Ruddercraft systems

[Rltgold]

Hi Everyone,
I thought I'd try and start a discussion about Ruddercraft rudder systems. I converted my old original rudder to a new RC system a year and a half ago which includes the rudder, tiller and mast crutch.
I love the rudder and tiller. Being able to swing the rudder up and out of the water is great. I never have to take it off to replace it with the mast crutch anymore.
My rudder does have a slight hum but then I know I'm zipping along at over 5.5 Knts.
What I am not happy with is the mast crutch though. It seems over time the smaller diameter round tube that is supposed to slip up and down in the larger square tube has bent slightly from stepping the mast and now it is a bear to slide up and down. I have started to rig up and old windsurfing mast with a block and tackle to be able to pulpit up for stepping.
If anyone else has any comments please feel free to chime in. I am about to call rudder craft to talk with them about the issue

 

[Leeward Rail]

Considering the length of the crutch I am not surprised it could bend a bit over time.

My own DIY one is bending slightly and it is fairly thick steel tube.
I just straightened it last fall.

Those guys are great just give them a call.

 

[Hardhead]

I have the same Ruddercraft mast crutch set-up - and I know what you are saying. I've been using a kevlar type rope (zero stretch they claim) and I keep the middle tied around the mast crutch "U", and each end drawn tight forward to the jib winch cleats. Get it nice and tight, and tie it off to the cleat. Then - when the mast is pushed back on the crutch, the support lines keep counter-pulling it toward the bow.

 

[Rltgold]

I called them and talked to Jeff. The wall thickness needs to be thicker or a solid round bar. Hardhead your technique works good for getting ready to lower the mast but what about when getting ready to raise it?

 

[Hardhead]

I haven't had any problem with the crutch yet, bringing the mast down the other way - my mast crutch is fairly high, and when I pull the mast forward to bring it down, it's a downhill angle of the mast to roll forward of the crutch. In fact, the damn thing can get a little spirited if I'm not careful and lift up too much walking it forward. I like the high crutch though for bringing the mast down, as I use the "winch strapped to the mast technique" and the angle of pull from the mast mounted winch to the bow gets a little extreme at low angles, so it's good to get it seated in the crutch a distance higher before it gets down to the pulpit. The floppy roller furler and 150% genoa I keep furled adds to unwieldiness of the whole procedure, so I have all kind of adaptations.

 

[Rltgold]

So if I what Ruddercraft to send me a new pole I have to pay for shipping. I don't think I should have to pay anything. What do you think?

 

[Hardhead]

Ruddercraft seems to be a smaller shop, and they've been extremely helpful when I was dealing with them. Called me in follow-up, etc. I suppose they would go broke if they extended service beyond replacing the pole with a new one. The profit margins are not huge. A lot of places would do far less, most likely.

 

[Rltgold]

Bad engineering on their part should not cost me when I've already paid a handsome fee for the system. I own my own company and when something like this happens I never mention money to the customer.

 

[Jackdaw]

I've heard nothing but good things about Ruddercraft as a company.

But there is no way of getting around the fact that most (if not all) of their rudders are made of solid HDPE, which means it is a monolithic piece of plastic. It flexes, and quite a bit when you look at it when going upwind. Not great for performance. A guy at the club bought one this year (even after I told him it would flex) and he's not super happy about it.

 

[Rltgold]

My rudder and it's system works great and was like getting power steering for my boat. Flipping the rudder up work great. The thin pole extension of the mast crutch not so good. I really don't think I should have to pay for shipping to receive a new one. In fact if it's the same wall thickness I will just buy the material locally and fix it my self

 

[Hardhead]

If you get the new pole - try using the rope supports, and you shouldn't have any more problems. I suppose they could increase the size of the square tube the mast crutch tube slides into, (and then increase the tube diameter) but that increase might decrease the turning radius of the rudder, as I believe the square tube supports are permanently attached on the starboard side. A solid pole/tube would be very heavy I would imagine. Not everyone has the problem - but I understand your frustration. I've been royally screwed by companies before, but I wouldn't put Ruddercraft in that category, as they did readily offer to replace the stainless tube, and it costs a fair penny to do that.

 

[Rltgold]

I was just told they only have replacement tube of the same thickness and I would have to pay for shipping so I am now going to say I WOULD NOT RECOMEND RUDDERCRAFT PRODUCTS.

 

[Gene Neill]

So if I what Ruddercraft to send me a new pole I have to pay for shipping. I don't think I should have to pay anything. What do you think?

Forgive me, but what I think is, you had to work pretty hard to bend that thing. Mine has seen it's share of hard work and is straight as an arrow. My honest opinion is, Ruddercraft owes you nothing. And if they're giving you the part for free, you should be grateful.

Again, apologies ... but you did ask.

 

[Rltgold]

Gene,
No apologies nessarary. I did ask. No reason to get the same part and have to pay for shipping. Glad you haven't had any issue.

 

[greg_m]

Forgive me, but what I think is, you had to work pretty hard to bend that thing. Mine has seen it's share of hard work and is straight as an arrow. My honest opinion is, Ruddercraft owes you nothing. And if they're giving you the part for free, you should be grateful.

Again, apologies ... but you did ask.

Imagine the behind the scenes discussions at Ruddercraft!!! "Whaaaat.... he wants it for free....?"

 

[Rltgold]

The guy's at Ruddercraft are probably saying . Jeez this Treece guy is always calling telling us we need to re-engineer another part of our system, and he want us to remake it and send him the new one for FREE.

So I talked to Jeff at Ruddercraft about the mast crutch issue. I am always willing to except responsibility if It's my fault so in an attempt to figure this out I kept an open mind and listen to what he had to say.
I turns out that you are suppose to leave the mast crutch down , then push the mast base back and attach it to the mast foot first. Then raise the mast crutch up there by not bending the upper crutch . That made a lot of sense. Here's the problem with doing it that way for me.
I have a bimini on boat that when it's folded down on the cabin top it is in the way of being able to bring the mast base to the foot and attaching it. I can only do this once the mast crutch is raised up. 2nd thing is even when the mast is laying in the crutch as far forward as it can be ( in the storing /towing position) it is all I can physically do to hold the mast, raise it up while raising up the crutch and finding that little frecking match whole to stick the pin in!
If I were to push the mast back to meet the foot there would be no way I would ever be able to raise the mast crutch at all.
So I think I am going to try the suggestion of tying the head of the crutch back to the cabin. I think that will work to keep it for bending back.
Just a note here if anyone has ever watch any youtube videos on step a 22 mast most people PUSH there masts back with the crutch raised.
In the end I am still going to stick with my first conclusion that Ruddercraft still needs to use a thicker wall tubing or solid round stock for the upper crutch tube.
Thanks for all the help everyone.

 

[Gene Neill]

When I first installed the Ruddercraft crutch, I drilled the rod in two additional places, so I could use the crutch at different heights under different circumstances. Perhaps you could do something similar and create a new height position for the crutch, just high enough for the mast to clear the Bimini? I never use the crutch in its highest position. Maybe that's why yours got bent and mine has not.

I place the mast on my shoulder when raising or lowering the crutch. It would be handy to have a third arm for the procedure, but it's a heck of a lot easier than trying to raise the crutch and the mast at the same time, AND get the holes lined up, AND get the pin though the hole. I know what you're talking about there, it is virtually impossible.

One other thought. I never could get the Ruddercraft's pintles to stay tight. I bought and installed the best, most expensive "distorted-thread" lock nuts on earth, and they still loosened up. Not to the point of being dangerous, but the rudder would go clunk-clunk, clunk-clunk, clunk-clunk, all friggin' day. It was maddening. So I had the pintles welded to the post once and for all.

Hope at least some of this will be helpful.

 

[Rltgold]

Hi Gene, thank for that. To raise the mast and crutch I rig a windsurfing mast from my former life and lash it inside the cockpit with a block and tackle at the top going down to a strap around the mast and crutch. I simply haul all that up to the top so that part is very easy.
My first set of RC pintles broke so they sent me new on free of charge.