The foils could be external by hanging the hull underneath. Is there a rule about the structure being integral to the hull?
- Will (Dragonfly)
The new AC boat
- Thread starter Jackdaw
- Start date
- Will (Dragonfly)
In an article I read, one of the design parameters is that the rig will not need to be removed each day for trickle-down affects to other classes. This is difficult with the current wing sails but they said that sail plan was still in development.
Funny statement after just watching 2 minutes of animated video.
If you know the people behind the effort, and what they want for the future of the Americas Cup, and their experience in doing these sorts of things and bringing them to fruition , you wouldn't think it funny at all.
I don't see your point. That's not a wing sail, its not an AC boat. Its a TP52, designed to race and sail in open waters.
It might be for some. In the 12M while match racing, the starts were awesome, but once a boat got ahead it was over 80% of the time. And while the following match racing tactics would be interesting to the purist, not many average fans would sit and watch that whole race.
The point was that as long as you have more than one boat on the course, you cannot assume that there will be a safe & tranquil environment, no matter what pristine little bay you may choose to race in.
Perhaps we could have the boats race in a wind tunnel, in a pool with calibrated currents, indoors & race only one boat at a time, then compare course times. Perhaps we can just make up race simulation videos like the concept video that was presented at the start of this thread & just derive enjoyment from watching them, rather than actually building boats & racing at all. Perhaps the races could be scripted, like "professional wrestling". Perhaps we could have the AC Matrix Cup & have Keanu Reeves star as the wining captain.
Iron men in wooden boats, out in the wild ocean waters, battling for first place with nothing more than their whits & what they brought on board when they left the docks, is what once made the America's Cup great. That has now been lost. The people that continue to perpetuate the farce that the current AC event has any real roots in the once great tradition seem to have no concept of how the baby was thrown out with the bath water.
...But that's just my opinion.
I agree. Only hard core yacht racing enthusiasts did appreciate the 12 meter rule cups. The tactics and strategy, especially in RI Sound were exciting to watch for folks who understood what was taking place. That's really the nature of 1 design racing. If one boat works out a lead with a perfectly executed tack into a wind shift, then the excitement derives from whether they can hold onto the lead or do they lose it on another shift, which they may or may not detect. Do I cover or stand on? A well sailed boat stays ahead and this is what appears to be boring to some, but exciting to 1 design sailors who understand what is happening. Who can forget the excitement of the 12's approaching the first windward mark when we find out who really is ahead?
We were talking about the applicability and reasonability of Wing sails in the Americas cup boats.
The NOR and Sailing Instrcutions for the Americas Cup very clearly define the wind ranges and seastate limits that can exist on the course. If they’re outside the limits at the start, the postpone. If they develop during the race, they cancel.
So yes they do describe the environment that the designers and teams can assume the races will be run in.
My actual point was that having more than one boat on the course at one time adds a slice of the unknown to the equation. The rest of it was just me poking fun a little bit.
Regards,
Jim
Regards,
Jim
Actually, an honest comment on the design:
I think that the foil arms would be better if they were shorter. I also think that they could be sized smaller & both could be left in the water, rather than retracting one. The arm angles could still be variable & as such could control the heel angle & the wind spill out of the canvas, allowing operation in higher winds.
I think that the foil arms would be better if they were shorter. I also think that they could be sized smaller & both could be left in the water, rather than retracting one. The arm angles could still be variable & as such could control the heel angle & the wind spill out of the canvas, allowing operation in higher winds.
I understand it's all a matter of advertisers and number of viewers, but isn't it unfortunate that the rules have to be changed just so more spectators will watch AC races. I mean jeez... how many people watch football who don't understand what's going on? if you enjoy the game, you learn the basic rules and how the game is played. have football rules been dramatically changed to accommodate the folks who weren't watching? I know... AC is limited market and $$, but it's still sad the true sport of sailing has to suffer.
I'm very happy to see the AC design go back to being a little more traditional (mono) anyway, so I can't complain too much.
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Yes, exactly. The audience who watched 12 meter racing was very limited back in the day. The first series I remember where there was TV coverage of the actual races was the year Dennis Conner went down to Australia with his boat Stars and Stripes, and recaptured the America's Cup after the loss to the wing keeled Aussie boat in 1983. I believe the series was sailed in Fremantle where every race was in heavy air, very different from the conditions in RI Sound. The races were shown on TV in the middle of the night in the US and the coverage was excellent from helicopters (before drones) . Just thinking of that series gives me goosebumps. It was incredible.I understand it's all a matter of advertisers and number of viewers, but isn't it unfortunate that the rules have to be changed just so more spectators will watch AC races. I mean jeez... how many people watch football who don't understand what's going on? if you enjoy the game, you learn the basic rules and how the game is played. have football rules been dramatically changed to accommodate the folks who weren't watching? I know... AC is limited market and $$, but it's still sad the true sport of sailing has to suffer. sad.
I don't think that boat design has anything to do with the spectators. Viewership is virtually non-existent. Sure, they pan the meager crowds in an attempt to stimulate interest. Relatively speaking, it's just not there in any magnitude that generates sponsorship. If they had any interest in spectators, why in the world did they run the last one in Bermuda of all places?
These guys build their boats simply to fulfill their own desires, that's why it changes so much from event to event. If they really wanted spectator interest, they would try to build on tradition ... you know, like they do with the Triple Crown of horse racing.
Instead, they run in the rarified air of a select group of billionaires. Sponsorship is really about belonging to the club, it's not about advertising. From an advertising standpoint, these events are absurd for being completely meaningless to spectators.
There is nothing wrong with this. Plenty of people are awash in the money that gets floated around for these events. It employs a lot of people, so who's to complain? Just let them design their boats the way they want and run the races in their own manner. It's not about spectatorship and they aren't even interested in making a buck out of it OR promoting the sport of sailboat racing. They are basically amateur yachtsmen with unlimited funds, who employ gobs of people and professional sailors to put on a spectacle of their own desire. The sense of tradition that would capture the interest of many of us sailors has long since disappeared, I think, anyway.
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It's amazing how much discussion America's Cup threads get. I agree and disagree with much of what is said previously. But to stay current, I agree with Scott's comments. It isn't about making money - although plenty of money is made. It isn't about advertising - probably the worst ROI advertising has every seen. Anyone remember Tyco? It was never about the public. It really isn't about sailing. This competition has been about mega rich people wagging their wieners. And some very skilled sailors get to ride the competition to the highest level of sailing.
I for one think the design is pretty interesting, and I’m excited to see it when the class rule is released and when racing starts. It sounds like the foils will be ballasted so there should be some amount of traditional monohull physics. I’m not sold on their claim that a furling code 0 counts as “sail handling”, but like Jackdaw said traditional downwind spinnakers are probably not coming back. That said I’m pretty happy with the compromises this seems to make.
Gotta admit this style of sailing has a certain charm, just watch this Hobie Trifoiler. Not an afternoon wine and cheese cruise.