Ouick Member Query...

[rgranger]

Crazy Dave;
SML at least WAS the craziest boater Dodge City circus on the east coast when last I visited and would be the first thing anyone would point to as in need of legal remedy. But as you note it was entirely a mobo problem. I can remember standing on the deck of a lovely waterfront home and being unable to carry on a conversation with a friend because of the noise being generated by the unruffled yahoo boaters and jet skis speeding past the shoreline. The place was a living example of what happens to a scenic waterway when too many clueless boaters show up with the floating version of a muscle-car and let er rip! Then there were those certain operations renting powerboats and jets kids to credit-card captains and unleasing them upon the lake. Bad behaviors and questionable commercial Marina business practices on lakes and coastal rivers are largely to blame for so many boating laws. Some good, and many just a ham-handed attempt to solve a local problem with a law that gets applied inappropriately to all state boaters. Virginia boating law is a great example of the latter. Most of the over-reach was borne of SML. Just saying.

Yep! All true.... but SML has improved a lot in the last 5 years. State law now requires all boaters to have passed a boater safety course including the credit card captains. That has helped a lot. Also, all jet skis must be off the water 30 min. before sundown. I think speed limits on SML would be a good thing but I still see the cigar boats on occasion ripping across the water at 50+mph. RIDICULOUS for a lake with such tight turns and narrow fingers. But I still avoid the lake on a Saturday afternoon. No point in trying to pound through all the wake. It seems to only be crowded starting Friday at 6:00 PM through mid-day Sunday. The rest of the week the lake is almost empty.

 

[rgranger]

That incident @Crazy Dave Condon mentioned was the owner of Crazy Horse Marina.

http://www.smithmountaineagle.com/news/article_a3182437-5ef0-58eb-8b69-f95a39f46cfd.html


So he has been in the marine environment for a VERY long time... not a credit card captain....He was driving his cigar boat at half throttle (very fast) through a hair-pin S-curve after dark and came upon an elderly couple on a pontoon boat. Ran right over the top of them. Killed them both and their dog too. It was his third BUI. What a douche. Total disregard for any semblance of safe operation. Seems to me that the issue here can't be solved by adding an open container law. But making a BUI more serious.

Now a law that said....You get a BUI you cannot operate a boat again.... without going through some serious hoops and penalties. A law like that would actually affect the problem.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Rgranger;
I knew the original owners and even helped build that marina so it must be a different person. I thought it was another marina, not Crazy Horse.

Gunni: you are right as I was one advocating for tougher laws but many boat companies were against that as it might hurt sales. I got thrown out of one group for proposing safety at Smith Mt. Lake. It finally caught up. I remember the good old days seeing deer and an occasional bear drinking or swimming in the lake without anyone in sight.

 

[dlochner]

Dlochner; You are conflating commercial vessel law with that which applies to recreational boaters. Unless the boater is operating under a merchant mariner license.

Gunni, That was one of my thoughts too. A little more research and the definition of Vessel is pretty broad,

The word “vessel” includes every description of watercraft or other artificial contrivance used, or capable of being used, as a means of transportation on water. ( 1 U.S. Code § 3 - “Vessel” as including all means of water transportation)

My understanding of the construction of the law is that this broad term applies to everyone unless some class is specified, such as Small Passenger Vessel, Uninspected Passenger Vessel, etc. Thus the the sections of the CFR I quoted above would apply to recreational vessels. The only global exception I saw was that Federal law only applies to waterways that are governed by federal laws. Small lakes and rivers that are wholly within a states boundaries are probably not subject to the CFR but are subject to state law.

There is probably considerable case law about this whole issue, especially defining who is the operator. It is probably safe to assume that if you are the owner of the boat and on board, you would be held responsible for any action where you were drunk or sober.

 

[Kermit]

I completed the boater safety course for SML and took the certificate with me. Someone (I won't mention Crazy Dave) told me I didn't need it since my age didn't require it plus my home state doesn't require it. But I took it anyway. I felt better having it with me even though I never even saw law enforcement. SML is a beautiful lake. We brought home some great memories. (And I still have the certificate onboard.)

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Kermie, Virginia respects the law of out of state boats. Good example are trailers not required to be registered that come into Virginia or North Carolina that are hooked to vehicles owned by the same person from such a state that does not require tags on the boat trailers.

 

[capta]

Thankfully, there are no open container or BWI laws down here, other than the USVI, as far as I can tell. There are no water LEO's to speak of either, and the ones who are here concern themselves more with customs and immigration than the boating public's drinking habits.
It's so nice to be living in a culture of self responsibility. Interestingly, there also seem to be many less on water accidents and boating related fatalities, even if you include the locals.

 

[rgranger]

I completed the boater safety course for SML and took the certificate with me. Someone (I won't mention Crazy Dave) told me I didn't need it since my age didn't require it plus my home state doesn't require it. But I took it anyway. I felt better having it with me even though I never even saw law enforcement. SML is a beautiful lake. We brought home some great memories. (And I still have the certificate onboard.)

I've seen them... they are out in force on the big weekends like 4th of July, Labor Day etc. Had a good friend accidentally switch on his anchor light when he thought he was turning on his running lights and got a $200 ticket for not showing the correct lights.

I've had them pass close to my boat and scan us with binoculars... but all of the kids on my boat had PFDs so they passed us by.

Actually I'm glad they are around ... since they started showing up more, the yahoo idiots have been seen less and less.

 

[Kermit]

We had a DNR boat come very close on Lake Murray this summer. They never spoke, just came close, apparently checked the registration sticker and drove off. I would welcome DNR since my opinion is they are out there to keep us safe.

 

[Johnb]

We had a DNR boat come very close on Lake Murray this summer. They never spoke, just came close, apparently checked the registration sticker and drove off. I would welcome DNR since my opinion is they are out there to keep us safe.

Do Not Resuscitate?

 

[Calif. Ted]

The incidents cited indicate a BUI problem where "Inland" rules apply, why does that mean I have to sail 10 miles offshore without an "open container" ?

 

[Richard19068]

The incidents cited indicate a BUI problem where "Inland" rules apply, why does that mean I have to sail 10 miles offshore without an "open container" ?

Note to Californians: The proposed bill doesn't prohibit open containers, it says "a person shall not drink any alcoholic beverage while driving or operating a boat, vessel or aircraft ...."

 

[Kermit]

Do Not Resuscitate?

Sorry. I guess I just did what I hate when other people do it. Posted an acronym without what it means. Department of Natural Resources. (And nobody resuscitated her, either.)

 

[Rick D]

Note to Californians: The proposed bill doesn't prohibit open containers, it says "a person shall not drink any alcoholic beverage while driving or operating a boat, vessel or aircraft ...."

I think that is correct; as written, it only applies to drinking, not an open container. However, in discussions, it was referred to it that way. I don't know if it kicks in another portion of the vehicle code regarding that or not. Right now, I would not assume so, although smarter people than I may have thought through that. Practically, I suppose that if LE sees an open container, they could check you out.

SB 65, as introduced, Hill. Vehicles: alcohol and marijuana: penalties.
Existing law makes it an infraction to drink any alcoholic beverage while driving a motor vehicle upon any highway or on other specified lands.
This bill would instead make driving or operating a vehicle upon any highway or specified lands, or driving or operating a boat, vessel, or aircraft while drinking any alcoholic beverage, punishable as either an infraction or a misdemeanor. The bill would also make driving or operating a vehicle, boat, vessel, or aircraft while smoking or ingesting marijuana or marijuana products an offense punishable as an infraction or a misdemeanor. The bill would authorize a court to order a defendant to attend drug or alcohol education and counseling classes in addition to those penalties.
By creating new crimes, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.
The California Constitution requires the state to reimburse local agencies and school districts for certain costs mandated by the state. Statutory provisions establish procedures for making that reimbursement.
This bill would provide that no reimbursement is required by this act for a specified reason.
Digest Key
Vote: MAJORITY Appropriation: NO Fiscal Committee: YES Local Program: YES

 

[Meriachee]

Yeah.... I had a hard time explaining to my wife when I first took her to meet the family.

When did we meet your wife?

 

[Meriachee]

I'm confused. Isn't it winter in Vancouver now? And isn't Vancouver in Canada, which is in,well, Canada?
Gary, I promise you I want to come get thrown out of *something* with you before this tired old body gets too tired and old. I'm pretty sure I'll come during the summer. (Isn't summer July 8-12 in Canada?)

The Rick Mercer forcast calls for +1 on Friday. Woo hoo. What's REALLY funny is that while we were wandering around Granville Island getting poured on, it was +12 and sunny in Edmonchuk. They call it 'liquid sunshine'. Feel free to chime in anytime @Ralph Johnstone ...

 

[Meriachee]

Summer in British Columbia is the two consecutive days in which it does not rain and B.C becomes the most beautiful place on earth. And that's pretty much it for the year.

Wasn't that Monday?

 

[rgranger]

When did we meet your wife?

ah... no. You didn't read that correctly. When I was dating my wife and I first took her to meet the family.... she was stunned to see single beers for sale at the gas station check out. I had to tell her that it is only illegal to be drunk while driving, but you can drink while driving... at least that was true back in 1989. They also had drive through margarita huts.

 

[sailnewbie]

So much for a quick membe query

 

[Meriachee]

ah... no. You didn't read that correctly.

Oh yeah. We are all family. Now gimme back my dock cart.