Swing keel

[ancbob]

I took ownership of a 1977 catalina 22 back in August of last year. Been working on getting her ready on and off over the winter. One issue to be addressed was that when the boat was put in storage 5 years ago, it was not trailered properly. What I mean is, if you were standing at the stern, looking forward, the keel was off the v support to the starboard side of it. The metal v was bent over as well. I had my first chance to inspect the keel from underneath tonight and have included snapshots from that inspection of the keel bolts. Needless to say, I am pretty bummed from what I discovered. My question is, when I replace the keel bushing, I am not quite sure how to locate the new bushing accurately in relation to the bolt housing. I do have access to a magnetic drill for attaching to the keel, bot am concerned about location and the squareness of the hole for the bushing. I have the DVD for removing the keel, and have read catalina direct's information. I am looking for help from anyone who has actually done this.

 

[Ken]

Looks like the pin is not the right size, hole looks like it might have some damage because of this. I think your going to find the drill bit will follow the original hole once the press is in place and leveled, the keel is pretty flat at the upper end and the magnetic press sets up nicely.

At least one bolt broken that will have to be addressed. This can be a real bear to get out, but if all fails the insert can be replaced.

First thing build a sled to drop the keel into, this will not only be safer but make dealing with it much safer. You might want to consider having it sand blasted once out.

 

[whatcaneyedo]

I just tackled this problem with my own boat. The keel pivot hole was really oblong and had to be be built back up with weld by a machine shop. Once the keel is out you should be able to see where it was originally. Plus the new hanger assembly from CD will cause it to sit a little lower anyways. There are lots of pictures and details from my experience in my thread. http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=148410&page=2

EDIT: Kingairdriver's thread also has some really good advice on getting broken bolts out from the hanger inserts. I think he had the heads come off of two but was able to extract them.

 

[CaptDon01]

MAN! That's a GREAT thread! (Heck of a job too)

Don

 

[ancbob]

Thanks to all for the input. I know that there is a lot of information already out there on the net, but the moral support is really appreciated. I am surprised that the original keel appears to have been built with no bushing in the keel itself. I'm taking the "eating an elephant" approach on this one. Tomorrow night we will set the boat properly on the trailer. At least that will allow more of a degree of comfort when we start to remove the keel. I will try to post some pics as we go along.

 

[KingAirDriver]

We had 3 of the 4 bolts break.

5 hour job.

Super hard center punch, Carbide drill bits, left hand twist if you can manage it, but rights work equally as well. Bottom tap. Some picks and tiny needle nose pliers.
Anti seize.

Start out with a good strong shot to as close to center as possible with the center punch. Start with a smaller bit, dunk in anti-seize, commence drilling.

You should go bigger in steps.

Take your time, it does suck, but it could be worse.

Keep us posted!

 

[GorillaToast]

We had 3 of the 4 bolts break.

Start out with a good strong shot...

Keep us posted!

Always good advice when tackling a broken bolt extraction job. ;-)

 

[KingAirDriver]

That kind of shot, I needed 3! LOL

 

[RonanDavid]

I took ownership of a 1977 catalina 22 back in August of last year. Been working on getting her ready on and off over the winter. One issue to be addressed was that when the boat was put in storage 5 years ago, it was not trailered properly. What I mean is, if you were standing at the stern, looking forward, the keel was off the v support to the starboard side of it. The metal v was bent over as well. I had my first chance to inspect the keel from underneath tonight and have included snapshots from that inspection of the keel bolts. Needless to say, I am pretty bummed from what I discovered. My question is, when I replace the keel bushing, I am not quite sure how to locate the new bushing accurately in relation to the bolt housing. I do have access to a magnetic drill for attaching to the keel, bot am concerned about location and the squareness of the hole for the bushing. I have the DVD for removing the keel, and have read catalina direct's information. I am looking for help from anyone who has actually done this.

I have done this successfully. I have a few more tools at my disposal because I own a lift truck and have a warehouse. I unbolted the keel from the boat and lifted the boat approximately 1 foot higher. I used steel racks to support the boat and pulled the trailer out from under the boat with the keel supported with pieces of 2x4's. I had the keel sandblasted down to raw steel. It was very pitted and yes the hole for the pin was very worn. I put a piece of 1" pvc pipe into the hole and the pin fit very snug. applied an antifowling epoxy to the keel / several coats and sanded inbetween coats to acheive a smooth surface. The new parts from Catalina Direct did not fit, so I cleaned up the old brackets and used the new brass pin. It was very tricky getting the keel positioned perfectly to attach the keel. hydrolic jacks area must... Good luck

 

[whatcaneyedo]

The new hanger from CD is deliberately a little too large so that it can be sized down to fit almost snug and eliminate the original wobble and clunk of the keel. I was able to size mine down and make it fit with a belt sander, grinder and drill.

 

[ancbob]

I would be curious to hear about different ways that people have tackled the problem of a worn keel hole. The machine shop welding is one, but any other ideas?

 

[whatcaneyedo]

I also had it suggested to me to have the worn hole bored even larger so that either a larger nylon or brass bushing could be made and pressed in. Then when the larger bushing was in place a new pivot hole could be drilled in the centre of it. This probably wouldn't require any welding however for precision you'd probably still want a machine shop to do it. The trouble with welding cast iron the way mine was done is its very difficult and time consuming, hence the nearly $700 price tag I paid.

 

[ancbob]

I also had it suggested to me to have the worn hole bored even larger so that either a larger nylon or brass bushing could be made and pressed in. Then when the larger bushing was in place a new pivot hole could be drilled in the centre of it. This probably wouldn't require any welding however for precision you'd probably still want a machine shop to do it. The trouble with welding cast iron the way mine was done is its very difficult and time consuming, hence the nearly $700 price tag I paid.

Yes, the $700 price tag is a bit much. I was just thinking if I did something like an oversized delrin plug, press fit into the keel. With the brass cd brass sleeve inside if that. Replacing either as needed down the road. This boat will be used only in fresh water. With regular inspections, it can't be any worse than what I am seeing right now.

 

[CCrane2299]

I also had it suggested to me to have the worn hole bored even larger so that either a larger nylon or brass bushing could be made and pressed in. Then when the larger bushing was in place a new pivot hole could be drilled in the centre of it. This probably wouldn't require any welding however for precision you'd probably still want a machine shop to do it. The trouble with welding cast iron the way mine was done is its very difficult and time consuming, hence the nearly $700 price tag I paid.

Completely uninformed post coming so take it for what it's worth...

I had intended to tackle mine today, but it was warm and sunny and the wife wanted to ride in the jeep. Jeep ride won.

I understood the keel was steel, not cast iron, and could be easily welded. If that's not the case, I'll do something different. If it is steel. I was going to bore the hole larger and bush it with a steel bushing, welded in place. I think I can borrow a mag drill, if not they can be rented. Once the hole is larger a machine shop can make a bushing on the cheap. I can weld it in and fill/grind it to perfection. Then put a new pin in...maybe sourced from same machine shop, and live happily ever after. I also intended to leave it under the boat, held by the winch/cable at one end and supported by a jack/fixture on the other. after the pin repair, i was going to work on the cable end. How flawed is my plan?

 

[whatcaneyedo]

The old owners manuals say steel but pretty well everyone on here including myself has cast iron. I'm a carpenter by trade so metal really isn't my thing. No matter what I was going to have to get someone else to handle that project for me. But it was pointed out to me that if you grind cast iron (and I did) it will spark very little compared to steel.