Winter storage Oil change. Before storage or in spring?

[dsaniti]

I’m asking you all this.
I usually change the oil and filter in the spring. But others in my marina do it before putting in winter storage. What are your thoughts?
I boat inland lake in Minnesota. Boating season is May 1 to Oct 1.
Winter temperatures are say -20F actual with windshield -70F worst case and usually only in February. The boat is stored on cradle outside with custom canvas cover.
Thanks
Dan

 

[Justin_NSA]

I was told to change it in the Fall so it doesn't sit with contaminated oil. Arguments either way make some sense to me but I'm sticking with this schedule.

 

[jssailem]

in Minnesota. -20F actual with windshield -70F

But It is a dry cold... on the "windshield"

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Not sure it really makes any difference but the conventional wisdom was to change it in the Fall prior to lay-up in the north.
Here, we typically do it in the winter/spring. Everything is relative.

 

[Jackdaw]

if you do it once a year, do it in the fall.

 

[Meriachee]

Not meaning to argue with Don, but it does make a huge difference. Any suspended solids have a few months to settle to the bottom of the pan, adding to the sludge layer, and the only difference that cold makes is that it takes longer for that process to happen. That layer may or may not fully liquify when the engine is running, and it makes it harder to get it all out when changing the oil.
Far better to change it just before putting it away.

 

[jssailem]

Even though our winters are mild by comparison I do all my major boat service in the fall. The boat sits for longer periods with fresh lubrication rather than the lubricants that have been thru the engine and accumulated contaminates that can do harm. I know that if I get a weather window in the winter I can take a couple of days off to cruise and the boat should be ready to go. When Spring comes the boat is set for an early cruise. Yes Fall is my time to put things to bed clean. Like showering at night before getting between the sheets.

 

[SEMPERAVANTI41]

Why would you want dirty, possibly acid filled oil sitting in your engine for 6 months?

 

[walmsleyc]

I do only oil in the fall, and oil and a filter in the spring.

Chris

 

[Justin_NSA]

I do only oil in the fall, and oil and a filter in the spring.

Chris

Chris,
Why bother putting oil in it at all in the Fall if you are just going to drain it in the Spring? It won't matter to the bearing surfaces, they are above the pan level anyway.

 

[Charles Erwin]

Any suspended solids have a few months to settle to the bottom of the pan, adding to the sludge layer . . .

Maybe we need to know what is going on before we decide whether an oil change/spring or fall - really matters.

What material makes up these suspended solids? Where did the debris come from? Why didn't the filter trap the debris. Seems to me that if these suspended solids are present in the crankcase and the filter did nothing to capture this trash then it is likely something is very wrong. I don't know what but if you have accumulations that settle out - changing the oil is probably not going to help much.

Motor manufacturers make long term storage recommendations. Most don't have you do anything special unless storage is going to be longer than 6 months time. Even then one needs to renew the filter and run the motor a short time to distribute fresh oil throughout the motor. Most call for added corrosion inhibitors and that means the oil and filter get changed again when you take the motor out of storage.

Charles

 

[Justin_NSA]

Several sites explain contamination. It doesn't mean there's a problem
http://blog.amsoil.com/how-does-motor-oil-become-contaminated/

 

[Meriachee]

Charles, what do you think causes the oil to go black? Moving metal parts that require lubrication, like piston rings, will allow fluids to pass them. It’s part of the core design, and the carbon, detergents, and other crap that gets by them is bad for the bearings in the long run. Hence change the oil. My commentary was part of protecting an investment, it has nothing to do with considerations towards what I think of using forklift motors in sailboats.

 

[Charles Erwin]

The main culprit is soot and aspirated particles, nearly all too small and too deformable to result in very much precipitation (or damage) especially after re-circulation filtering cycles and emulsification by the oil. I completely understand your theoretical concerns but the filtering, emulsification, particle sizes and their soft nature do not ordinarily result in much sump accumulations (sludge). If you are developing sludge and precipitating particles into the sump then something else is probably wrong.

Anyhow if you want to verify what is happening to your own motor send a sample annually to Blackstone and they will tell you.

Over tens and tens of motor builds the most frequent damage mechanism is probably liquid water (including coolant.) But my comments notwithstanding I do not see that any special attention needs to be paid to this issue when the motor manufacturers themselves do not think so to start with.

Charles

 

[Meriachee]

To quote Stu, "your boat, your choice". It doesn't mean there's a problem like Justin suggests. If you're changing the oil anyway, why let the dirty stuff sit in there for the big sleep?

 

[Maine Sail]

Here's where Universal/Westerbeke weigh in on the subject..

"Below is a checklist of items to be performed on your diesel engine or your generator for winter lay-up.:

Lubrication System:
With the engine warm, drain ALL the lubricating oil from the oil sump. Remove and replace the oil filter; place some paper towels and a plastic bag around the filter to catch the oil while removing it.

When installing the new oil filter, be sure to apply a small amount of oil on the sealing "O" ring at the base of the filter. Fill the sump with the correct amount of oil for your engine model (Ref: Operator's Manual or Technical Manual). Use an oil with an A.P.I. Spec. CC. Run the engine and check for proper oil pressure and insure that there are no leaks.

Do not leave old engine lubricating oil in the sump over the winter lay-up period. Lubricating oil and combustion deposits combine to produce harmful chemicals which can reduce the life of internal engine parts."

Oh and don't forget the reversing transmission;

"Transmission:
Drain the lubricant from your transmission and/or V-Drive. Refill with the proper lubricant to the full mark on the transmission dipstick. Run the engine and shift the transmission into forward and reverse one/two times. Stop the engine and check the transmission oil level; add lubricant as needed. Check for leaks."

And the raw water circuit too:

"Sea Water Circuit:
Close the thru hull seacock. Remove the raw water intake hose from the sea cock. Place the end of this hose into a 5-gallon bucket of clean fresh water. Before starting the engine, check the zinc pencil found in the primary heat exchanger on the engine and clean or replace it, if required. Clean your sea strainer, if one is installed in the inside of the hull.

Start the engine and allow the raw water pump to draw the fresh water through the system. When the bucket empties, stop the engine and refill the bucket with an antifreeze solution slightly stronger than needed for winter freeze protection in your area.

Start the engine and allow all of this mixture to be drawn through the raw water system. Once the bucket empties, stop the engine. This anti-freeze mixture should protect your raw water circuit from freezing during winter lay-up, as well as providing corrosion protection.

Remove the impeller from your raw water pump (some antifreeze mixture will accompany it, so catch it in a bucket). Examine the impeller. Acquire a replacement if needed and a cover gasket. Do not replace the impeller back into the pump until the Spring commissioning."

 

[Charles Erwin]

Here is a Yanmar view.

"LONG-TERM STORAGE
The engine can normally stand idle for up to 6 months. If it remains unused for longer than this, please contact your authorized Yanmar Marine dealer . . ."

Charles

p.s. By memory John Deere, Caterpillar, and Cummins say 6 months is OK.

 

[Maine Sail]

Here is a Yanmar view.

"LONG-TERM STORAGE
The engine can normally stand idle for up to 6 months. If it remains unused for longer than this, please contact your authorized Yanmar Marine dealer . . ."

Charles

p.s. By memory John Deere, Caterpillar, and Cummins say 6 months is OK.

Having taken Yanmar training classes and Cummins training classes they both advise an oil change before winter layup.

As do folks like Don Casey/Boat US..

Don Casey:
"Dirty oil sitting idle becomes destructive to the internal surfaces of the engine. If your boat will be idle for a while--over the winter, for example — it is imperative to remove the contaminated oil and fill the engine with clean oil."

West Advisor:
"Change the engine’s oil and replace the oil filter. Why do this now, instead of waiting until spring? Because the old, dirty oil contains contaminants and acids that will harm the engine during the lay-up. Clean oil is a must for the health of your engine. Change the oil in the transmission too, for similar reasons. Be sure to first run the engine up to operating temperature and change the oil while it’s warm. This helps drain all the contaminants and gunk away with the oil."

From the Yanmar training class material:
"WINTERIZING
1. Drain crankcase and transmission and refill with fresh oil as specified in owner's manual. Change oil filters."

As has been said, anyone can do as they wish on their own boat...

 

[Charles Erwin]

This is not going well but I believe in fact. And I cannot find even one study that talks about this.

Manufacturer recommendations vary - and none or them tells you why they draw these lines. Apart from no actual published data - over many motor builds - I cannot remember a case where motor damage could be explained by a failure to change oil in the fall - or for that matter anytime the motor sat idle for a good long time.

Understand a layup oil change - especially using anti-corrosive/anti-rust additive - cannot hurt. But the original question is whether failure to perform a fall oil change offers any advantage. No matter personal opinion

So what data supports that conclusion?

 

[Meriachee]

It doesn’t require any data to know that clean oil is better than dirty oil, and if you’re going to change it anyway, why the argument?