Steadying Mast While Raising

[Tedd]

My Mac 26S came without a mast raising system, so I've made something myself that works quite well. But one drawback is that it requires a second person to steady the mast while it's being raised. It seems like it ought to be possible to rig up some way of steadying the mast, so that it can be raised single-handed, and there even seem to be a couple of fittings in the hull for exactly that purpose. But it's not at all clear to me how they're meant to be used, and how and where the system would be attached to the mast. How are other people doing it?

 

[justsomeguy]

Search for the term "baby stays" in the quick search box above.

 

[Tedd]

Thanks, I didn't know they were called baby stays. But, yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. I couldn't find anything on this forum, but a wider search turned up some photos and details on other forums.

 

[walt]

looks like you may have your problem solved.. but if you want some pictures / measurements of what I have.. let me know. 26S is in the side yard now so easy. FYI, the mast raising stays work great, I raise the mast myself all the time. Very easy.

 

[Tedd]

Walt:

I would love to see what you do on your 26S. Blue Water has a baby stay kit for the C and the X, but they don't seem to have one for the S and I'm not sure if the C one will work. So I'm planning to make something myself, and I'm looking for ideas.

 

[Sumner]

You can see the baby stays above (middle arrows). More on the whole deal here...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/rigging-2.html

Since the deck eye straps aren't quite on the hinge point of the bottom of the mast you need to put them on a little looser coming down in our case,

Sumner
=====================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

 

[topcat0399]

I used to use different things for baby stays but now I just use
the boom vang tackle for one side and the backstay tackle for the other.

Works just fine and is fully adjustable.

 

[walt]

Here you go.. Mine is similar to Sumners except that Im using 1/8 inch ss cable. I put some measurements in the pictures, hopefully at least somewhat accurate. FYI, I can leave these attached even when the mast is in trailer mode (bottom of mast attached to the bow pulpit)

This was all mostly in place when I bought the boat. I did verify that the eye straps attached to the deck have some sort of backing plate on the inside as you dont want these ripping out.

Note that for the eye strap on the mast (one on each side), these are held in with bolt (not metal screws which might pull out). So the the same two bolts in the mast picture hold both eyestraps on the mast. Not show on the other side are the nylon lock nuts and the other mast eye strap.

When I slip the boat for months or even a week, I will remove the baby stays at the deck - undo the oval boats. Baby stay still is always attached at the mast, I just clip the bottom end to where the gin pole attaches to the mast base.

 

[walt]

FYI, "C" includes both the "D" and the "S" models. So if BW has something for a "C", it should work fine.

 

[Sumner]

...This was all mostly in place when I bought the boat. I did verify that the eye straps attached to the deck have some sort of backing plate on the inside as you dont want these ripping out....

Thanks for the picture. I think that is about where our eye straps are also on the deck. I wonder why they didn't mount them 3 1/2" forward for better geometry? I never checked the underside like you did. I should of, but now that you did I'll assume they are backed up.

I did put a bigger backing plate, top arrow, behind the center forward cleat where the block and tackle attaches...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-17.html

Sumner
===================================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

 

[Tedd]

Hey guys, this answers a lot of my questions, thanks so much!

The system I'm working on is almost identical to Sumner's. One thing that was holding me up is that the anchor points on the deck are very flat. Nothing more than sheet metal will fit through there. I see some of you have eye-straps. Did you have to add them, or is that a later design than mine? (Dragonfly is a 1995.)

With the anchor points being below the pivot axis of the mast, it looks like the baby stays will tighten as the mast goes up. Has anyone found that to be a problem? I was thinking of incorporating some kind of spring or bungee arrangement to take up the slack, or would that be overkill?

 

[topcat0399]

Hey guys, this answers a lot of my questions, thanks so much!

The system I'm working on is almost identical to Sumner's. One thing that was holding me up is that the anchor points on the deck are very flat. Nothing more than sheet metal will fit through there. I see some of you have eye-straps. Did you have to add them, or is that a later design than mine? (Dragonfly is a 1995.)

With the anchor points being below the pivot axis of the mast, it looks like the baby stays will tighten as the mast goes up. Has anyone found that to be a problem? I was thinking of incorporating some kind of spring or bungee arrangement to take up the slack, or would that be overkill?[

Hey guys, this answers a lot of my questions, thanks so much!

Some slacken a little for some distance as they go up with a different pivot point, mine did.
Can make it hairy on side slants especially with wind and doing it alone - which I do a lot.

I made a nylon rope harness that attaches temporarily to the deck cleats on each side deck that raises the baby stay pivot point to exactly where the mast base pivots, and I attach my a fore mentioned tackle to these and then to the mast attachment point. The baby stays never slacken or over tighten. If raising/lowering on a side slant using the tackle on the high side makes for easy instant adjustment.

4 years of trail and error brought me to this point.

 

[Tedd]

Topcat:

I'm having a little trouble visualizing what you explained. Any chance you could provide a photo or a sketch?

 

[Sumner]

......With the anchor points being below the pivot axis of the mast, it looks like the baby stays will tighten as the mast goes up. Has anyone found that to be a problem? ..

They don't have to be real tight as it is ok for the mast to lean side to side a bit as it goes up. I wouldn't add anything to it as it works fine. Once it gets to a certain height the shrouds also hold it,

Sumner
===============================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

 

[topcat0399]

Works like this, the adjustable lines are my boom vang and backstay tackle.
The jib fair leads are special reinforced ones and (just remembered I installed backed eyestraps on the what passes for a Venture toerail for these attachment points).
All of the harness fittings are rated.
Yet Sumner may be right in your case, only you can judge.

I just don't like the feeling I get sometimes when I'm alone, in a slanted parking lot with boat rigs parked in stalls on both sides with a cross wind and my much heavier than stock mast wants to go down hill and/or down wind......

 

[timebandit]

I just use motorcycle tie downs-----easy on, easy off and fully adjustable. The tie downs can be used for other hold down duties also.

 

[Macboy]

And to chime in yet another variation - our Mac has horn cleats on either side of the mast which is where the baby stays attach. Our baby stays are 1/4" rope and I have marked where the rope should pass through the eye of the cleat before making it fast. Easy on, easy off and not painful if left on and subsequently tripped over later.

 

[Wally199526X]

My Mac 26S came without a mast raising system, so I've made something myself that works quite well. But one drawback is that it requires a second person to steady the mast while it's being raised. It seems like it ought to be possible to rig up some way of steadying the mast, so that it can be raised single-handed, and there even seem to be a couple of fittings in the hull for exactly that purpose. But it's not at all clear to me how they're meant to be used, and how and where the system would be attached to the mast. How are other people doing it?

My Mac came with a system, but I did rig a system of my own on a Precision 18 using one truss on one side of the mast instead of two baby stays (since a truss is rigid, it keeps the mast stable because it will neither sag nor stretch). I had to work in a bit of slack with a chain link and screw carabiner, kind of like a bad universal joint, to prevent it from binding on the way up, and I always chose to remove it once rigged. A friend gave me pipe from aircraft aluminum and you will want to look for something similar for a good strength/weight ration. It's another way to deal with your situation.

 

[Tedd]

Thanks, Wally. I'll put some thought into the rigid brace idea.

Meanwhile, my gin pole is working really well, but the baby stays aren't providing the lateral stability I want yet. I rigged up something temporary with rope as a proof of concept test, but it wasn't very successful. Rigidity is definitely important!

 

[Will Gilmore]

Thanks, Wally. I'll put some thought into the rigid brace idea.

As I was reading through the earlier posts, I was thinking you could rig your whisker pole as a rigid brace. No nonessential equipment maybe even use the same brackets on deck to stow while sailing.
Just a thought.

BTW, I love the name of your boat, Todd.

- Will (Dragonfly)