START PROBLEM WITH UNIVERSAL M25

[NICK1951]

Hi All,

I recently, installed a Cole Hersee 24059BP on my glow plug circuit. It reduced the preheat time from 45 to 8 seconds. It works great!

However, when I tried to start the engine, the starter solenoid went click, the bendix did not engage the fly wheel. Obviously, no start. I tapped the starter solenoid with a hammer and the engine started. The battery voltage at the starter B post is 12.6 volts. The battery voltage at the at the male disconnect on the starter solenoid under load is 12.2 volts. Is 12.2 volts adequate?

I have eliminated trailer plugs, replaced copper lugs with tinned, installed 2 Blue Sea bus bars and 1 fuse blocks and replaced the useless fuse holder on the starter solenoid circuit. The battery wires are 4 awg copper. The resistance on the battery circuit is .004. I am comfortable with my ground. I suspect from reading other posts, the starter solenoid circuit may be the weak link.

A hammer tap on the starter solenoid seems to have fixed my start problem.
I am looking for your advice, what would you do first:

1. Install a new solenoid on the starter solenoid circuit to increase the 12.2 voltage? Is the Cole Hersee 24059BP the correct solenoid?

2. Have the starter and solenoid rebuilt?

3. Replace the starter and solenoid with a China knockoff?

4. Subscribe to Tow Boats US?

5. Nothing?

I have a 1984 Catalina 36 with a Universal M25.


Thanks.

Nick

 

[dlochner]

Hi All,

4. Subscribe to Tow Boats US?

Yes.

Try replacing the solenoid wires with 10 gauge.

Double check all your grounds, especially at the engine.

This winter take the starter and solenoid to a local auto electric shop, the mom and pop kind and have them rebuild it. Cheaper than a new starter and better workmanship than a knock off.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

A 30/40 auto relay is what I installed on my M25. The starter circuit is marginally designed. I’m guessing you have the start on the key switch - not many key switches can handle the 32A the starter selonoid requires when first turned on. You could use another CH relay but they are a bit over kill. The circuit I have for starting is described in the latest Mainsheet. Just use the current starter solenoid wire as the +coil wire, common goes to the same place as your glow plug relay power goes (starter battery lug). Coil - to Ground. The NO goes to the starter selonoid.

If you read the important upgrades in the Members section of the C36 website it will recommend replacing the red/yellow solenoid wire with 10ga as the current circuit is marginal. I think this is still marginal which is why I installed and recommend a solenoid for the starter solenoid.

The starter on the M25 is different from “normal” starters. It does not have a bendix. Instead the solenoid pushes the starter gear onto the flywheel and then makes up the contacts to power the starter motor.

Edit. I did replace my starter when having start problems( in wasp passage, with @jssailem at the helm and me down in the cabin with wrenches). I used a Bosch starter from eBay $100. It didn’t help. Finally traced it to the cable between battery switch and starter. I also replaced all wiring from engine to panel and back. Again see the latest Mainsheet for detailed write up.

Easy test to see if starter is bad - jumper from starter lug to starter solenoid. I put push terminal on a wire and hook to solenoid so I don’t have two wire to push on
Les

 

[jssailem]

I did replace my starter when having start problems

@NICK1951 He really did replace the starter while under sail.
Did the deed in 30 minutes, lying on his side on the kitchen floor, occasionally talking like a sailor.

He missed some beautiful water. The San Juan Islands, Wasp Passage.

 

[NICK1951]

Hi all,

Thanks for the advice.

Dlochner, I have an unused 10 awg wire, I will connect it between the key switch and the male disconnect on the solenoid. This will replace the 16 awg factory installed wire.

Les, I possess and will install a waterproof 40/60 relay, a lot less real estate than the solenoid.

I purchased a remote starting switch from Amazon. It has alligator clips. I plan to modify it to connect to the 2 fuse holders connected to the starter B post and solenoid male disconnect. Hopefully, this will confirm my issues are resistance and not the starter/solenoid.

By the way, I purchased a $90.00 Chinese knock off starter/solenoid from Amazon for a backup. The OEM was $1,100.00. I plan to take the existing starter to the rebuild shop this fall. It is probably due for a clean up.

Jssailem, I hope you were on a reach in 20 knots of wind, not reefed, when Les installed the starter. Keeping the bolts in the socket should make fore some great pictures!

Hope to see you in the San Juan.Islands, some day.
4 heads are better than 1.

Nick

 

[jviss]

Have the starter and solenoid rebuilt?

That's it.

I had this same problem on a 1984 C36 about 12 years ago. I rebuilt the starter myself. I've had this same problem on a 1961 Pontiac and my Tartan 3800 with Westerbeke 38B-Four. Same fix.

 

[Boomvang]

Hi All,

I recently, installed a Cole Hersee 24059BP on my glow plug circuit. It reduced the preheat time from 45 to 8 seconds. It works great!

However, when I tried to start the engine, the starter solenoid went click, the bendix did not engage the fly wheel. Obviously, no start. I tapped the starter solenoid with a hammer and the engine started. The battery voltage at the starter B post is 12.6 volts. The battery voltage at the at the male disconnect on the starter solenoid under load is 12.2 volts. Is 12.2 volts adequate?

I have eliminated trailer plugs, replaced copper lugs with tinned, installed 2 Blue Sea bus bars and 1 fuse blocks and replaced the useless fuse holder on the starter solenoid circuit. The battery wires are 4 awg copper. The resistance on the battery circuit is .004. I am comfortable with my ground. I suspect from reading other posts, the starter solenoid circuit may be the weak link.

A hammer tap on the starter solenoid seems to have fixed my start problem.
I am looking for your advice, what would you do first:

1. Install a new solenoid on the starter solenoid circuit to increase the 12.2 voltage? Is the Cole Hersee 24059BP the correct solenoid?

2. Have the starter and solenoid rebuilt?

3. Replace the starter and solenoid with a China knockoff?

4. Subscribe to Tow Boats US?

5. Nothing?

I have a 1984 Catalina 36 with a Universal M25.


Thanks.

Nick

I have a 1984 O'Day with a Universal 25 engine. This engine is a Kubota 700 that was converted for marine use by Universal. I recently replaced the starter with solenoid attached. The exact one that is on the engine I bought from a Kubota tractor dealer it was $98.

 

[jviss]

I have a 1984 O'Day with a Universal 25 engine.

Is it a Universal M25? If so, I am pretty sure that's a Kubota D850. But the same starter is probably used on a lot of engines. I think the starter is made by Denso.