea from those pictures if the sail has any value. When hoisted with the rig tuned the sail should have a maximum chord depth of 10% of chord length and be able to be flattened to around 3%. The fore-aft maximum chord depth should be at worst 50% of the chord length. If the maximum depth of draft is aft of 50% it is shot and would make better luggage than use for driving a sailboat. You can take pics of the set sail in moderate wind looking up from the foot to the head. Posting those pics would give forum members a chance to comment on the sail shape.
It is true that different sail materials fail differently. I had a tape drive kevlar sail that had excellent shape. But it was like a sieve.

 

[Calif. Ted]

No one seems to ever throw sails away. That's why you see ads for sailboats that include many sails. Most of them are useless but they still hang around and take up space on the boat or at home.

After giving a few to a gardener for use as tarps I still have the Mylar sail in this photo and a dacron 110 in storage.

 

[madmax]

Thanks for your response. To be honest with you, I don't think I'll use those beige-colored sails on my boat. Sometime within the next year or two, I plan to buy a new set of sails.

I know there are several types of sailcloth available, including Dacron, Kevlar, Mylar, and carbon. I understand that carbon sails are primarily used for racing. I don't think they last more than five years because they aren't very UV-resistant.

Which type of sailcloth - Dacron, Kevlar, or Mylar - has the longest lifespan? I think Dacron???

 

[jssailem]

How are you going to define lifespan?

Are you talking about General function or sail shape?

How you use your sails, and how you care for them, both have a material effect on their lifespan. I suggest you discuss the subject with a good local sail loft. They can help with selection of cloth for your sailing needs and recommend a care procedure that may include having the sails checked each year and repairing as needed.

 

[dlochner]

The first question to answer, and the one a good sail loft should ask, is what type of sailing will you be doing? The second question is What's your budget.

At one end of the spectrum there is the day sailor who goes out sailing for the afternoon, a Dacron cloth sail would meet those needs. At the other end of the spectrum are the highly competitive sailors with a large budget, they're buying sails with exotic cloths and paying dearly for them.

Laminate sails tend to hold their shape longer than cloth sails. This helps to off set the higher initial cost. Crosscut sails are usually less expensive to build than radial designs, however, radial designs have better sail shape and performance.

Then there is cloth weight which should be chosen based on where the boat will be sailed, lighter weight for more benign conditions, heavier weights for more extreme conditions. Lighter weight cloths are less durable than heavier weight cloths but much easier to handle.

There are Dacron laminate sails which are a good compromise for many. Combine a Dacron laminate cloth with a radial cut and you have a durable well performing sail for a modest premium over a Dacron cross cut sail.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Thanks for your response. To be honest with you, I don't think I'll use those beige-colored sails on my boat. Sometime within the next year or two, I plan to buy a new set of sails.

I know there are several types of sailcloth available, including Dacron, Kevlar, Mylar, and carbon. I understand that carbon sails are primarily used for racing. I don't think they last more than five years because they aren't very UV-resistant.

Which type of sailcloth - Dacron, Kevlar, or Mylar - has the longest lifespan? I think Dacron???

I’d give the old ones a try before discounting them. At least hoist them and see if they have a decent shape. The color doesn’t mean much - the don’t look to me like they’re stained. Sails stained from age would be blotchier and potentially moldier. If they are a laminate (and I strongly suspect they are) lack of mold or mildew is a very good sign. One of the main failure indicators of laminate is that moisture starts getting inside the layers and causing mildew spots that can’t be cleaned. I don’t see any signs of that in the pictures you showed. The yellow color will just look a little “racier”.

When it does come time for replacement, unless you’re a serious racer you’ll probably want some form of Dacron. As you said carbon is mostly a racer option because it’s so high performance. Its durability isn’t really limited by UV resistance, but more by being easily damaged by flexing and creasing. Carbon sails usually need to be rolled rather than folded to avoid any creases, and they can quickly be damaged by flogging in a slow tack or a squall. Your choice will probably be between plain cross cut woven Dacron, radial cut woven Dacron, or some form of Dacron (aka polyester) cruising laminate. Some of the higher end cruising laminates could have some aramid or dyneema threads stitched in for extra stretch resistance also. That represents broadly 4 categories of cloth in order of increasing cost and performance, all within the cruising category and without the durability shortcomings you get with more exotic material.

 

[sailme88]

Sail loft inspection is your first task. In Portland, ME there is a business called SAIL BAGS. They accept the gift of sails in exchange for free bags. Might be an option to search of a similar business in your area.

 

[garymalmgren]

RE; Sail loft inspection is your first task.

In my view, hoisting the sails on the boat would be the first task.
Those sails could easily be hand me downs that don't fit.
Then again they could be just discolored and still functional.

gary

 

[dLj]

Thanks for your response. To be honest with you, I don't think I'll use those beige-colored sails on my boat. Sometime within the next year or two, I plan to buy a new set of sails.

I know there are several types of sailcloth available, including Dacron, Kevlar, Mylar, and carbon. I understand that carbon sails are primarily used for racing. I don't think they last more than five years because they aren't very UV-resistant.

Which type of sailcloth - Dacron, Kevlar, or Mylar - has the longest lifespan? I think Dacron???

I seem to have missed where you explain what kind of sailing are you planning. Also what kind of budget are you looking at.

The boat is a Catalina 320. You certainly aren't going to buy high end racing sails for that boat - at least I wouldn't. It's not a high end racing boat. I'm a cruiser so I went for a material aimed at cruising called Dimension Hydra Net Radial 303 HNR.

Hydra Net® radial

Hydra Net® radial is the world’s first sustainable sailcloth, built with bio-based HMPE fibers from Dyneema®.

www.dimension-polyant.com

I'm expecting at least 10 years of excellent sail shape and durability out of these sails.

What you haven't asked about above is the sail design. that is probably as important or more so than the material you make the sails out of.

But... what are your expected sailing plans? Weekends? A few weekend trips? Hang out with friends/family? Planning to sail to Hawaii or beyond? It's all sailing... what's your style?

dj

 

[shemandr]

There is a bewildering array of sailmaking materials and add to that the various trade names and makes a choice difficult. I think your best chance of getting what you need at a fair price is find a sailmaker you can talk to. Although you’ll have to navigate some salesmanship the sailmaker will be current on modern materials and methods. We could not hope to match that knowledge and experience.
Even with limiting yourself to Dacron there are different trade names, cloth weights and choices to be made (Reef points, reinforcement patches etc.). I’m reminded of the old saw that only a fool tries to be their own lawyer (Sailmaker). That’s not to demean any forum members who do have that knowledge and experience it just that most of us don’t.

 

[LLoyd B]

Go with the sails that came on the boat and if they work well then buy better looking ones.

 

[jssailem]

I have worked with a loft manager from North Sails. They have made a Main, a 135 Genoa, and an asymmetrical for my boat. When the Genoa needed a better abrasion cloth for the radar they did it at no cost after the first season. They inspected the main at the same time and fixed an issue with the batten no cost. Sails fit and improved boat performance. I would recommend them in the Pacific NW.