Yanmar 1gm10 starting and under load issues

Nov 12, 2014
90
Jeanneau 42 Northport
Hey gang,

So I bought me a new boat A mirage 27 1985. So far it's been great sails like a dream very fast and comfortable considering the size. The only downfall is my darn motor. Since the day I bought her she just hasn't been running right. I had the marina check it out and they said somebody was tampering with the governor , they made a few adjustments but now it is just worse. They're telling me that the compression might be done and or I need a new injector .

Here are my symptoms, very hard to start Blows a lot of gray smoke. Once it is warmed it idols great and gets all the way up to 3200 RPM. But, once I put it into gear the motor wants to die and it pushes out black sock. If I play with the throttle right I can get it up to 2200RPMs at 4 1/2 knots

So what would you guys do ?
 
Jan 4, 2010
1,037
Farr 30 San Francisco
Might be overpropped do you know if it has the original prop? Black smoke = overfueling the governor is dumping as much fuel as it can to achieve desired RPM but it doesn't all burn so comes out tailpipe as black smoke.
 
Nov 22, 2011
1,192
Ericson 26-2 San Pedro, CA
Hey gang,

So I bought me a new boat A mirage 27 1985. So far it's been great sails like a dream very fast and comfortable considering the size. The only downfall is my darn motor. Since the day I bought her she just hasn't been running right. I had the marina check it out and they said somebody was tampering with the governor , they made a few adjustments but now it is just worse. They're telling me that the compression might be done and or I need a new injector .

Here are my symptoms, very hard to start Blows a lot of gray smoke. Once it is warmed it idols great and gets all the way up to 3200 RPM. But, once I put it into gear the motor wants to die and it pushes out black sock. If I play with the throttle right I can get it up to 2200RPMs at 4 1/2 knots

So what would you guys do ?
The 1GM10 should hit 3800 in neutral as its max rpm. The governor should let it get that high but no more. (You would want to run it only momentarily at such a high rpm, though. Nevertheless, you should be able to hit it.) If you are only hitting 3200 in neutral then something is very wrong. You should, though, confirm the actual rpm with a laser tach since the panel tach may be off. It's unlikely to be off by that much, though.

2200 rpm in gear is way too low as well. With a correctly sized prop you should be hitting close to 3600 in gear. I'd say if you are hitting 3400 in gear you are probably reasonably close enough, but 2200 isn't even in the ballpark. Given what you have described with the hard starting and all the smoking, even in neutral, there are issues with the engine that I'd get squared away before I started looking at things like the prop.
 
Nov 12, 2014
90
Jeanneau 42 Northport
So I'm pretty sure that the mechanic has been messing with my fuel injector limiter. He's looked at it three times now every time getting worse I'm wondering if I should reset this needle to its factory position myself. Would that be difficult? I'm very upset with my mechanic. Anyone know a good mechanic around Westbrook Connecticut?
 
Nov 22, 2011
1,192
Ericson 26-2 San Pedro, CA
So I'm pretty sure that the mechanic has been messing with my fuel injector limiter. He's looked at it three times now every time getting worse I'm wondering if I should reset this needle to its factory position myself. Would that be difficult? I'm very upset with my mechanic. Anyone know a good mechanic around Westbrook Connecticut?
Your mechanic should not be messing with the injector limiter. This is set at the factory and typically needs no adjustment. I think your engine has issues elsewhere, and messing with the injection control shaft has only complicated matters because now you have to wonder what other variables he has introduced to the troubleshooting soup.

Perhaps it would be helpful to know how the governor works generally on the 1GM10 and how the injection limiter factors into that.

The injection fuel pump has a "rack," which is like a slider/throttle that allows more or less flow of fuel depending on how far it is slid in the open direction. The position of this fuel rack depends on opposing spring pressures. On the one hand, there is a throttle spring that wants to open the fuel rack, while the governor spring opposes that and wants to close the rack.

The governor, for its part, provides the spring pressure that closes the rack as follows. When the engine starts and spins up, two weights fly outward through centrifugal force. These weights in turn are linked to a collar (called a "governor sleeve") that shoves forward against a yoke lever (called "governor lever 1"). This yoke lever has a spring on a shaft that keeps the yoke against the sliding collar. When this yoke presses forward as a result of collar pushing against it, the rotation of the shaft in turn moves the rack in the closed direction, limiting fuel.

When the engine is off and the throttle is in neutral, the injector pump rack is actually all the way opened and therefore prepared to output maximum fuel. However, in neutral there is also very little throttle spring pressure holding that rack opened. Of course, very little spring pressure is needed to do so because there is not much pressure countering it. When the engine starts and begins its rotation, the governor kicks in and opposes this small amount of throttle spring pressure that is holding the rack open with a relatively larger amount of spring pressure from the governor via the engine rotation. The net result is that the rack slides in the closed direction to reduce the amount of fuel and lessen the engine speed.

When the throttle lever (i.e., in your cockpit or whatever) is slid forward, this tightens the throttle spring which opens the rack, giving the injector more fuel. But as the injector gets more fuel, the engine runs faster, which throws the governor weights out more because of the increased centrifugal force, which adds to the spring pressure on the part of the governor that slides the fuel rack in the direction of less fuel. It is the balancing act or stasis between the spring pressure increasing the fuel (via the throttle spring) vs. the yoke pressure decreasing the amount of fuel (via the governor yoke) that maintains a particular rpm.

The injector control shaft adjustment puts a hard limit on the travel of the rack, such that it can only open so far and thus only deliver so much fuel. Screwing out the injector control shaft increases the range of travel on the rack, thus allowing more fuel on the top end, while screwing it in restricts the range of travel, limiting the maximum amount of fuel the injector pump can provide.

Also, if the throttle spring should be weak for whatever reason (e.g., stretched out), then even with the injector control shaft adjusted to allow maximum rack travel the engine may still not be able to allow the rack to open to the extent necessary to achieve maximum rpm under load. That's because despite the adjustment of the control shaft, the throttle spring itself is too weak to overcome the force of the governor. But again, this is not the first thing I would be looking at in order to troubleshoot the case you are describing.
 
Nov 12, 2014
90
Jeanneau 42 Northport
OK that makes sense. What you're saying is the injectetor limiter can be adjusted in and out however there is no factory position . Instead The position is more or less determined by the boat and the motor type. correct me if I'm wrong

So I know that both the non-load limiter and injector limiter Have been tampered with on the boat. What would you do to get these back to the right proposition.

The motor is getting fuel and is cranking over almost wants to start but once you get off the starter it stops. I changed the filters and checked the air intakes.

I have a new injector should I install see what happens or should I figure out the limiters myself?

Lastly how does one check the compression of a motor without a gauge? Is that possible?
 

NYSail

.
Jan 6, 2006
3,064
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
Have you pulled off your mixing elbow and checked to see if the exhaust side is clogged? Remember just because you have good water flow doesn't mean it's not shot. Start simple. Don't let them adjust anything....
 
Nov 22, 2011
1,192
Ericson 26-2 San Pedro, CA
OK that makes sense. What you're saying is the injectetor limiter can be adjusted in and out however there is no factory position . Instead The position is more or less determined by the boat and the motor type. correct me if I'm wrong

So I know that both the non-load limiter and injector limiter Have been tampered with on the boat. What would you do to get these back to the right proposition.

The motor is getting fuel and is cranking over almost wants to start but once you get off the starter it stops. I changed the filters and checked the air intakes.

I have a new injector should I install see what happens or should I figure out the limiters myself?

Lastly how does one check the compression of a motor without a gauge? Is that possible?
No, that's not right. The injector limiter *does* have a factory setting. What I am saying is that it is something that is set at the factory and is not normally changed after that. In fact, the factory typically wires the cap nut shut so that people with itchy fingers like your mechanic are less likely to mess with it--or if someone has messed with it in the past you can tell.

The Yanmar Workshop manual gives the procedure for putting back the injector limiter to the factory setting. I should be able to find it if you are interested. PM me if you'd like.

As I said before, I don't think the injector limiter was your problem and it's too bad that your mechanic saw fit to fiddle with it. And unless he screwed in (i.e., turned clockwise) the injection control shaft significantly, that is not accounting for your failure to hit top rpm under load and is not accounting for all of the smoke. (You had that problem *before* he messed with it.) You need to look elsewhere.

If you have a new injector then why not install it? Swapping injectors is not difficult. You should also check out that exhaust elbow, as NY Sail suggested. Make sure that there is no air in the fuel lines by following the proper bleeding procedure. Again, if you PM me I should be able to make that available to you also.

The 1GM10 is a very reliable and engine that should give you many years of service if you treat it right.