RAYMARINE ST1000 PLUS TILLER PILOT

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Brian Buzz

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Nov 29, 2011
90
Catalina 27 0ceanside
I picked up a used auto pilot and installed it per the instructions on my 26S. Went sailing today in light winds to try out the auto tiller and it didn't take long for the tiller to reach the end of the tiller rod in trying to correct the course. I put it on standby right away so not to blow a fuse. Tried it again and it didn't take long for the rod to fully extend again. Seems like the rod is to short. Do I need an extension on the rod for it to work correctly? Was the light winds the problem? or what else? Any ideas? Thanks for your help. This is the
RAYMARINE ST1000 PLUS TILLER PILOT.
 
BudGates

BudGates

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Apr 19, 2012
1,043
O'Day Daysailor 17 Nevis MN
Assuming that you set it 18" from the pivot point as it says in the instruction, first make sure that it will move the tiller the same distance in both directions. (Mine had to be extended about 3 inches.) Second make sure it's moving the tiller in the correct direction. After that using it with the outboard alone. Once all this is correct try sailing with it again.
 
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JohnShannon

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Jan 4, 2010
1,037
Farr 30 San Francisco
why I was just looking into this. I acquired a boat with an ST2000 very similar pilot. Raymarine sells extension rods to allow you to set it up correctly, they come in 1" increments up to 6" long.. Naturally I need one that is 10" long so will have to kludge something. Manuals are findable on the internet just Bing it
 
centerline

centerline

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Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
you can buy the extensions and connect as many together as needed, although its not recommended to add more than a 6" extension because the long shaft can be bent so easy...
the proper initial setting would be both ends of the tiller pilot connected to its respective (and properly placed) anchor points, with the tiller centered, and the actuator rod 50% extended... this will allow it to move the tiller the same in both directions.

you can adjust the gain a bit so it reacts quicker, but even when the autopilot is adjusted to is best potential, if the boat/rigging/sails are unbalanced the auto pilot may not be able to control the boat... or if the wind or current is so strong that it is pushing the bow off point...

when the boat and rigging plan is set up properly the autopilot will have an easy job of keeping the boat on course...
 
Sumner

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
I have the 2000...



... on our S and mounted it on the laz hatch and it works well like that 90% of the time. I can get in the hatch with the tiller-pilot mounted since the hatch and tiller both swing up and like it on that side as far as controlling it where I have to quickly attach it or remove it.

I have to do that usually when coming about on a tack as it doesn't put the tiller over far enough at all times. Single handing I push the standby button, lift it off the pin on the tiller and push the tiller all the way over and then reach forward and release the main and control the genoa to get the bow to come around quickly and then set the sails and put the tiller-pilor back on the pin on the tiller and push the resume button.

I've had times like centerline mentioned where it couldn't keep up, but usually not sailing but motoring into heavier wind and waves. The bow would go up on a wave and roll off too quickly to one side for the pilot to keep up.

I finally overcame most of that...


http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/outside-29.html

... by using the connector I made that ties the tiller to the outboards tiller. Now when the tiller-pilot moves the tiller it also moves the outboard and it helps also to maintain course.

I have no experience with the 1000 unit but like the 2000 and if someone was going to be going out in challenging conditions would recommend it since it is beefier,

Sumner
====================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
 
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TortugasRoyal

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Jan 31, 2013
239
MacGregor Mac26X Trailer sailing for adventure,
I think the problem lies in your rig and not the autopilot. too much weather helm. ehhh, it should still steer.
 
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Meriachee

Meriachee

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Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
From the description it sounds like the pilot either isn't calibrated or doesn't have a good magnetic reference. Does it start moving the moment you turn it on? We had a 1000 on our Mac, and it needed to get a reference down pat before it could be used, every time it got turned on. If it didn't, it might work for a few minutes then extend or retract all the way.
 
B

Brian Buzz

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Nov 29, 2011
90
Catalina 27 0ceanside
I'm going sailing today and will try some of these suggestions. I will first run it with the outboard and if that works move on to sailing with the other ideas. Thanks for your help.
A question for Sumner, I have my auto tiller set up the same as yours on the lazarette. Do you know if the rod is the same length on the st1000 vs st2000 and do you use a rod entention on your st2000?
 
Sumner

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Brian Buzz said:
I...A question for Sumner, I have my auto tiller set up the same as yours on the lazarette. Do you know if the rod is the same length on the st1000 vs st2000 and do you use a rod entention on your st2000?
Click to expand
Sorry don't know about the differences, if any, in the two. Are the manuals or spec data online? I am not using a rod extension,

Sumner
============================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
 
walt

walt

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Jun 1, 2007
3,511
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
Also check the manual for the DC power wire gauge and wire length specs for the install. Too long of wire or gauge and its not only voltage drop but also voltage transients created by the TP motor turning on and off. My initial install violated the DC power wire spec and I would be locked in and then the TP would lose lock and drift to one side while beeping. I rewired so the DC power wire impedance to the battery is way lower than what was in the spec and I still have it infrequently lose lock but it seems to have improved things.
 
J

JCall

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May 3, 2016
66
Macgregor 26D Ceasars Creek
Walt, would shielded wire help in isolating the EMI transient voltage spikes?
 
walt

walt

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Jun 1, 2007
3,511
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
I would not think shielded wire is needed and I also dont think there is any mention of shielding in the manual for the 12V DC power wire (FYI, the manual I have says it is for both the ST1000 and ST2000). I think its more about resistance and inductance of he DC power wire. I took a picture of a page from the manual - its attached.

IMG_6751.JPG
 
J

JCall

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May 3, 2016
66
Macgregor 26D Ceasars Creek
Okay, so there is just DC power for the TP motor in the cable. I was thinking there are signal wires from a chart plotter or from a wind vane in the cable also.
 
walt

walt

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Jun 1, 2007
3,511
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
The connector has pins for Seatalk and NMEA 0183 communication and I would guess those cables do have shielding but am not sure. I think the OP has the TP set up like I do - it only is wired for DC power. I sort of wish I had a remote for it.. but probably will just keep using it as is.
 
B

Brian Buzz

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Nov 29, 2011
90
Catalina 27 0ceanside
I think I found the problem with the auto tiller. I trailer the boat every time I use it and only leave one bolt in the rudder when in the water. This is so I can raise and lower it when it comes off the trailer easily with two lines on the rudder. The tiller always had a lot of play in it because of the rudder flex caused by the one pivot bolt and that one pivot bolt is snug but not tight. In order to but the 2nd bolt in the rudder I would have to hang off the back of the boat and wrench it tight every time the boat goes on or off the trailer. So I think that the rudder needs to be tighter so that the tiller and boat react faster and the auto tiller can adjust course without trying so hard. Are there any ideas on how to tighten the rudder without hanging upside down off the transom? Thanks for your help.
 
Sumner

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
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justsomeguy

justsomeguy

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Feb 20, 2011
7,993
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
Brian Buzz said:
I think I found the problem with the auto tiller. I trailer the boat every time I use it and only leave one bolt in the rudder when in the water. This is so I can raise and lower it when it comes off the trailer easily with two lines on the rudder. The tiller always had a lot of play in it because of the rudder flex caused by the one pivot bolt and that one pivot bolt is snug but not tight. In order to but the 2nd bolt in the rudder I would have to hang off the back of the boat and wrench it tight every time the boat goes on or off the trailer.
So I think that the rudder needs to be tighter so that the tiller and boat react faster and the auto tiller can adjust course without trying so hard. Are there any ideas on how to tighten the rudder without hanging upside down off the transom? Thanks for your help.
Click to expand
Get an auto-releasing cleat for your rudder hauldown as Sumner suggested. They're great. Forget about the 2nd bolt.
Install bushings to help take the play out of your pivot bolt/rudder interface. They won't remove all the play, but they can certainly help to minimize it.
I epoxied aluminum disks into the sides of my old, wallowed-out rudder, then installed bushings with fairly tight tolerances between the pivot bolt and aluminum disks.
 
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Brian Buzz

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Nov 29, 2011
90
Catalina 27 0ceanside
I'm glad that you are using one pivot bolt too. That would have hurt me putting in and removing that other bolt. I just ordered the Clamcleat ® CL257 Auto Release Cleat for Rudders on ebay and will sung up the whole rudder tiller assembly and try the auto tiller again. Thanks
 
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walt

walt

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Jun 1, 2007
3,511
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
by the way, very good point about slop between the tiller and the rudder also causing problems. This is a servo control system where a proportional response (boat heading change) is expected from an input (rudder change) and if you have a big dead spot, the control loop may think it has made a correction and is expecting a response but nothing happens. The control loop has to deal with some of this but a big dead spot where there is no rudder angle change even though the TP moved the tiller could confuse the control lock.

There is one other common spot on the 26S for slop and that is the connection between the tiller and the tube that goes down to the rudder. I had this issue when I first got my boat and Ive seen plenty of threads on fixing that over the years so I think it must be common. If you search, you likely can find some of those threads. or start a new one.. or..
 
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