Sailing a Hunter 260, questions

[CaptMatt]

I had some questions for 260 owners on the sailing characteristics in unique situations that I couldn't find elsewhere in these forums.
1). In shoal waters, have you sailed with the centerboard partially down, say at a 45 degree angle in very light airs? Can it be done and is it still effective? Can she still reach? upwind?
2) Can you leave the centerboard down bumping occasionally through sandy shoals or will it need to be an "up or down only" decision? I would plan to haul out and repair the centerboard every 2 years to fix any nicks and sand chafing and reinforce the leading edge as needed.
3) Will the centerboard tend to stay up or down when un-cleated? or will it stay down while sailing in shoal areas? if not pinned or cleated, will it naturally go back down after grounding?
4) If moving very slowly in light winds and crabbing sideways over a shallow area, like perhaps in a current, is there a risk of breaking the centerboard when grounding?
5) Has anybody experimented sailing without water ballast in super-calm conditions? For instance, trying to go downwind on a near-calm day in perhaps 2-3 knots of wind? Safe?
6) Do you drain the ballast tank when motoring a long distance in calm winds over calm water such as a lake (with no surprise wind gusts)? Is there any Fuel or speed savings? Safe?
7) Is it ok to leave a 260 permanently moored in a salt water slip? Any problems with growth inside the ballast tanks or within the centerboard trunk? Any other tips? Thanks

 

[rgranger]

I don't know how you would drain the ballast tank while sailing, unless you install a bilge pump in your tank... or pump it out through the vent hole. Tricky.

The swing keel can bump a little, and it is okay to raise it up while on a run... but crabbing is a bad idea.

 

[Dennis Kitchen]

Sure you can sail with it up. Yes you'll eventually lose some windward performance, experiment and see. The main problem in shoal waters is you eventually drag the rudder and it comes up and your steering loads get way too heavy as the rudder tips aft. I sure wish they'd put cassette rudders on these like the Seawards have.
Dennis

 

[rgranger]

... I sure wish they'd put cassette rudders on these like the Seawards have.
Dennis

Hmmmm.... that might be fun to design one for the hunters.

 

[CaptMatt]

A ballast pump isn't standard on the 260? Do you educt the water out somehow under power or sail? Seems odd if you have to drain her half way up a boat ramp each time holding up other boats not to mention the added stress on the trailer and vehicle. Are the ballast ports standard boat plugs?
Is it not practical letting the rudder and centerboard bump up and over shoals? Will they fall back down in deep water or do they have to be manipulated back down? Sorry for all the questions but I haven't seen this discussed anywhere on this forum yet. We do a lot of sailing between sandbars here.

 

[rgranger]

@CaptMatt

The bottom step of you companionway ladder has a wooden cover. Lift that and you will see the ballast tank valve. You losses the large fly nut about two inches and push it down. That opens the ballast tank flange and as you pull the boat up the ramp the water dumps.
It would be unwise to use the boat with the tank empty.

IMHO The only good reason for wanting to partially empty the tank while in the water would be to get off a sand bar or to enter a cove over a shallow bar

 

[Dennis Kitchen]

CA said,
Is it not practical letting the rudder and centerboard bump up and over shoals? Will they fall back down in deep water or do they have to be manipulated back down? Sorry for all the questions but I haven't seen this discussed anywhere on this forum yet. We do a lot of sailing between sandbars here.[/QUOTE]

Always have ballast in the tank when operating power or sail. The ballast fill and drains from a tank cover in the belly of the hull. They can wait for you at the ramp. It won't take long to drain. The rudder is clamped down but not too tightly so it will kick up if hitting obstruction. You have to loosen clamp and put the rudder down and re-tighten.

You don't want to beat your centerboard up on the bottom. The gel coate and skin will fracture, letting water in which will freeze and split when you haul out in the fall.
Do you have the manual?
Dennis

 

[CaptMatt]

We are looking to downsize from a Hunter Legend to a 260 or similar that can handle the numerous sandbars and shoals around here. We joined a friend aboard his 260 awhile back and were sold when we beached it on a remote key and walked ashore. But we would be interested in anything that can basically go up and over the bumps and continue on without too much hassle. It opens up about twice the area to sail around here having that capability.
Concerning the centerboard, I would rebuild or replace it with a solid core eventually if it means I can pass over sand occasionally. Same with purchasing an Ida Sail rudder or similar. One benefit of the smaller boat: more funds for these projects. There are a few kick-up boats like the Presta and 26S we are researching, even a small corsair, but we were hoping to stick with Hunter due to cabin size. The boat will be in the water all year with no trailering. We plan to spend at the most 2-3 nights on the boat at a time preferably beached somewhere. Is this a good fit for us? thanks for all the great feedback.

 

[rgranger]

I think you are over thinking this. The center board on the 260 is not part of the ballast. It is light and can be raised with one hand on a line in about 2 seconds. Let go of the line and it drops back down. And will bounce over most stuff. So just watch the depth gauge and raise it as needed but if you miss something it won't be catastofic leave your rudder clamp a little loose and it will kick up also.

Go sailing!

Catalina also has a similar boat, the 250

 

[Hunter Ad Bot]

And now a word from the sponsor...

Deck fill caps for most Hunter sailboats

Stainless, nylon, in all the shapes and sizes, replacement caps are in stock.
See the product

 

[Dennis Kitchen]

CA,
My 23.5 is of similar set up and yes I pull up the board and rudder and go into shallows and beach the boat. If you're sailing, especially windward and you tip the rudder up more than 15 to 20 degrees you're likely to round up as the rudder loads become excessive. If you can, go back and sail with your friend again on his 260 and have him demonstrate.
Dennis

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

CaptMatt;
I will chime in here. So you know, I was involved with the design, introduction of the boat and nearly sold 20-25 % of these boats as I was a long time small boat dealer for many with Hunter the priority..
First, never let the rudder nor the centerboard bounce. It will cause a fracture of either and then repairs just like Dennis has warned. Also, if grounding and the boat turns on you, There will be additional damage to the attachment area of either. I should know having repaired damage before. If you bounce because of accidental grounding that is one thing but to allow it is not recommended.

Removal of any water ballast unless grounded very badly or trying to get on and off a trailer is one thing but emptying that ballast tank for any reason is UNSAFE. Once I had a bet placed on the boat being lighter and one with a boat being fully ballasted on a 260. The fellow with the lighter ballast had a lot of difficulty keeping the boat handled safely while I was back on the dock waiting for him to come in. I chose not to accept the bet but he learned the hard way. Never take water out of the ballast tank under sail nor motoring. Safer/ Some do say you can take water out going downwind but I say bunk as some will forget to refill the tank on all points of sail and then they learn the hard way.

For experience only, you can raise the centerboard if going directly downwind only but only those experience.

If you ever leave the water ballast tank filled and do not put several cups of cholorox or forget the name of tablets, open up the air vent to the tank and you better have running shoes as the stink will run you out. Your better half may be after you as well. Do treat the tank. There is in the archives much on this point.

I hope this answers your questions but feel free to contact me via the forum email and we can talk further.

 

[rgranger]

Regarding the treating the tank
I got some pool shock powder at Walmart

 

[CaptMatt]

Thanks for your expertise Dave and Granger, very informative. We might need something a bit more robust underneath for where we plan to go. We beat up the daggerboards pretty good and have broken a few centerboard trunks in the area on smaller craft. We will be looking at the Sharpies and swing keel Catalinas. Nothing seems to match the Hunter cabin space however.

 

[Dennis Kitchen]

Thanks for your expertise Dave and Granger, very informative. We might need something a bit more robust underneath for where we plan to go. We beat up the daggerboards pretty good and have broken a few centerboard trunks in the area on smaller craft. We will be looking at the Sharpies and swing keel Catalinas. Nothing seems to match the Hunter cabin space however.

Sounds to me like you need a moto-cross bike or a log jumping swamp skiff; not a sail-boat.

 

[CaptMatt]

Yes Dennis maybe 50% of the areas here outside the ICW are 4 feet or less not to mention all down and around the keys. A kickup centerboard or small multihull is the best option for accessing most areas on any tide. Otherwise it can be a long wait for HW or Sea Tow if you should get stuck.
Dave interested to hear about your bet. Was your friend on the unballasted 260 even able to sail? What were the wind conditions? Will the 260 right herself without ballast if knocked down? How far over can it go? Just curious.
Regarding the ballast, has anyone tried filling the tank with fresh water? That might keep things from growing in there if permanently moored in salt. Maybe the extra density will increase the ballast to displacement ratio. Good info on the chorox and pool shock.

 

[Kermit]

Regarding the ballast, has anyone tried filling the tank with fresh water? That might keep things from growing in there if permanently moored in salt.

I sail in fresh water. Trust me on this... Fresh water can turn N-A-S-T-Y if left in the ballast tank for too long. I'm telling you it was god-awful. I couldn't tell where the smell was coming from but I knew I couldn't get away from it. When I finally pulled the boat out to wash it the smell running down the ramp was N-A-S-T-Y! I added 1/2 gallon of Clorox to the ballast tank at launch. Never again will I leave my boat in the slip without Clorox in the ballast tank. Did I mention that fresh water can turn N-A-S-T-Y?

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Simply I was trying to show sailing without water ballast is unsafe only. It scared him enough never to consider that again. Even with the Catalina 22 swing keel, continous bumping of the swing keel is not good for the way it is attached to the hull. I know your predicament and suggest daysailing unless a catamaran but that too has dagger boards and can be more expensive depending on the boat and gear. Not sure here what to advise on shallow water sailing except to look at shallow draft skeg type fixed keels. Thanks Kermit on chiming in about treating the tank. .