Where are the sailors of Catalina 14, 16, 18, 22, 25/250 and 27. Can we get some activity here? I own a 2003 C250 Wing Keel. Can't sail right now because I just decorated it with lights for the holidays. There will soon be many boats cruising the canals of Punta Gorda Isles. January, back to sailing.
Where are all the small Catalina owners?
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Most of them are on their Association websites
which are specific to their boats. The C25/C250 website would be right up your alley.
which are specific to their boats. The C25/C250 website would be right up your alley.
We are here..
Been here since 03. There are plenty of us..keep looking. Many topics refer to any boat, so we look and participate in a varity of great discussions. And, many of us "old salts" simply read and learn. So welcome, we are here.
Been here since 03. There are plenty of us..keep looking. Many topics refer to any boat, so we look and participate in a varity of great discussions. And, many of us "old salts" simply read and learn. So welcome, we are here.
I'm here a lot
I try to check in for questions I might be able to help with every day but sometimes don't make it. Fair Winds, Jon Catalina 22 Happy Daze
I try to check in for questions I might be able to help with every day but sometimes don't make it. Fair Winds, Jon Catalina 22 Happy Daze
Check in occasionally
About 7-8 years ago, I was a frequent visitor to this site. That was right after I bought my '93 C-18. Since then, I've helped to form the C-18 Nat'l Assn, and last year, the C-18 owner's group (cat18owners) was formed on Yahoo! Groups. Those are the places where the C-18 sailors usually go. I also find the trailersailor.com general forum to be a good place for small boat sailors.
About 7-8 years ago, I was a frequent visitor to this site. That was right after I bought my '93 C-18. Since then, I've helped to form the C-18 Nat'l Assn, and last year, the C-18 owner's group (cat18owners) was formed on Yahoo! Groups. Those are the places where the C-18 sailors usually go. I also find the trailersailor.com general forum to be a good place for small boat sailors.
C25 Association
Yes, Bob, the current hot topic on the C25 website revolves around a dues increase. That will blow over. The bulk of the dues at the C25/250/Capri Assoc pays for the Mainsheet magazine. The remainder covers the expenses of the website and a little bit pays for trophies and stuff at the National Regatta. Legitimate expenses, IMO, for a national association. (No, I'm not a racer and would not benefit from the suggested new expenditures.) If you visit the C25 site, you'll find that the vast majority of the postings there relate to sailing issues specific to our boats. You won't find better C25 tech tips, for example, anywhere else on the web. Don't let the healthy discussion that is currently going on negatively influence your opinion. Besides, as it stands now, you don't have to be a dues paying member to participate.
Yes, Bob, the current hot topic on the C25 website revolves around a dues increase. That will blow over. The bulk of the dues at the C25/250/Capri Assoc pays for the Mainsheet magazine. The remainder covers the expenses of the website and a little bit pays for trophies and stuff at the National Regatta. Legitimate expenses, IMO, for a national association. (No, I'm not a racer and would not benefit from the suggested new expenditures.) If you visit the C25 site, you'll find that the vast majority of the postings there relate to sailing issues specific to our boats. You won't find better C25 tech tips, for example, anywhere else on the web. Don't let the healthy discussion that is currently going on negatively influence your opinion. Besides, as it stands now, you don't have to be a dues paying member to participate.
Result Of Bad Management
This is the result of the officers reducing the Association to just the few who use the C25-250 forum (http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/default.asp). They have stopped communicating with members through their newsletter and now are trying to stop the Mainsheet which is the only means of contacting all the PAYING members. They have lost nearly a third of their membership and now want to use the dues for their own purposes and are now threatening to raise those dues while removing the expense of the Mainsheet. In the thread "Commodore Resigns" (http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16664). Steve Milby, a long time member and former Commodore writes, "There was a year or two when the officers decided that their expenses to attend the national regatta should be paid by the Association, and the animosity that it generated almost destroyed the organization." This is the same situation now led by the Vice Commodore Bill Meinert, whose goal is to dominate the so called "Nationals" where 4, yes 4, boats compete for the title of "National Champion".
This is the result of the officers reducing the Association to just the few who use the C25-250 forum (http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/default.asp). They have stopped communicating with members through their newsletter and now are trying to stop the Mainsheet which is the only means of contacting all the PAYING members. They have lost nearly a third of their membership and now want to use the dues for their own purposes and are now threatening to raise those dues while removing the expense of the Mainsheet. In the thread "Commodore Resigns" (http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16664). Steve Milby, a long time member and former Commodore writes, "There was a year or two when the officers decided that their expenses to attend the national regatta should be paid by the Association, and the animosity that it generated almost destroyed the organization." This is the same situation now led by the Vice Commodore Bill Meinert, whose goal is to dominate the so called "Nationals" where 4, yes 4, boats compete for the title of "National Champion".
C14.2
KD4P Capri 14's have a website at www.capri14.org Its a nice site and fairly active. Quite a few of these boats in s. Calif and Ariz. Simple enough that there are relatively few technical problems to discuss. RK
KD4P Capri 14's have a website at www.capri14.org Its a nice site and fairly active. Quite a few of these boats in s. Calif and Ariz. Simple enough that there are relatively few technical problems to discuss. RK
Wrong!
C25-Observer, at least have the courage to post your name for crying out loud. Your post is utter nonsense and hysterical. What is going on at the C25/250/Capr25 site is a healthy discussion about dues and such. No one is trying to get away with anything. Sheesh, get a life. And as for your comment "They have stopped communicating with members through their newsletter" well, DUH. No organization in its right mind uses newsletters anymore. It is a waste of money. They use the Internet! For all of you with 25' Catalinas feel free to come on over and check out the wealth of information on the forums!
C25-Observer, at least have the courage to post your name for crying out loud. Your post is utter nonsense and hysterical. What is going on at the C25/250/Capr25 site is a healthy discussion about dues and such. No one is trying to get away with anything. Sheesh, get a life. And as for your comment "They have stopped communicating with members through their newsletter" well, DUH. No organization in its right mind uses newsletters anymore. It is a waste of money. They use the Internet! For all of you with 25' Catalinas feel free to come on over and check out the wealth of information on the forums!
Randy's right!!
Again! "Observer" that was a pretty cheap shot with a distorted view of reality. Try again.
Again! "Observer" that was a pretty cheap shot with a distorted view of reality. Try again.
Then Listen To A Former Officer
Arlyn Stewart was an officer and found a way for 25/250 members to continue to communicate when the last melt down happened. He writes, "I'm not sure how much changes in ten years regarding what the membership wants. Then, the officers decided to raise membership fees from $20 to $35 for the purpose of supporting racing. The membership spoke out against it and the officers wrongly began censoring the forum and removing criticism of the racing subsidy. An alternative forum was brought online within a couple of days and the association forum died a quick death. The whole leadership team resigned and special elections produced a recovery and reversal to the $20 membership fee. I'd suggest the history of that rejection should be taken as a signal to think carefully before assuming that the membership will fall in step. This is a hot issue with the power to be divisive. Even if a membership vote approved doing so, it would undoubtedly cost members." C25-Observer http://c25-250-observer.blogspot.com/
Arlyn Stewart was an officer and found a way for 25/250 members to continue to communicate when the last melt down happened. He writes, "I'm not sure how much changes in ten years regarding what the membership wants. Then, the officers decided to raise membership fees from $20 to $35 for the purpose of supporting racing. The membership spoke out against it and the officers wrongly began censoring the forum and removing criticism of the racing subsidy. An alternative forum was brought online within a couple of days and the association forum died a quick death. The whole leadership team resigned and special elections produced a recovery and reversal to the $20 membership fee. I'd suggest the history of that rejection should be taken as a signal to think carefully before assuming that the membership will fall in step. This is a hot issue with the power to be divisive. Even if a membership vote approved doing so, it would undoubtedly cost members." C25-Observer http://c25-250-observer.blogspot.com/
Respect
I have great respect for Arlyn's point of view. His reference to something that occurred in the distant past is relevant in the discussion but, I think, an extreme position. He may be right or wrong. But, at least we know who he is. We will never know if he is right or wrong without the discussion that is currently taking place. This domination theory you accuse the Vice-Commodore of is clearly not based anything that I've read on the forums. Your vitriole is based on something that is not clear to me but it is clearly not related to the current discussion. Please stop taking things out of the context of the discussion in which they occur. Just out of curiosity, what would you have the association do for you today to make your sailing experience a better one?
I have great respect for Arlyn's point of view. His reference to something that occurred in the distant past is relevant in the discussion but, I think, an extreme position. He may be right or wrong. But, at least we know who he is. We will never know if he is right or wrong without the discussion that is currently taking place. This domination theory you accuse the Vice-Commodore of is clearly not based anything that I've read on the forums. Your vitriole is based on something that is not clear to me but it is clearly not related to the current discussion. Please stop taking things out of the context of the discussion in which they occur. Just out of curiosity, what would you have the association do for you today to make your sailing experience a better one?
Participation of all PAYING members
John, The fact is less 70 forum members who may or may not be assoc. members use the forum on a regular basis. There approximately 400+ members down from 600+. Under Frank Hopper there was a concentrated effort to reduce the participation of membership to just forum users. He basically said if you don’t post on the forum you’re not a member. That continues under the current officers. Elections are now limited to forum users, the fleet structure is being let to wither on the vine and as you see from the thread the web site is neglected and is uninteresting to most members. Ten years ago we fought to build the forum and keep it open to non-members so they could learn about our boats and it has become a valuable asset but we also worked to develop new fleets, tell their stories and share their adventures. That is all being pushed aside so 4, how many? FOUR boats can claim to be National Competitors. By consolidating the governance of the association to the few who use the forum they are achieving what they couldn’t do ten years ago. BTW – WE post as C25-Observer and the blog C25/250 Association Observer is written by a handful of “observers” who are sadly watching the slow demise of the association. C25-Observer http://c25-250-observer.blogspot.com/
John, The fact is less 70 forum members who may or may not be assoc. members use the forum on a regular basis. There approximately 400+ members down from 600+. Under Frank Hopper there was a concentrated effort to reduce the participation of membership to just forum users. He basically said if you don’t post on the forum you’re not a member. That continues under the current officers. Elections are now limited to forum users, the fleet structure is being let to wither on the vine and as you see from the thread the web site is neglected and is uninteresting to most members. Ten years ago we fought to build the forum and keep it open to non-members so they could learn about our boats and it has become a valuable asset but we also worked to develop new fleets, tell their stories and share their adventures. That is all being pushed aside so 4, how many? FOUR boats can claim to be National Competitors. By consolidating the governance of the association to the few who use the forum they are achieving what they couldn’t do ten years ago. BTW – WE post as C25-Observer and the blog C25/250 Association Observer is written by a handful of “observers” who are sadly watching the slow demise of the association. C25-Observer http://c25-250-observer.blogspot.com/
Playground
I'm reminded of a story about a little boy that didn't get his way on the playground so he stomped off shouting "I'll get you!" or somesuch nonsense. Then, he stands at the sidelines and criticises every dribble and pass made by the kids still playing the game. Again, Randy was right: Sheesh, get a life. If you want to be taken seriously, engage in the dialogue seriously. If you're a PAYING MEMBER and don't participate, don't blame those that do for your lack of participation. There is not anything standing in your way. If you don't want to participate in the forum and don't go to the races that you're entitled to attend, why are you a member? The MAINSHEET? I'd guess Catalina would send you one directly if you asked. Why do you send money to somebody that you so obviously don't want to be around? You're exactly right, the association is largely the forum. That is what I want from the association. I pay the dues to support that. I recognize many do not and that's OK with me. Frankly, I don't know what else the association could do for me. I don't race and am essentially a daysailer. The only criteria for racing in the Nationals, as far as I understand it, is to own a C25/250 or Capri (next year) and pay your own way to race. There is nothing sinister about it. The previous board of officers practically begged for volunteers to host the next one. Fleet formation is up to those that want one. On my dock, there are 4 or 5 C25s and my 250. None of us has ever expressed an interest in calling ourselves a "fleet" We don't sail together. We hardly see one another. Others, in San Diego, for example decided that "Fleet" designation was important to them and they did what it takes to form one. There's another group in Tennessee that recently brought up interest in the idea. I would suggest that there is only a handful of boats that go to the "nationals" is a function of the limited number of C/25/250 owners that want to race. Face it, it isn't a racing boat. A C25 racing advocate (who will remain nameless here) has described the C25 racing experience as like racing a Winnebago at LeMans. I'd guess that the OVERWHELMING majority of C25 owners, let alone members, are not serious sail racers. If you have actually been "observing" the forum recently, you'll recall that there has been (admittedly limited) discussion about regionalizing the racing events. Also, it is an expensive proposition. In my case, as an example, it would require the purchase of an vehicle big enough to trailer my boat. Only the C25 Swing keel and the C250 Water Ballast are truly trailerable boats. The others, including my wing keel, are transportable by trailer but not a trailer-sailer in any practical sense. As to the reference Arlyn made. I would suggest that what happened was the Association simply exercised a simple rule of organizations. The membership decided to remove the leadership that wasn't serving them. The fact that it "re-located" on the web is incidental. I'd suggest that the organization is essentially the same and the officers were "democratically" removed because the membership didn't want to follow what they saw as bad ideas. (It just occurred to me that you may one of those "removed" officers. That would explain the vitriole.) So, the question still remains: What could the association DO TODAY to make YOUR sailing experience better?
I'm reminded of a story about a little boy that didn't get his way on the playground so he stomped off shouting "I'll get you!" or somesuch nonsense. Then, he stands at the sidelines and criticises every dribble and pass made by the kids still playing the game. Again, Randy was right: Sheesh, get a life. If you want to be taken seriously, engage in the dialogue seriously. If you're a PAYING MEMBER and don't participate, don't blame those that do for your lack of participation. There is not anything standing in your way. If you don't want to participate in the forum and don't go to the races that you're entitled to attend, why are you a member? The MAINSHEET? I'd guess Catalina would send you one directly if you asked. Why do you send money to somebody that you so obviously don't want to be around? You're exactly right, the association is largely the forum. That is what I want from the association. I pay the dues to support that. I recognize many do not and that's OK with me. Frankly, I don't know what else the association could do for me. I don't race and am essentially a daysailer. The only criteria for racing in the Nationals, as far as I understand it, is to own a C25/250 or Capri (next year) and pay your own way to race. There is nothing sinister about it. The previous board of officers practically begged for volunteers to host the next one. Fleet formation is up to those that want one. On my dock, there are 4 or 5 C25s and my 250. None of us has ever expressed an interest in calling ourselves a "fleet" We don't sail together. We hardly see one another. Others, in San Diego, for example decided that "Fleet" designation was important to them and they did what it takes to form one. There's another group in Tennessee that recently brought up interest in the idea. I would suggest that there is only a handful of boats that go to the "nationals" is a function of the limited number of C/25/250 owners that want to race. Face it, it isn't a racing boat. A C25 racing advocate (who will remain nameless here) has described the C25 racing experience as like racing a Winnebago at LeMans. I'd guess that the OVERWHELMING majority of C25 owners, let alone members, are not serious sail racers. If you have actually been "observing" the forum recently, you'll recall that there has been (admittedly limited) discussion about regionalizing the racing events. Also, it is an expensive proposition. In my case, as an example, it would require the purchase of an vehicle big enough to trailer my boat. Only the C25 Swing keel and the C250 Water Ballast are truly trailerable boats. The others, including my wing keel, are transportable by trailer but not a trailer-sailer in any practical sense. As to the reference Arlyn made. I would suggest that what happened was the Association simply exercised a simple rule of organizations. The membership decided to remove the leadership that wasn't serving them. The fact that it "re-located" on the web is incidental. I'd suggest that the organization is essentially the same and the officers were "democratically" removed because the membership didn't want to follow what they saw as bad ideas. (It just occurred to me that you may one of those "removed" officers. That would explain the vitriole.) So, the question still remains: What could the association DO TODAY to make YOUR sailing experience better?
Cowards
If you are really a group of association members then you are pathetic. Reveal yourselves cowards! For me the association IS the forum. I don't race and I don't want to create a fleet. I am happy at my club with lots of different boats and folks. The 250 forum is a great site with lots of useful information being exchanged. What is really laughable is the hullabaloo over a potential $10-15 dollars a year increase. Are you kidding me?? If they raise the fee to $35 and use the $ to help fleets or racers then fine, I still have the great forum. You wont see me go away sulking over chump change. You clearly have an axe to grind. Stop hiding. Come out in the open and stand behind your convictions. You are scalawags.
If you are really a group of association members then you are pathetic. Reveal yourselves cowards! For me the association IS the forum. I don't race and I don't want to create a fleet. I am happy at my club with lots of different boats and folks. The 250 forum is a great site with lots of useful information being exchanged. What is really laughable is the hullabaloo over a potential $10-15 dollars a year increase. Are you kidding me?? If they raise the fee to $35 and use the $ to help fleets or racers then fine, I still have the great forum. You wont see me go away sulking over chump change. You clearly have an axe to grind. Stop hiding. Come out in the open and stand behind your convictions. You are scalawags.
Shills
What we seem to have here are two shills for reducing the association to the few who use the forum on a regular basis. Randy writes; “For me the association IS the forum. I don't race and I don't want to create a fleet.” John writes: “You're exactly right, the association is largely the forum. That is what I want from the association. I pay the dues to support that. I recognize many do not and that's OK with me.” His final thought of “I recognize many do not and that's OK with me.” Is the most telling. It’s OK with him to disenfranchise ¾ of the membership as it is to the past Commodore Frank Hopper and the current V.C. Bill Meinert. Reducing the participation of the association to the few that use the forum consolidates any discussion of the Nationals leaving the ill won silver to a few and the governance of the association to a handful. Just the way they want it. That makes raising the dues and use of that money more under their control without a care as to what members may think. C25-Observer http://c25-250-observer.blogspot.com/
What we seem to have here are two shills for reducing the association to the few who use the forum on a regular basis. Randy writes; “For me the association IS the forum. I don't race and I don't want to create a fleet.” John writes: “You're exactly right, the association is largely the forum. That is what I want from the association. I pay the dues to support that. I recognize many do not and that's OK with me.” His final thought of “I recognize many do not and that's OK with me.” Is the most telling. It’s OK with him to disenfranchise ¾ of the membership as it is to the past Commodore Frank Hopper and the current V.C. Bill Meinert. Reducing the participation of the association to the few that use the forum consolidates any discussion of the Nationals leaving the ill won silver to a few and the governance of the association to a handful. Just the way they want it. That makes raising the dues and use of that money more under their control without a care as to what members may think. C25-Observer http://c25-250-observer.blogspot.com/
Wrong again
I'm not a shill for anybody. You have, again, taken words out of context. I have a terrific imagination. I can't imagine what you want the association to do for you that it currently is not doing. You can avail yourself of everything that is offered. You can suggest (as can we all) new things for it to do. I wouldn't disenfranchise anyone. What was clear in the context of my comment was that it is OK with me a portion of my dues pays for people who wish to avail themselves of the forum knowledgebase and not pay for the privilege. I'm a big fan of the free exchange of ideas. You still have not said a single specific thing that you want the association to do for you. If you don't want to use the forum and you don't race, what is it that you want? Do you want to form a fleet? You can do that. Do you want to take advantage of member discounts at various vendors? You can do that. Do you want to learn from the many experienced sailors? You can do that. Do you want to enjoy a little chuckle or a big laugh at somebody's humorous misadventures? You can do that. Do you want to share your knowledge with others? .....getting the picture here? If you can't articulate a specific need or desire that isn't being met, I would suggest that you simply enjoy anonymous sniping. If you can demonstrate that you have, in fact, been sorely used, I might even be in your corner. Right now, I just hear whining. Randy's right again, that's cowardice and, it's juvenile. Grow up.
I'm not a shill for anybody. You have, again, taken words out of context. I have a terrific imagination. I can't imagine what you want the association to do for you that it currently is not doing. You can avail yourself of everything that is offered. You can suggest (as can we all) new things for it to do. I wouldn't disenfranchise anyone. What was clear in the context of my comment was that it is OK with me a portion of my dues pays for people who wish to avail themselves of the forum knowledgebase and not pay for the privilege. I'm a big fan of the free exchange of ideas. You still have not said a single specific thing that you want the association to do for you. If you don't want to use the forum and you don't race, what is it that you want? Do you want to form a fleet? You can do that. Do you want to take advantage of member discounts at various vendors? You can do that. Do you want to learn from the many experienced sailors? You can do that. Do you want to enjoy a little chuckle or a big laugh at somebody's humorous misadventures? You can do that. Do you want to share your knowledge with others? .....getting the picture here? If you can't articulate a specific need or desire that isn't being met, I would suggest that you simply enjoy anonymous sniping. If you can demonstrate that you have, in fact, been sorely used, I might even be in your corner. Right now, I just hear whining. Randy's right again, that's cowardice and, it's juvenile. Grow up.
The way I see it is everyone gets a vote
Randy might not care about anything but the forums and John has other opinions and some others in the C25 association might only care about racing. Its all good. I think when you have a Catalina Association you have to strive to reach out to all the owners of that boat. Paying Member and "potential" paying members alike. Active Members and "lurkers", Racers and cruisers, etc etc If you only service and/or allow those active on the forum to be a member I would say you are losing a lot of potential members (which would be dues paying members and thus help to keep the dues increase down). I think it comes down to getting as many options out there for the members to use as you feasibly can. I am an officer of a Catalina Association (the C36MKII Tech Editor) and I have been doing it for a number of years now and I gotta tell you , its a lot of work. I didn't go seeking the job (It was more like I was 'volunteered' for the job by a past commodore that saw I was active on the old Sailnet email lists when it came to technical issues) We don't get paid to do this and everything people see is the result of lots of members putting in a lot of work. We try hard to bring as much value as we can to the members and the potential members, we are constantly trying to come up with ideas and ways to service our members, but I think its important to be inclusive. We know not everyone wants to participate in the same way so we think its important to give as many options as possible -- everyone is different. Thats why we have multiple ways for our members to find use out of our C36IA. I like to think we have one of the best Catalina Associations there is (sorry Stu ;D ) We have the website with story's, pictures, how to's, upgrades and the On-Line forums and then we also have the email list for the people that want a little more banter. We also have a "Tool Box" for members to borrow tools very specific to our C36's and we can't forget the Tech Notes CD that the Commodore put together that's a compilation of the past 25 years of tech Notes also along with Owners manuals for the boats and systems (personally I think this is invaluable as a boat owner). Heck - we even created and Published a" Sailing Sunsets" book of members pictures of their C36 at sunset - its available to anyone and the proceeds go to the association. Some Local Fleets are very strong and some are fledgling. Some people could care less about the Website but love the camaraderie of the local fleets. So we also encourage and support fleet development as best we can, but that's really up to local people. And lets not forget the Mainsheet. Not everyone wants to "go online" and many people (myself included) like a hardcopy of something to read. ( Sometimes its just not the same reading your laptop computer at the "head"
) Its about inclusion and options - We struggle all the time with dues increases. Its not easy, there are rising costs everywhere and the Mainsheet & shipping costs are a big percentage of the dues but I still think its very important piece of what makes it a "Catalina Association". Another thing we struggle with is do we give access to everyone and what do we give to "paying members" ?. If we give access to everyone for everything then you won't have people seeing the value in paying their dues. You need to show them the value of what joining the Association brings. If not, anyone could just start up a website like C25-Observer has done, but I think that is a very sad development which splinters the owners, dilutes the knowledge base and in the end everybody gets less and loses What I would suggest for the C25 group it to try and band back together and make it inclusive. If not all the members wants all the "perks" then create a secondary membership that's reduced fees but still inclusive. In the C36IA we have a reduced fee "Associate Member" for people that don't want the mainsheet (or already get it) but still want to be a member for any of many different reasons. You'd be amazed we have quite a few other boat owners like C34 & C42 that are active in our group and email lists (which happens to be open to anyone) and I think its safe to say that our C36IA email list is one of the more active out there.
Randy might not care about anything but the forums and John has other opinions and some others in the C25 association might only care about racing. Its all good. I think when you have a Catalina Association you have to strive to reach out to all the owners of that boat. Paying Member and "potential" paying members alike. Active Members and "lurkers", Racers and cruisers, etc etc If you only service and/or allow those active on the forum to be a member I would say you are losing a lot of potential members (which would be dues paying members and thus help to keep the dues increase down). I think it comes down to getting as many options out there for the members to use as you feasibly can. I am an officer of a Catalina Association (the C36MKII Tech Editor) and I have been doing it for a number of years now and I gotta tell you , its a lot of work. I didn't go seeking the job (It was more like I was 'volunteered' for the job by a past commodore that saw I was active on the old Sailnet email lists when it came to technical issues) We don't get paid to do this and everything people see is the result of lots of members putting in a lot of work. We try hard to bring as much value as we can to the members and the potential members, we are constantly trying to come up with ideas and ways to service our members, but I think its important to be inclusive. We know not everyone wants to participate in the same way so we think its important to give as many options as possible -- everyone is different. Thats why we have multiple ways for our members to find use out of our C36IA. I like to think we have one of the best Catalina Associations there is (sorry Stu ;D ) We have the website with story's, pictures, how to's, upgrades and the On-Line forums and then we also have the email list for the people that want a little more banter. We also have a "Tool Box" for members to borrow tools very specific to our C36's and we can't forget the Tech Notes CD that the Commodore put together that's a compilation of the past 25 years of tech Notes also along with Owners manuals for the boats and systems (personally I think this is invaluable as a boat owner). Heck - we even created and Published a" Sailing Sunsets" book of members pictures of their C36 at sunset - its available to anyone and the proceeds go to the association. Some Local Fleets are very strong and some are fledgling. Some people could care less about the Website but love the camaraderie of the local fleets. So we also encourage and support fleet development as best we can, but that's really up to local people. And lets not forget the Mainsheet. Not everyone wants to "go online" and many people (myself included) like a hardcopy of something to read. ( Sometimes its just not the same reading your laptop computer at the "head"
) Its about inclusion and options - We struggle all the time with dues increases. Its not easy, there are rising costs everywhere and the Mainsheet & shipping costs are a big percentage of the dues but I still think its very important piece of what makes it a "Catalina Association". Another thing we struggle with is do we give access to everyone and what do we give to "paying members" ?. If we give access to everyone for everything then you won't have people seeing the value in paying their dues. You need to show them the value of what joining the Association brings. If not, anyone could just start up a website like C25-Observer has done, but I think that is a very sad development which splinters the owners, dilutes the knowledge base and in the end everybody gets less and loses What I would suggest for the C25 group it to try and band back together and make it inclusive. If not all the members wants all the "perks" then create a secondary membership that's reduced fees but still inclusive. In the C36IA we have a reduced fee "Associate Member" for people that don't want the mainsheet (or already get it) but still want to be a member for any of many different reasons. You'd be amazed we have quite a few other boat owners like C34 & C42 that are active in our group and email lists (which happens to be open to anyone) and I think its safe to say that our C36IA email list is one of the more active out there.You're right, Tom
Tom, the C25 group IS ALL INCLUSIVE. That's exactly my point. Members can avail themselves of everything the association offers. Non-members can avail themselves of some of the things offered. If a member chooses to opt out of some things, don't blame the rest of the group. If a member wants the group to do something it isn't currently doing, have the courage of your convictions to at least say what that thing is. Whoever is anonymously whining out there is attempting to paint a picture that is not the reality. To return this thread to kd4ao's original question, there are many owners of Catalina 25's, 250's and Capris that are actively, productively and cheerfully engaged with one another at the Catalina 25/250/Capri 25 International Association. Come and check us out. Become a member if you're so inclined. Fair winds. I'm done.
Tom, the C25 group IS ALL INCLUSIVE. That's exactly my point. Members can avail themselves of everything the association offers. Non-members can avail themselves of some of the things offered. If a member chooses to opt out of some things, don't blame the rest of the group. If a member wants the group to do something it isn't currently doing, have the courage of your convictions to at least say what that thing is. Whoever is anonymously whining out there is attempting to paint a picture that is not the reality. To return this thread to kd4ao's original question, there are many owners of Catalina 25's, 250's and Capris that are actively, productively and cheerfully engaged with one another at the Catalina 25/250/Capri 25 International Association. Come and check us out. Become a member if you're so inclined. Fair winds. I'm done.
I read through C25-Observers links and posts
More thoroughly and I think I understand what his "beef" is. C25-Observer correct me if I am wrong. Its not necessarily that there are dues increases, but rather that important decisions are not asked or voted on by any members but those active on the Forum Website. If that's the case then I'd have to agree with C25-Observer . You can't just send out an important vote via the "web" and disregard the other members . As noted the Web Forums are only used by less than 20% of the dues paying members We struggle to reach all our members. We don't have a quarterly mailed newsletter . I don't think that we ever did have a snail mail newsletter, that is why we have the Mainsheet. We don't do it that frequently but when we need to reach out and have a Vote for whatever reason we make sure we try and reach all the paying members. its not ease and it costs money but its important. We were able to get to all members by including an insert in the Mainsheet that only went to C36 members. It is true that the highest % of responders were the ones active on the Web and email lists but you can't exclude all dues paying members from at least getting a chance to vote. Now with that said I will say that you can't put every little thing to a Vote for the membership, it would take too long to put things thru, to costly, too slow and just ineffectual. The Association officers need to be able decide what and how to use the funds outside of the fixed costs like Mainsheet . Then if the general membership thinks they can do it better then I say they should volunteer for the onerous job of running the association or one of the other positions
More thoroughly and I think I understand what his "beef" is. C25-Observer correct me if I am wrong. Its not necessarily that there are dues increases, but rather that important decisions are not asked or voted on by any members but those active on the Forum Website. If that's the case then I'd have to agree with C25-Observer . You can't just send out an important vote via the "web" and disregard the other members . As noted the Web Forums are only used by less than 20% of the dues paying members We struggle to reach all our members. We don't have a quarterly mailed newsletter . I don't think that we ever did have a snail mail newsletter, that is why we have the Mainsheet. We don't do it that frequently but when we need to reach out and have a Vote for whatever reason we make sure we try and reach all the paying members. its not ease and it costs money but its important. We were able to get to all members by including an insert in the Mainsheet that only went to C36 members. It is true that the highest % of responders were the ones active on the Web and email lists but you can't exclude all dues paying members from at least getting a chance to vote. Now with that said I will say that you can't put every little thing to a Vote for the membership, it would take too long to put things thru, to costly, too slow and just ineffectual. The Association officers need to be able decide what and how to use the funds outside of the fixed costs like Mainsheet . Then if the general membership thinks they can do it better then I say they should volunteer for the onerous job of running the association or one of the other positions
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