portable generators

Dec 28, 2010
462
Catalina 380 san pedro
I run my Honda 2000 about an hour a day when on the hook to keep my batteries topped off. Dragging the voltage down is not a long term good thing to do to any lead acid battery. I try to be respectful and wait until later in the morning before firing up the "noisy" generator. I place the generator on the bow and close the hatches that would allow any fumes to enter the boat. Once the batteries are at optimum charge I shut down and always make sure to minimize electrical usage as much as possible. If someone has a problem with my using my generator on a mooring I am paying for then perhaps they are in the wrong mooring field.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Kings Gambit said:
I'm "invisible" to him; but he's a nuisance to me. ... You're "enjoyment" has to stop at the beginning mine, period. Mine is not superseding anyone's; it's the other way around. No--one does not have license to come into a quiet stop and make a bunch of racket to satisfy his enjoyment at the expense of others, ...
I agree with the King on this item. My philosophy is a person can do whatever they want to- until it interferes with others being able to do the same. The Golden Rule SHOULD apply here, but like owners of barking dogs or parents of kids that run around restaurants, the owners feel theirs is a little angel and there is no problem. It is forcing ones desires onto others- plain and simple. It's a public nuisance.
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,989
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
I run my Honda 2000 about an hour a day when on the hook to keep my batteries topped off. Dragging the voltage down is not a long term good thing to do to any lead acid battery. I try to be respectful and wait until later in the morning before firing up the "noisy" generator. I place the generator on the bow and close the hatches that would allow any fumes to enter the boat. Once the batteries are at optimum charge I shut down and always make sure to minimize electrical usage as much as possible. If someone has a problem with my using my generator on a mooring I am paying for then perhaps they are in the wrong mooring field.
Well, if I was hanging on a ball in front of, behind, or beside, you, and that was your charging schedule, then I'd definitely be on the wrong one and might try to move. IMHO charging should be done late, not early. The best time for someone near me to charge is after dinner, say around 2000 to 2100, or 2100 to 2200, if only for one hr a day. The reason: 1) That's when I'm most likely to run my diesel for an hour; 2) Most cruisers are likely to be below by then so one of those "quiet", as you say, generators might not be noticed; 3) After a full day (hopefully) of solar charging, that's the time to top off the battery for the night and leave it charged up as much as possible through the night. The next morning when the sun comes up the panels take over early, etc.

To have someone fire off his portable generator at the bow of his boat say, 50 ft or less from my cockpit behind me, while I might still be having coffee, reading, or just sitting out enjoying the morning is THE PROBLEM:poke:, especially if the exhaust is wafting toward me!
 
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Jun 1, 2009
1,737
Hunter 49 toronto
The real jerks are the guys in 45 ft Carvers (or equivalent) which have about 18 feet to the top deck.
Several times now I see these guys pull into a marina, and once their main twin diesels are off, they then turn on their genset, close the sliding patio doors, crank up the airco units, and then fire up a football game on the 42" screen.
And because they are too lazy to lug their 22ov 50A power cord out and plug it in, they just have a cloud of diesel exhaust around their stern, poisoning the neighbours and folks walking by. It doesn't bother them of course, cause their patio door is closed, and they're too busy watching the game.


I run my Honda 2000 about an hour a day when on the hook to keep my batteries topped off. Dragging the voltage down is not a long term good thing to do to any lead acid battery. I try to be respectful and wait until later in the morning before firing up the "noisy" generator. I place the generator on the bow and close the hatches that would allow any fumes to enter the boat. Once the batteries are at optimum charge I shut down and always make sure to minimize electrical usage as much as possible. If someone has a problem with my using my generator on a mooring I am paying for then perhaps they are in the wrong mooring field.
he
 
Dec 28, 2010
462
Catalina 380 san pedro
I personally find it more annoying when I am out in my cockpit enjoying an after dinner beverage and enjoying the quiet of the evening to have someone fire up their generator because they want to take a shower or watch TV....so I do it in the late am and all the folks are out on their water toys buzzing around (seadoo's etc) and my generator is much less noticeable. Of course this is just my opinion
 
Dec 28, 2010
462
Catalina 380 san pedro
To the point of the original posted question, I find a Honda 2000 more than meets the needs I require for a 38 foot sailboat. It sips gas and is fairly quiet and costs so much less than if I was to have a genset installed.
 
May 24, 2004
7,129
CC 30 South Florida
It is true that Honda does not endorse its portable generators for marine use. Have spoken to various dealers and Reps and they don't know the reason but the consensus is that it is a liability issue regarding, CO poisoning, electrocution or fire. It is also a reality that Honda recognizes the popularity of their product in the boating world and has not issued warnings against the use and has not voided warranties for the use. We recognize there are inherent dangers but just as propane, if used cautiously, they can be rather safe. The incidence of boating accidents blamed on portable generators is nil. It seems boaters are well informed and more cautious than the general population. I understand sailors in some parts of the country regard generators as a nuisance but I think they are just generalizing based on the exclusive experience of their geographical area but there is another world out here where sailors and boaters have other needs. I could not have said it better than Don of S/V Illusion, "Hondas running on the transom are ubiquitous here and no one minds or even gives it a second thought. And in winter, when all the northern transients descend upon us, they are the first to turn them on."
 
Mar 10, 2015
62
Catalina 30 Moss Landing, CA
My boat is a Passage 420 2000 Hunder 42'. When I sail to Avalon from San Diego and at a buoy for a couple of nights, my house batters go way down. On my return trip, my electronics fail to come until I am about 2 hours into the return trip.

I do not have a generator. My question here is what others have done. The cost of a full-sized generator is beyond what I want to spend. This leads me to a portable. I'd like to hear from those who use them about the brand, cost, size, use, and other info.

I appreciate any help. Thanks
I've got to say that I find it pretty strange - knowing that your house bank flattens the second night at anchor - why you don't simply re-charge with your diesel/alternator once or twice daily at anchor. Not at idle speed where charging is grossly inefficient, but 1500-1800 RPM's where the alternator can pump out its full amperage.

The bizarre finding that your electronics won't come up until after two hours or so of motoring suggests either a loose alternator belt, or a worn belt slipping under the huge electrical load of one or two totally flattened 4D's or equivalent. That or an almost dead alternator...
 
Sep 24, 2013
36
looking looking Corpus Christi
You could run a 2000 watt Honda "Companion" generator while on the hook. The Companion has a 30 amp twist lock connector, so it is easy to plug it directly into your boat using a standard shore power cord. Cost is around 1200-1300 bucks. Nice quiet generator.
A 2000 watt? 12-1300 bucks? I'm going out on a limb and thinking he could fix the issues with the alt. and batteries and still have enough for a good start on a solar system.

2000 watt genny? Gotta power that microwave somehow I guess...

You have an issue with your charging system, either the batteries are weak, or the alt. is heading south or some combo of both. If you "fix" the issue by using a gen, you are sure of one thing - killing the value of your boat. Potential buyers do NOT care for bandaid fixes on a full priced boat.

Easy enough to test, grab a multimeter and check the output. Take your batteries to an auto parts store, along with the alt if you are the type to do the work yourself, and let them test them.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,667
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Look at your house battery capacity. You can reasonably expect to use about 50% before the voltage gets too low (below 11.5). If you have two 165amp 12v batteries you'll get a total house amp/hour capacity of 330 amp/hours but you can only use about 165 amp hours.
Anyone regularly taking their batteries below 12.1V, under your average house loads with a suitably sized bank for cruising, is simply murdering them. A discharge to 11.5V for most banks, while discharging at your average house rate for the bank, which should be about 10-30% of the 20 hour discharge rate, represents less than 15% SOC. If you take them to 11.5V, using a resting voltage reading, your bank capacity is closer to 3-5% at 11.5V.

Bottom line? Stop discharging when your volt meter, known to be accurate, hits 12.1V and begin recharging then. The occasional dip to 11.7V - 11.9V is okay, such as an overnight race or an overnight passage, so long as this is not a regular occurrence.

Taking the batteries to the point where the instruments won't turn on is taking them to less than 0% and battery life will be measured in weeks or months not years..
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,667
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
IMHO charging should be done late, not early.
This depends upon a lot of things such as solar, wind and what you used that day. You may not have discharged enough to make charging even worth while.


The best time for someone near me to charge is after dinner, say around 2000 to 2100, or 2100 to 2200, if only for one hr a day.
Funny that I find this one of the most obnoxious times to run anything. 8:00 pm to 10:00pm here is often the most peaceful time of day with the water becoming glass calm. Folks often sit and listen to the seals, Osprey's, Eagles etc. and sip wine and converse quietly in their cockpits. The calmness makes even "quiet" noises travel far distances. Here in Maine between 10:00am and 4:00 PM are the times when a generator will be best "accepted" as the wind is up and folks are out playing on paddle boards or swimming etc..

The reason: 1) That's when I'm most likely to run my diesel for an hour;
Here in Maine that will get you booed out of most anchorages. You would be doing exactly what you say you dislike, imposing yourself on others. Generator & noise acceptance is often locale specific..

2) Most cruisers are likely to be below by then so one of those "quiet", as you say, generators might not be noticed;
I might suggest that you could be seen to be making similar assumptions & justifications that many rude & inconsiderate generator owners do..

3) After a full day (hopefully) of solar charging, that's the time to top off the battery for the night and leave it charged up as much as possible through the night. The next morning when the sun comes up the panels take over early, etc.
Actually, from a battery charging perspective with solar, this is absolutely the worst time to use a diesel, generator or other IC engine for charging. In order to make running an IC engine worthwhile & most efficient the charger or alternator should remain in bulk for as long as possible. Bulk is just a fancy term for 100% of rated current output. This will best occur in the morning with solar. By the end of the day the bank should be at the highest point of SOC the solar can attain. Firing up an engine or genny to charge in the evening will very quickly raise terminal voltage, due to a high SOC, and the charge source will become "voltage limited" or hit absorption rapidly. Once the batteries become voltage limited the charge current begins to rapidly diminish and the very, very, very long process of absorbing the batteries begins.

Absorption charging can take as little as 3.5 hours with higher efficiency AGM batteries at a charge rate of 40% of Ah capacity, to 7+ hours with standard flooded batteries. Running a generator at high SOC, above 75%, is simply wasting fuel that is not being efficiently converted to stored energy. Running any IC motor to charge above 85% SOC, unless that motor is doing something else such as powering a watermaker or engine driven refrigeration, is simply wasteful and quite meaningless in terms of actually storing energy, if that is its sole purpose for running.

On a typical cruising boat with solar and refer, running the engine or genny in the morning, rather than evening, the IC engine and AC charger or alternator will be used as efficiently as is humanly possible. During bulk charging nearly 98% + of the charging energy will actually get stored in the battery as usable energy. In the 85% - 90% SOC range as little as 30-40% of that energy is actually being converted to stored energy. In other words 30-40% of the noise you are having your neighbor to listen to is 100% unnecessary and 100% wasted energy. As we continue to push into the 90% SOC + range Coulombic efficiency is really low, and continues to worsen, and running any IC engine, specifically for charging becomes fools gold..

Getting through "bulk" or the constant current stage of charging early in the day allows solar to actually do what it does best and that is to absorb or finish charging the batteries at low current to the highest SOC they can attain during sun up while also doing so quietly. Firing up a genny, after a day of solar charging, providing your solar actually charges the batteries, is simply being about as inefficient as it gets..

To have someone fire off his portable generator at the bow of his boat say, 50 ft or less from my cockpit behind me, while I might still be having coffee, reading, or just sitting out enjoying the morning is THE PROBLEM:poke:, especially if the exhaust is wafting toward me!
I'd much rather have a genset running in the am, preferably after 9:00 am, knowing it is actually working efficiently and doing something than hearing it run in the evening especially on a boat with solar.. Here in the AM boats are moving/leaving, kids start swimming, commercial fisherman are out etc.. In the evening it is entirely peaceful and often flat as glass calm.

Considering I have numerous world cruiser customers, who I design and install energy management systems for, who don't have generators, and who live on-board 24/7/365, and do so without a genny, the whole conversation IMHO is a frustrating one. If often comes down to the entitlement attitudes so common in America today.

The real issues with the suitcase gens are safety and non-marine compliance with regards to the floating neutral. The secondary issue is rude & entitled boaters but we can't really fix a sense of entitlement or a lack of etiquette & manners. Heck you and I both agree that suitcase gens can be obnoxious yet you believe running a motor at 2000 - 2200 hours is fine, and I find that rude and inconsiderate. Again, this is often locale specific.

A lot has to do with your locale or region. Here in Maine suitcase gens are simply not well tolerated to the point where I have seen entire anchorages stand and cheer when an entitled boater finally shuts down his noise maker. Still, even when we charter, I refuse to be obnoxious with generator use. This despite "everyone is doing it". It's funny how many boats I see sail into an anchorage and then fire up the motor or genny once they get there to "charge".. Why not suffer the noise to yourself, while sailing? It's due to an entitlement attitude. They believe they are entitled and for their sailing to be peaceful & quiet. Once they are done sailin, in peace & quiet, they then believe they are "entitled" to impact everyone around them with their generator.. (grin) Annoy yourself, or annoy 30 other people..??? Does seem a bit "entitled" to me... (shrug)

The OP has some system issues, and likely battery issues, as well as some fundamental issues in regards to understanding DC systems/batteries/energy use that need to be sorted. In order to actually help him we've not been given enough information.
 
Jun 16, 2016
9
Macgregor 26D My driveway
As someone who is intimately familiar with boat wiring (I'm in the middle of a restoration project) my advice would be to start there. Look for and repair/replace all corroded wiring, end connectors, switches, etc. Use only MARINE grade wire and equipment. Even then you will be surprised at what you find once you start looking. The positive side of the system is generally going to be the worst, with by far the most corrosion. Incorrect wiring, undersized wiring, deteriorated wiring and fixtures, all lead to your system not charging/operating properly. Before you go spending a lot of money on things you may not need, do some uninterrupted investigation first. Marine grade equipment is not cheap, but if you search the web before you buy you can find some pretty good deals. Also, don't forget to use dielectric grease at every opportunity. You'll be glad you did! And one more thing--If you are like me--write down everything! And take pictures! It will help you explain things to the guy on the other end of the phone when you start your purchases.
 
Jul 5, 2004
14
Catalina 27 Yorktown
remember also that recharging batteries that have been seriously discharged will take many hours of recharging before they return to their proper charging range, especially if recharging on engine alt alone. That means long hours of charging using the engine or being plugged into shore power so the Battery Charger will work properly. I assume you have a battery charger and that it works? If your batteries are discharged, whenever you run anything electrical it will be running off the alternator on the engine. Don't know what the output of your alt is but sometimes the alternator output can be marginal at best and less than satisfactory if engine speed is not sufficient. But more likely IMO is that your batteries have seen better years and may need to be replaced. That, or you may have bad wiring or battery connectors. There are many places along the path between alt, batteries, switches, connectors, etc where a loose or bad fitting can prevent charging or even fully charged batteries from providing power when and where it is needed. I suggest you spend a few $$s to hire a qualified Big Boat Tech to analyze your system. A little time spent with the proper tools and test equipment can be very helpful.
 
Jul 21, 2009
48
2 26s Point du chene
A lot of replies, but don't spend the money on a generator until you check out you system. Batteries are rated by amp hours, this is simply number of amps per time. Most 27 size batteries used for boats are about 155 (there is a difference in cranking amps and sustained amps - if you use the batteries to also start the engine, then you lose sustained time in battery quality)

So get your batteries tested - even if they are 155, they may not hold that very long especially if you let them go flat often. Your description of the problem I would be very surprised if those batteries are not finished. Also check to see if your generator/alternator is producing the correct amps. If it is 12 amp that means to charge a battery of 155 amp hours it would take about 13 hours from flat. NEVER LET YOUR BATTERIES GO FLAT, even once could kill it.

Take all the electronics you run and figure out the amps of each. Then calculate time on battery for what and see what your longest run on battery with the most load is. Then double that number. Get the number of batteries in amp hours for that number and you will never have a problem again and your batteries can last a decade.
 
Jul 21, 2009
48
2 26s Point du chene
I bought my boat second hand and first year when I put my hand on the mast, it felt "fuzzy" I thought it a little strange, but not so after checking the wiring and discovering whoever wired it used house lamp cord!!!
 
May 17, 2015
4
Macgregor 26X Woodridge, VA
I'm pretty new to this whole sailing thing, and have yet to even do an overnighter. When I finally do, probably "gunkholing" around the Chesapeake, I certainly don't want to cheese off any neighbors. So, I guess I'll just monkey see-monkey do it: if I can discern an engine or genset running nearby, I'll feel OK firing up my semi-decent sub-60 dB Ramsond Sinemate 2500 genset or Honda 50 outboard to top off, if not, then not. I can't imagine I'd get my panties in a knot over anyone running a Honda eu2000i genset nearby me, no matter what time of day if the sun's up--and I'm likely to be reasonably flexible on that too. Those things are truly whisper-quiet...maybe 5 dB quieter than my already respectably quiet Ramsond. Hell, you can hardly even hear a Honda 10 feet away. Then again, my Ramsond's got electric start and a 30 amp shore power style outlet and cost less than half what they're asking for similar Hondas. Otherwise, I imagine I'd generally manage OK, when quiet consideration for others is the order of the day, with my pair of 50 watt solar panels. Our power needs so far seem modest...even Spartan: a couple of fans, radio, some phone charging and lights--no icemaker or hairdriers or poodle polishers on board yet. I haven't gone to LEDs...probably won't even bother until the incandescents I have and their spares burn out...so, like, maybe never.

As for the fellow whose woes prompted this discussion, I forsee a multimeter and a fresh set of batteries in his future. He might also do well to pick himself up a copy of Don Casey's superb book, 'Sailboat Electrics Simplified', which was essential in helping me come to grips with the ratsnest of half-installed wiring, panels and doodads bequeathed to me by the previous owner of my Macgregor 26X (That's right...Don't hate me 'cause I'm fast and beautiful and beat you to the tiki bar at the marina every damn time.) You can pick up a used copy for maybe 5 bucks online.
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,989
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Funny that I find this one of the most obnoxious times to run anything. 8:00 pm to 10:00pm here is often the most peaceful time of day with the water becoming glass calm. Folks often sit and listen to the seals, Osprey's, Eagles etc. and sip wine and converse quietly in their cockpits. The calmness makes even "quiet" noises travel far distances. Here in Maine between 10:00am and 4:00 PM are the times when a generator will be best "accepted" as the wind is up and folks are out playing on paddle boards or swimming etc..

... Actually, from a battery charging perspective with solar, this is absolutely the worst time to use a diesel, generator or other IC engine for charging. In order to make running an IC engine worthwhile & most efficient the charger or alternator should remain in bulk for as long as possible. Bulk is just a fancy term for 100% of rated current output. This will best occur in the morning with solar. By the end of the day the bank should be at the highest point of SOC the solar can attain. Firing up an engine or genny to charge in the evening will very quickly raise terminal voltage, due to a high SOC, and the charge source will become "voltage limited" or hit absorption rapidly. Once the batteries become voltage limited the charge current begins to rapidly diminish and the very, very, very long process of absorbing the batteries begins.
Well, I would not wish to leave you or the others with the impression that I know too little about battery charging to pick a "practical time" to do so. Nearly 30 yr ago beginning with a smaller boat without reefer, radar, heater, weather station, windlass, cell phones, or autopilot--the conventional wisdom espoused by the "old-timers" that I adopted was "run the diesel an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening" and I'll not have to worry about dead batteries. No solar panels aboard either. I carried that routine, more or less, to the Bavaria, which has all of the power eaters mentioned above, for many years w/o any problems. Only about two yr ago (out of the 12 we've owned her) did I install solar charging, now with only a modest 170-watt system. So, I'm already a little skeptical of those who "need" portable generators solely to keep up the batteries, especially for the weekender!! That really is an absurdity. (I'm not talking about running appliances that need AC power directly.) Nevertheless, old habits die hard.

However, the trips of many days at anchor with little motoring between definitely draws down the batteries in support of those power eaters, such that the 2-hr/day routine does not appear to keep pace--thus, the solar panels. The evening diesel charge makes sense to me even if not efficient b/c that's when the admiral wishes hot (or lukewarm) water for dishes, lights are turned on, the water pump is run, etc. And even if it does not bulk charge for long, if at all, to a bank that only a couple of hours earlier was at or near SOC of between 80 and 90%, it's still putting something in to replace what was used. So, one hour a day of diesel charging is enough now (maybe more than enough!) so I gave up the morning hour BECAUSE by the time I hit the rack near 2200 nothing except the fridge, anchor light, and an LED cabin light is on; but even then I often turn the fridge off for the night.

I guess it's all personal choice and there is no sure way to avoid irritating one's neighbor if he is irritable, short of not being there at all. I too like to sit out at night; I also like to see the dawn, which I often do. :) If I were with a group of "AM chargers" I'd probably charge at the same time. But that's not really the crux of the issue I'm debating here. It's the wide proliferation of portable generators, probably unneeded, into quiet areas to the degree that they, and their users, are threatening the pristine nature of them--buzzzz. Rather like the way the motorhome users have all but wreaked large areas of once pristine beaches and mountain campsites, etc. At least with those guys you can rope off a space and make 'em stay in it. Not so for our open anchorages.
 
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May 24, 2004
7,129
CC 30 South Florida
Running a gasoline engine driven portable generator on any boat is a good way to die from carbon monoxide poisoning. I was with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission before I retired and we saw lots of deaths from running these things in close proximity to confined spaces on land. Assume the same thing would apply on a boat.
That is true, after every lasting power outage due to a storm we unfortunately have a couple of casualties from people running generators inside homes. It is also true that boaters seem to be better informed about the dangers that portable generators pose (exhaust gases, gasoline fuel, and electricity) and are more careful about operating them. I mean we run outboards with gasoline and power our boats through GFCI protected circuits and have sniffers for propane and CO alarms. I have not heard of any actual cases where boating fatalities were linked to the use of portable generators.
 
Jan 18, 2016
782
Catalina 387 Dana Point
Just a tiny example (well, the first thing google hit, and I'm lazy):
http://www.pbo.co.uk/news/warning-about-dangers-of-portable-generators-onboard-24937

10 fatalities in 25 years in the U.K. I imagine Americans are more creative with being able to off oneselves due to lack of common sense. But the google results were a bit dissapointing.

Reading through the list of incidents, they all sound like something amazingly stupid was being done.