PHII water intake valve

Discussion in 'Ask All Sailors' started by capta, Jun 24, 2017. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. capta

    capta

    Joined Jun 4, 2009
    3,090 posts, 1,153 likes
    Pearson 530
    na Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
    I read some years back in the Raritan instructions for the PHII that the water intake valve should be opened all the way when flushing. When I do this the incoming water is flowing in faster than the pump can push it out, so the bowl fills with water, mixing with the still dirty remains in the bowl.
    Would it be harmful to the PHII to only open the valve part way so there is less water flowing in?
     


  2. Ron20324

    Ron20324

    Joined Jan 22, 2008
    6,888 posts, 869 likes
    Beneteau 323
    US Annapolis MD
    Do a dry pumpout first, then the water one. I tell my crew to use the sink spigot to put water in the bowl, as it uses considerably less then pumping the creek in.
     


  3. justsomeguy

    justsomeguy

    Joined Feb 20, 2011
    6,938 posts, 1,196 likes
    Island Packet 35
    US Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
    Raritan recommends that you have the valve fully set to either "flush" or "dry", so I'm thinking that you've got a small issue with the pump mechanism.
    Parts for that thing are expensive, huh?
     


  4. capta

    capta

    Joined Jun 4, 2009
    3,090 posts, 1,153 likes
    Pearson 530
    na Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
    It's a brand new pump mechanism, less than two months old.
     


  5. Peggie Hall HeadMistress

    Peggie Hall HeadMistress

    Joined Dec 2, 1997
    7,262 posts, 762 likes
    - -
    US LIttle Rock
    That kinda makes it obvious that you didn't bother to read the installation instructions when you installed it a couple of months ago.If you had, you know that you don't have a pump issue, you need a vented loop in the intake.

    When a toilet is at or below the waterline, without a vented loop, there's nothing to prevent sea water outside the boat from seeking its own level INside the when the dry/flush valve is open. Installing one will solve your problem. It needs to be at least 6-8" above waterline at any angle of heel, not just when the boat is at rest...which on most sailboats puts it 2-3 feet above the bowl. It does NOT belong in the line between the thru-hull and the pump...it needs to be installed between the pump and the bowl--see Figure 2 on page 5 in the owners manual PH II Owner’s Manual This requires replacing the short piece of hose the mfrs use to connect 'em with hoses long enough install the loop. (See photo)

    This is true of all manual toilets... if there's no loop in the intake, the bowl floods and overflows if the wet/dry (Raritan calls it Dry/Flush) valve is left open.
     

    Attached Files:



    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
    Captain Larry-DH likes this.
  6. Peggie Hall HeadMistress

    Peggie Hall HeadMistress

    Joined Dec 2, 1997
    7,262 posts, 762 likes
    - -
    US LIttle Rock
    It all depends on what you consider "expensive." The PHII will easily provide 20+ years of reliable trouble-free service if it's just kept lubricated, gets a new joker valve every year or two, and rebuilt every 5-6 years (rebuild kits are $50-60) . A couple of times during those 20+ years it may also be necessary to replace a part or two for a cost of about $30 each. That's lot less expensive than replacing or rebuilding a Jabsco pump every year or two.
     


  7. justsomeguy

    justsomeguy

    Joined Feb 20, 2011
    6,938 posts, 1,196 likes
    Island Packet 35
    US Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
    Ayup.
    @capta , how long have you been dealing with this issue?
     


  8. capta

    capta

    Joined Jun 4, 2009
    3,090 posts, 1,153 likes
    Pearson 530
    na Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
    I did not install this toilet. I only replaced the pump. Other than this one issue it works well enough. There is never water in the bowl and it has never overflowed, no matter how rough or how much heel we have. Water does not flow into the bowl if the valve is left open.
    It is only a matter of the pump pumping in water faster than it pumps it out when the valve is open full. Therefore, I was asking if it would damage the pump to only partially open the valve to get the incoming and outgoing water moving at about the same rate.
     


  9. Peggie Hall HeadMistress

    Peggie Hall HeadMistress

    Joined Dec 2, 1997
    7,262 posts, 762 likes
    - -
    US LIttle Rock
    I don't think it'll damage the pump, but I do think you need to talk to Raritan about it, 'cuz that shouldn't happen. Go to page 7 in the owners manual for a possible cause. If that's not it, give Mac McCoy in their Ft. Lauderdale plant a call 954-525-0378. He's become my go-to tech since Vic Willman retired.

    And I still think you need a vented loop in the intake because priming the pump starts a siphon...vented loops are siphon breaks. I learned long ago that just because something hasn't ever happened yet, it's no guarantee it won't ever happen and it's hard to go wrong erring on the side of caution.

    Something just occurred to me... the problem may not be water coming IN too fast, it may not be able to go OUT fast enough. Sea water buildup in the discharge hose maybe? Partial blockage in the tank vent (assuming you're using a tank if you're still in the waters you show in your profile) creating a little bit of back pressure--too little to feel like back pressure, but enough to restrict discharge water flow?
     


    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  10. capta

    capta

    Joined Jun 4, 2009
    3,090 posts, 1,153 likes
    Pearson 530
    na Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
    Thank
    thanks for the #.
    Well, the discharge hose is 27'long! All new hose just a couple of weeks back, so it is unlikely there is any restriction. I'm sure this is a good part of the problem, but an unsolvable one, I think. There is a siphon break in that line.
     


    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  11. bobtigar

    bobtigar

    Joined Sep 29, 2008
    155 posts, 1 likes
    Morgan Out Island 33
    US Pompano Beach
    If you have a vented loop, it may be time to clean the nipple. In salt water it clogs up and fails to do what is supposed to do. Soak it in a little vinegar over night and rinse with fresh water. Bob
     


  12. Ron20324

    Ron20324

    Joined Jan 22, 2008
    6,888 posts, 869 likes
    Beneteau 323
    US Annapolis MD
    "Valve, do you refer to the wet/dry selector, or the intake thruhull?
     


  13. capta

    capta

    Joined Jun 4, 2009
    3,090 posts, 1,153 likes
    Pearson 530
    na Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
    Since we were replacing all the hoses and Y valves, we did clean the vented loop and 'nipple' as you call it, at the same time.
     


  14. capta

    capta

    Joined Jun 4, 2009
    3,090 posts, 1,153 likes
    Pearson 530
    na Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
    The 'flush/dry' valve.
     


  15. Peggie Hall HeadMistress

    Peggie Hall HeadMistress

    Joined Dec 2, 1997
    7,262 posts, 762 likes
    - -
    US LIttle Rock
    That could definitely slow down the rate of discharge flow, especially if there are bends in it. It's not unsolveable...a new thru-hull and possibly a new tank too a lot closer to the toilet. And don't tell me there isn't any place to put one. I can't begin to count the number of times I've heard that and proven it to be wrong.A big PITA to do, maybe...but not UNdoable.

    Ron, unlike the Jabsco and other compact toilets, the Raritan PHII actually has a dry/flush valve. Instead of just a little cam that a lever swings to block or allow flush water, it has a knob that turns a "barrel" inside a housing on the front of the pump ( see schematic drawings).

    PH II schematic.jpg
     


    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  16. justsomeguy

    justsomeguy

    Joined Feb 20, 2011
    6,938 posts, 1,196 likes
    Island Packet 35
    US Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
    Noticed in your schematic drawing that the joker is oriented horizontally. I think they recommend that it be installed vertically?
     


  17. Peggie Hall HeadMistress

    Peggie Hall HeadMistress

    Joined Dec 2, 1997
    7,262 posts, 762 likes
    - -
    US LIttle Rock
    I lifted that schematic off the Raritan site. so while they may recommend installing with the slit vertically oriented, it doesn't appear that they're OCD about it.
     




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