While being laid up with a bug over the last couple of days I read through lots of back issues of sailing magazines. In several boat reviews it was mentioned that the European version was sold with a tiller as this was the preference over there, while the American version came with a wheel. I have seen this difference mentioned before, but it begs for a more detailed explanation of why the Europeans prefer a tiller. Anybody know the answer? Kevin
Wheel or tiller steering
- Thread starter Kevin B
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Okay, Europeans, let's hear...
I suppose it's only fair we let the European readers of this forum, if there are any, answer the question, but I will say that I enjoyed the traditional feel of the tiller on my Catalina 25; at the same time, wheel setups give a more secure basis for autohelm systems and I'm glad my Cal 28 has a wheel for this purpose. What I would really like is a setup that allows the wheel to be taken down and a nice wooden tiller to be set up on the tiller post for those days when you feel like doing the steering, but that won't happen unless new boat owners start asking for it.
I suppose it's only fair we let the European readers of this forum, if there are any, answer the question, but I will say that I enjoyed the traditional feel of the tiller on my Catalina 25; at the same time, wheel setups give a more secure basis for autohelm systems and I'm glad my Cal 28 has a wheel for this purpose. What I would really like is a setup that allows the wheel to be taken down and a nice wooden tiller to be set up on the tiller post for those days when you feel like doing the steering, but that won't happen unless new boat owners start asking for it.
What can't a tiller steered boat
Have a below deck autopilot? Other than the cost difference between a wheel pilot what is the difference?
Have a below deck autopilot? Other than the cost difference between a wheel pilot what is the difference?
David, I imagine it's a safety problem
If my H34s below deck pilots' ram went 'full over' and the boat was equipped with a tiller,,,well, you're going to move or get cut in two. Of course, the tiller would keep going into the cockpit wall until the ram maxed out its' power. (over 600#) Something will give. On a pedestal boat, nothing happens except for the wheel moving. At the limit of travel, the alarm sounds. On second thought, not much imagination needed. That installation is never done.
If my H34s below deck pilots' ram went 'full over' and the boat was equipped with a tiller,,,well, you're going to move or get cut in two. Of course, the tiller would keep going into the cockpit wall until the ram maxed out its' power. (over 600#) Something will give. On a pedestal boat, nothing happens except for the wheel moving. At the limit of travel, the alarm sounds. On second thought, not much imagination needed. That installation is never done.
Tiller
My own opinion is that tillers just don't make sense to those new to sailing. "You mean you push it to the right to go left? That doesn't make sense!" While I personally like tillers for various reasons, a wheel is far easier to use for newbies. And if you don't want to sail alone, better keep the crew happy!
My own opinion is that tillers just don't make sense to those new to sailing. "You mean you push it to the right to go left? That doesn't make sense!" While I personally like tillers for various reasons, a wheel is far easier to use for newbies. And if you don't want to sail alone, better keep the crew happy!
tiller vs. wheel
I really don't see the learning curve as as issue here. It is very simple to adapt to the tiller or the wheel. The tiller offers a more sensitive feel, but as the boat gets larger, more power is needed for the larger rudder, and a tillers power is in its leverage or length, which translates into an encumbrance in the cockpit. The wheel works better for larger boats. I think it is idiotic on a small boat, anything under 30 feet. Just my opinion anyway.
I really don't see the learning curve as as issue here. It is very simple to adapt to the tiller or the wheel. The tiller offers a more sensitive feel, but as the boat gets larger, more power is needed for the larger rudder, and a tillers power is in its leverage or length, which translates into an encumbrance in the cockpit. The wheel works better for larger boats. I think it is idiotic on a small boat, anything under 30 feet. Just my opinion anyway.
Tiller/Wheel?
Not just the Europeans. Smaller boats do not have high steering loads so tillers are fine. They give a superior sensitivity, much more direct feel, faster response and fold away to clear the cockpit for party time. They are substantially cheaper too. I visit the Royal Thames YC building in central London and they have a 10 foot long tiller on the wall. I marvel at it as it must have been some brute of a yacht. Regards to all from "Euroland"
Not just the Europeans. Smaller boats do not have high steering loads so tillers are fine. They give a superior sensitivity, much more direct feel, faster response and fold away to clear the cockpit for party time. They are substantially cheaper too. I visit the Royal Thames YC building in central London and they have a 10 foot long tiller on the wall. I marvel at it as it must have been some brute of a yacht. Regards to all from "Euroland"
Tillers and below-deck autopilots
Most tillers are hinged so they can be tilted up out of the way when not in use. e.g., when at anchor or when the below-deck autopilot is engaged. Size of the boat is also not an issue. Lots of large, high-performance raceboats, e.g. Vendee Globe, have tillers and many of them operate dual rudders. IMHO, most cruising boats have wheels because: a) it's more comfortable to sit behind a wheel and face forward than it is to sit sideways on a cockpit seat and turn your head to the side to keep a lookout forward. Ouch. b) a big wheel in the cockpit looks cool (at least to those who don't appreciate the beauty of a well-varnished ash and mahogany tiller) c) wheels are more intuitive to use than tillers That being said, a tiller takes up less room in the cockpit, can be swung up out of the way when not in use, will never mislead you about rudder angle, has no linkages that will wear out or break, gives direct feedback from the helm (including boatspeed), can be straddled to steer the boat while freeing both hands to trim sails (or open a cold one) and is easily rigged with the mainsheet or jibsheet to steer the boat without a complicated windvane or power-hungry autopilot. Peter H23 "Raven"
Most tillers are hinged so they can be tilted up out of the way when not in use. e.g., when at anchor or when the below-deck autopilot is engaged. Size of the boat is also not an issue. Lots of large, high-performance raceboats, e.g. Vendee Globe, have tillers and many of them operate dual rudders. IMHO, most cruising boats have wheels because: a) it's more comfortable to sit behind a wheel and face forward than it is to sit sideways on a cockpit seat and turn your head to the side to keep a lookout forward. Ouch. b) a big wheel in the cockpit looks cool (at least to those who don't appreciate the beauty of a well-varnished ash and mahogany tiller) c) wheels are more intuitive to use than tillers That being said, a tiller takes up less room in the cockpit, can be swung up out of the way when not in use, will never mislead you about rudder angle, has no linkages that will wear out or break, gives direct feedback from the helm (including boatspeed), can be straddled to steer the boat while freeing both hands to trim sails (or open a cold one) and is easily rigged with the mainsheet or jibsheet to steer the boat without a complicated windvane or power-hungry autopilot. Peter H23 "Raven"
Fred, Peter brings up a good point
about big racing boats. All the pictures of Open Class 40, 50 and 60 footers that I have seen should these boats use tillers, and they use electric powered auto pilots. As I recall one of the two Canadian boats in the last Around Alone had to drop out when generator or engine failure resulted in not being able to get power for the auto pilot. Of course if you are solo sailing I guess you don't have to worry about the crew getting hit by a auto pilot driven tiller. Kevin
about big racing boats. All the pictures of Open Class 40, 50 and 60 footers that I have seen should these boats use tillers, and they use electric powered auto pilots. As I recall one of the two Canadian boats in the last Around Alone had to drop out when generator or engine failure resulted in not being able to get power for the auto pilot. Of course if you are solo sailing I guess you don't have to worry about the crew getting hit by a auto pilot driven tiller. Kevin
Tiller/Wheel?
Donalex, Good to hear some input from the UK. I don't know if an American publication's reference to "European's" is intended to include everyone on your side of the pond or is specically refering to the continent, and excludes the UK. Would you hazard a guess at what percentage of UK boats are tiller vs. wheel? Kevin
Donalex, Good to hear some input from the UK. I don't know if an American publication's reference to "European's" is intended to include everyone on your side of the pond or is specically refering to the continent, and excludes the UK. Would you hazard a guess at what percentage of UK boats are tiller vs. wheel? Kevin
Kevin, there are many reasons...
...some of which are mentioned in the other posts, while others are only implied. And since we're just finishing up two years in N Europe, I can assure you the preference you mention is quite prevalent almost everywhere (tho' relatively less so in England). 1. Small boat sailing programs are a more common way for sailors to begin sailing in Europe...so the tiller is the default starting point and therefore, psychologically, seems 'right'. In North America (NA), many of us start out on bigger boats...where wheels are more common in NA to begin with. 2. Hull forms are almost universally fin with skeg (usually, semi-balanced) rudder over here, so the weather helm on the typical boat is less than if it were a barn door rudder. Tillers suit the underbodies of most boats and, conversely, hull forms are designed with a tiller in mind, even if a wheel can be retrofitted for export (H-R, Malo, Najad are all examples of this). 3. In defiance to logic, cockpits are used heavily in Europe despite the seasonal climate and often grey/cold/wet weather. It's pretty rare to see a cockpit not (temporarily) enclosed once a boat arrives at a marina or after its anchored. Meals are eaten there, socializing with evening coffee, and lazy mid-morning breakfasts are all the norm in an enclosed cockpit (which can be erected in only a few minutes or folded away as quickly). A tiller makes that space far more functional for those purposes. (On the Gulf Coast and along the SE U.S., we'd all die from suffocation if we erected an enclosure most of the year!) 4. Altho' one sees the same long-term trend to larger boats in N Europe that we see in NA, it isn't happening as quickly nor as comprehensively; many boats are still 8-10M LOA (for both cost and berthing reasons). These boats just naturally are more suitable for tiller steering and I think many N European sailors would feel someone was trying to impress if they put an unnecessary wheel on a boat like that. 5. Given the climate, N European sailors have to really enjoy sailing in order to choose that activity and suffer the much higher costs involved. And the enjoyment available in sailing is clearly more accessible when using a tiller than with one's hand on a wheel. It's a more sensual, more direct experience. 6. Club and other kinds of informal racing is pretty common here, much as it used to be in NA. Racing with a wheel would seem odd to many. 7. Short sailing seasons and, usually, long winters where boats get a great deal of care and suffer less extreme use, result in boats lasting a long time while looking almost new. This in turn results in a much longer time for a shift away from any trend to take effect. I'm sure there are other reasons, but these are the ones that stand out in my mind. Jack
...some of which are mentioned in the other posts, while others are only implied. And since we're just finishing up two years in N Europe, I can assure you the preference you mention is quite prevalent almost everywhere (tho' relatively less so in England). 1. Small boat sailing programs are a more common way for sailors to begin sailing in Europe...so the tiller is the default starting point and therefore, psychologically, seems 'right'. In North America (NA), many of us start out on bigger boats...where wheels are more common in NA to begin with. 2. Hull forms are almost universally fin with skeg (usually, semi-balanced) rudder over here, so the weather helm on the typical boat is less than if it were a barn door rudder. Tillers suit the underbodies of most boats and, conversely, hull forms are designed with a tiller in mind, even if a wheel can be retrofitted for export (H-R, Malo, Najad are all examples of this). 3. In defiance to logic, cockpits are used heavily in Europe despite the seasonal climate and often grey/cold/wet weather. It's pretty rare to see a cockpit not (temporarily) enclosed once a boat arrives at a marina or after its anchored. Meals are eaten there, socializing with evening coffee, and lazy mid-morning breakfasts are all the norm in an enclosed cockpit (which can be erected in only a few minutes or folded away as quickly). A tiller makes that space far more functional for those purposes. (On the Gulf Coast and along the SE U.S., we'd all die from suffocation if we erected an enclosure most of the year!) 4. Altho' one sees the same long-term trend to larger boats in N Europe that we see in NA, it isn't happening as quickly nor as comprehensively; many boats are still 8-10M LOA (for both cost and berthing reasons). These boats just naturally are more suitable for tiller steering and I think many N European sailors would feel someone was trying to impress if they put an unnecessary wheel on a boat like that. 5. Given the climate, N European sailors have to really enjoy sailing in order to choose that activity and suffer the much higher costs involved. And the enjoyment available in sailing is clearly more accessible when using a tiller than with one's hand on a wheel. It's a more sensual, more direct experience. 6. Club and other kinds of informal racing is pretty common here, much as it used to be in NA. Racing with a wheel would seem odd to many. 7. Short sailing seasons and, usually, long winters where boats get a great deal of care and suffer less extreme use, result in boats lasting a long time while looking almost new. This in turn results in a much longer time for a shift away from any trend to take effect. I'm sure there are other reasons, but these are the ones that stand out in my mind. Jack
Counter-intuitive with wheel!
With all my previous sailing experience being done with a tiller, I found the wheel on our small cruiser hard to get used to at first. I wonder if it is just me or if others had the same problem. Subconsciously, I was equating steering the wheel to port the same as moving the tiller to port (vice versa for starboard)! I wasn't doing this on the tacks and gybes, only when sailing along and making the minor adjustments for boat trim that we constantly make. It drove me crazy for a while because I was weaving like I was under the influence!
It took only a little while to get past this phase. I like the wheel because I don't have to constantly switch seats every time we come about, which we do a lot on our small lake! I don't like sitting on the leeward side. Everybody would be playing musical chairs!
With all my previous sailing experience being done with a tiller, I found the wheel on our small cruiser hard to get used to at first. I wonder if it is just me or if others had the same problem. Subconsciously, I was equating steering the wheel to port the same as moving the tiller to port (vice versa for starboard)! I wasn't doing this on the tacks and gybes, only when sailing along and making the minor adjustments for boat trim that we constantly make. It drove me crazy for a while because I was weaving like I was under the influence!
It took only a little while to get past this phase. I like the wheel because I don't have to constantly switch seats every time we come about, which we do a lot on our small lake! I don't like sitting on the leeward side. Everybody would be playing musical chairs!
Tillers on Open class boats
Just a thought. Aren't those open class boats single handers? Those two very long tillers on those very wide, specialized boats would cause some problems if they were on a fully crewed yacht with a large afterguard.
Just a thought. Aren't those open class boats single handers? Those two very long tillers on those very wide, specialized boats would cause some problems if they were on a fully crewed yacht with a large afterguard.
Jack, good points!
Jack, you touched on a number of points which make the tiller bias better understood. Thanks, Kevin
Jack, you touched on a number of points which make the tiller bias better understood. Thanks, Kevin
I have a tiller, but I prefer a wheel. I feel it actually takes less room in the cockpit when under sail because the tiller swings a wide arc. I have a tiller on my Telstar, and it extended 3/4 of the way to the bulkhead! I shortened it, as did many other Telstar owners.
Another reason I prefer the wheel is that I sail with a non-sailor. My wife did not come up through small boats. She is not comfortable with a tiller like I am. Thus, a wheel helps her feel more confident driving the boat. I do not always want to drive. I love handling the sheets and halyards.
I would be intrigued with a system that would allow both. I do enjoy the “feel” of a tiller and the easier indexing. Those factors are lost with a wheel.
Another reason I prefer the wheel is that I sail with a non-sailor. My wife did not come up through small boats. She is not comfortable with a tiller like I am. Thus, a wheel helps her feel more confident driving the boat. I do not always want to drive. I love handling the sheets and halyards.
I would be intrigued with a system that would allow both. I do enjoy the “feel” of a tiller and the easier indexing. Those factors are lost with a wheel.
I'm going to agree with the comment above about cockpit size and wheel. Larger (over 30 feet) boats typically have more landscape in the cockpit area and a wheel is a natural fit. With a good pedestal setup, all instrumentation, engine controls are in one easy console. With a smaller boat, a tiller gives you great feel for the boat, roll control, responsive steering. Most have some means of folding away to give more space in the cockpit when not underway. My H260 has a tiller, but the design of the stern rail, and the tiller arm, does not allow for a fold away option. Anyone have a fix, DIY or suggestion? Currently I pull it to one side with a bungee when at anchor.
For this European I can say the tiller gives more feedback through the stick, more responsive and quicker to manoeuvre through the tack/jibe, plus when in port, tie the tiller up which leaves a lot more space in the cockpit. I don't think I would like a tiller on anything greater than 35 foot, this is the longest yacht I have sailed with a tiller and at times there was plenty forces on the arms.
I have yet to sail my H260 which is on a tiller so we will see in the Spring. My last yacht was 16.5 metres on a wheel and if you didn't have that balanced or reefed as it should this could also be an arm ache trying to prevent weather helm. For me definitely nothing to do with being traditional or even European, just my preference.
I have yet to sail my H260 which is on a tiller so we will see in the Spring. My last yacht was 16.5 metres on a wheel and if you didn't have that balanced or reefed as it should this could also be an arm ache trying to prevent weather helm. For me definitely nothing to do with being traditional or even European, just my preference.
For those of us who grew up with small outboard motors the tiller takes absolutely no training, but for my spouse and kids, it was a problem. After using a tiller for a few years, the wheel (which seems intuitive) caused some foolishness on my part.
The tiller provides more tactile feel for the boat's motion. As someone said it takes less cockpit space, but that's only when the boat is at rest. In use, it has a large sweep. Tiller pilots are cheap compared to wheel pilots.
It's simply a matter of preference.
The tiller provides more tactile feel for the boat's motion. As someone said it takes less cockpit space, but that's only when the boat is at rest. In use, it has a large sweep. Tiller pilots are cheap compared to wheel pilots.
It's simply a matter of preference.
When we raced the Farr 40 it initially had a destroyer wheel. We did tear it out and went to the tiller. The helm feedback was better, and when I had to start the races, the tiller was faster in response versus the wheel. Tacks and jibes were also faster. It also allowed us to do fake tacks. With the tiller we would move the crew around like we were tacking, start the tack, and throw the tiller around to our original course. For cruising, I do prefer the wheel.