Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama crossi

[dohcdelsol93]

Important: this is a thread to discuss what upgrades you would do to a fixed keel catalina 22 to make coastal hops and sail from florida to the bahamas. ONLY add to this thread if you have a list of items you would upgrade or suggestions on what to upgrade. This is not a thread about why you would consider this a poor boat to cruise in. So please lets keep this thread on topic. Upgrades on the catalina 22 ONLY!!!!




I picked up a Catalina 22 fin keel about a year ago for next to nothing.

This boat has sailed up and down the southern Atlantic coast more than a few times under sail by her previous owners.

She sat neglected for years, I've picked her up and plan on using this boat as my lawn ornament/sailboat specifically for my winter break vacations.

I've brought a west wind 21 back from the dead (pre-macgreggor venture 21) so now project number two gets started.

I live on a local lake so my Venture 21 is my daily jump in and sail boat but I want something more off shore capable, not across ocean capable but tow down the florida, drop in the water then sail over to the bahamas, maybe around cuba and down to Belize along with many other island locations dotting from the bahamas all the way down to the ABC's

I realize that waiting on weather here will be key....I don't need any input from anyone saying "you need a bigger boat" Yes the catalina 22 will be uncomfortable in rough seas but the best part of being on winter break is I'm not in a rush to go anywhere. I'm fine sailing around the keys for a week or 3 for a window to head to mexico's yucatan or heading up toward miami to set across for the cays. Time will be no issue here...so again...people have sailed much greater distances in much smaller vessels.


So with that out of the way, I'm new to the Catalinas. I didn't do much modification to my v21 as i did updating just to take her from pre 1970's to the 2000 and teens.

With the 22 I'm missing my rudder, someone has taken everything out of the interior that wasn't bolted down along with boom and mast head. Most standing rigging is gone.

So with this in mind I'm pretty much left with a really nice bare hull to start with. Many who take Catalina 25's off shore upgrade the mast. What other mods should be done to the 22?

i've a few areas that i want to get opinions on before I start buying parts, my time line is to have her water ready next winter.

1. Mast, upgrade to thicker walled mast or not? along with this mast step?
2. Sail inventory, I prefer hank on head sails to roller furling, less moving parts to fail, I can' carry 2 maybe 3 head sails off shore (storm, maybe two full sized jibs)
3. I consider two good main sails a must both with a 3rd deep reef installed
4. What size running rigging would you run? I'm thinking all 3/8 for off shore, maybe 5/16 for sheets for main jib and spare.
5. Standing rigging: Should i go one size bigger on the rigging, i'll be putting all new for/back stays/inner/outer stays anyway along with new turnbuckles? in the past I've made my own rigging with the Hi-Mod swagless fittings. They are really nice as they have a higher failure rating than their related size wire. I also like that you can inspect all these easily for any corrosion and add some grease to them along with loctite seasonally or as needed
6. Chainplates: upgrade or no
7. For two adults and 1 child what size water tank and waste holding tank would you suggest? A small(ish) water making system will be installed but i would like to have enough water on board to last for at least 48 hours should it go down.
8. Any upgrades to the mounting of outboard or rudder to transome?
9. motor selection. I'd like a light weight 2 cycle 7-9 hp but I really want something to enable me to push this boat in a current. I want powerful without too much weight.

happy sailing!!!

 

[anchorclanker]

Re: Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama cro

Reminds me of what John Moore said about the F7U being a pretty good plane, after a few modifications, and someone else to fly it.

But my biggest question would be, is taking a child out to sea in a boat that is clearly not designed for the conditions you could encounter, a wise decision?

 

[dohcdelsol93]

Reminds me of what John Moore said about the F7U being a pretty good plane, after a few modifications, and someone else to fly it.

But my biggest question would be, is taking a child out to sea in a boat that is clearly not designed for the conditions you could encounter, a wise decision?

this is exactly the type of post that is not needed in this thread.

 

[Stan Breaux]

Re: Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama cro

I'll try...

With regards to the hank-on vs roller furling decision -- it can be extremely difficult to go forward and change or douse a hanked-on headsail in even moderate size waves. The safety of being able to adjust a furled sail from the cockpit significantly outweighs the danger of having to go forward under difficult conditions, and while a roller furling system might fail, I think you would find the overall probablility of failure relatively low.

Don't forget to install jacklines, and make sure the 2nd adult knows how to start and run the outboard.

 

[dohcdelsol93]

Re: Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama cro

thanks, i'll definitely consider the roller, I was unaware that you could take the head sail in/out without going forward with a roller. I've never been on board a sailboat with a roller furling.

I'd like to install the same reefing system for the main that i have on my V-21, it takes maybe 3-5 min to have everything reefed and tucked nicely on the v-21 under normal conditions. It's a basic cleat/pulley system, pretty much DIY set up but for anything that I'm taking to under developed countries (or even areas of the states where a good sail shop is miles away...oh like where i live now) I'd like to keep things generic and simple.

yes, jacklines are a must

 

[txtowman]

Re: Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama cro

I have been in some brutal weather in my swing keel 22.
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Good luck.

 

[dohcdelsol93]

I have been in some brutal weather in my swing keel 22.
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Good luck.

I've also been in nasty 30-40 mph winds (gusts to 60mph) in my V21 when sandy brushed by us this past fall.

It was very wet, very bumpy but seeing 6+ knots on the GPS was trilling.


Luckily these trips will be based around a several month vacation every winter so if the weather isn't nice I just won't leave protected waters. The random thunder storm willl be impossible to out run or predict.

However in ideal conditions, 1-2ft seas, 5-10knot winds, it will be a great sail.

 

[Merlin Clark]

Re: Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama cro

I would not change out to a thicker wall mast as it would add a lot of weight aloft for little return. Upping the standing rigging by 1/16" will also add weight but I think is a reasonable trade off. Make sure the bulkheads where the chainplates anchor are good and solid and you may want to beef up the chainplates themselves.
I'd go with 3/8" line on the running rigging because it's much easier on the hand than smaller line and strong.
I second the furler. The name brand ones are tough. New or reconditioned but not one that looks like Noah might have used it on his boat. Run all halyards and rig down haul lines (non furled head sails and main) to the cockpit.
Sails will take up a lot of valuable real estate inside the boat, I’d go with a good solid main, a genny, a working jib (if no furler) and a storm trysail (orange color). A sea anchor would help if you get caught in real ugly stuff.
Make sure the rudder and fixtures are solid, I think I'd look into replacing the cast aluminum parts with stainless steel. Not a lot of room of a spare rudder and tiller but I'd try to find a place for it.
There are people that don't like lifelines, but I think they're essential for going offshore, not only will the help to keep a doused headsail on board but also a person that falls and ends up against the lifeline instead of going over the side. Taller is better. Fuel cans and such can be tied to stanchions.
Manage your space. Drinking water and food is much more important than electronic toys and systems to keep those toys working. I’d rather use the room and weight required for an extra set of batteries for a few more gallons of water.
If you don't know how to navigate without a chartplotter, learn how to at least do dead reckoning. A handheld GPS and paper charts and a couple of tools is all it takes to really navigate.
A solar panel is a good idea. Probably 2 smaller panels rather than one large so there is built in redundancy in case one breaks.
Figure out what kind of dinghy you can secure on deck or stow below.
Skip a pressurized water system. If people have to pump water they will think about it more and use less. Plan on carrying 2 gallons per person per day for drinking, cooking and washing. Get used to bathing in salt water and a quick rinse in fresh. Short hair will help with this. Don't plan on bathing every day.
Install a fresh water tank/s, low and centered in the boat. Maybe raise the sole and put a tank in the bilge or one each under the settees. Have a plan for catching rain water. Have a back up drinking water jerry jug just in case. Monitor water usage. Keep in mind you'll have to ferry water in jerry jugs by dinghy in a lot of places.
Emergency rations are a good idea. Modern MREs are actually pretty good but need to leave them for emergencies.
Fishing gear is a must. Leave spear guns at home, not allowed in many places like the Bahamas where a pole spear is ok. If you don’t like fish, get used to eating seagulls, I hear they taste like fish. Find out what the rules and regs are for the countries you want to visit.
A small solar oven that can be folded up would be handy. This can be as simple as cardboard lined with aluminum foil or built out of polished aluminum plate.
Have a good first aid kit and know how to use it. CPR and first aid training for all aboard. Speaking of all aboard, everyone should know all they need in case the skipper falls ill or worse.
Keep in mind that when you're out there, even with all the modern safety tethers like SPOT, epirb, DSC etc, you really are on your own until someone shows up after you call for help. Plan to take care of yourselves. Absolutely not taking a shot at you or anyone else here but I think more people are exposing themselves to hazardous situations because they think help is just around the corner like at home, on land, in the US. It’s not. I would take an epirb.
Lastly, I'd load everything on the boat and put it in the water. See how low it sits loaded (with crew onboard) and how it sails with all the weight.
It’s doable like the other guys say, weather permitting and with a lot of stops. A heavily loaded Catalina 22 will not take as much abuse as a bigger boat so plan accordingly. Pick up a copy of Small Craft Advisor, there is a series of articles by a couple that followed the coast down through Central America and in the last issue are in the Amazon on a Sea Pearl that they fitted a cabin on. They’re living a great adventure in a very small boat. Much smaller than yours.
Check out this blog about a Leyden designed and built (plywood and epoxy) 15' Paradox that has cruised extensively http://www.microcruising.com/lc1.htm
Have fun!!

 

[Joe]

Re: Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama cro

.

 

[Joe]

Re: Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama cro

Going across to the Bahamas is one thing, you should be able to make the hop if you plan carefully... but making a long passage offshore is a completely different challenge because your maday's may take a while to be responded to....

It has been suggested by other sailors with far more experience than myself, that hull integrity is paramount... you don't want the hull flexing and twisting so much that it separates the hull/deck seam to the point that water intrusion becomes a problem. So... come up with some ways to strengthen the hull, some additional athwartship reinforcement perhaps.

Another feature offshore boats have that may be lacking on a c22 is a bridge deck, and proper cockpit drainage. You should at the very least have a way of locking the hatch boards in place to keep water out of the cabin if you roll or get pooped...

Related to that is having a really good manual bilge pump.....one you can operate from the cockpit.... say mounted on a board that fits into the hatchboard slots.... they aren't cheap...

As far as roller furling goes......... well.... the Pardey's don't have it.... so if you're comfortable with hanked on.... spend the money on other improvements.... a life raft perhaps.

 

[Chris Patterson]

Re: Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama cro

I was thinking a dinghy. A GREAT BIG dink..

 

[agprice22]

Being from Florida, and having spent much time in the Bahamas, where my father has a home, you won't see many thunderstorms in Winter. Cold fronts will move through, and the Gulfstream can get HUGE. I lost three friends who built a catamaran, sailed it off Florida a Summer, and tried to sail it to the Bahamas one Winter. They turned back 2 times due to big seas. Lucky number three? Don't think so... They left. Their boat capsized in the Gulfstream. They were all lost. No bodies were found.

I drove a 35 ft Pacifica, twin screw, sport fishing boat to the Bahamas in Winter. Didn't even exit the inlet for three days due to big swells. When we finally departed, the Gulfstream was running over 15 ft. We plowed into it, waves breaking over the bow and washing the bridge the whole way to the Grand Bahama Bank... That's about 63 miles off Boca Raton. Once on the Bank, the waves settled down to 5 ft. However, the depth is commonly 15 ft on the bank. You have to watch for coral heads. In a trough, you can hit them. They look like big black spots in the water.

On the Eastern side, you can see the wall, where the Bank drops off into the Atlantic. Don't go there on a bad day!

Once you get on the Bank, it'll be a nice time. Take passports. Prices are high there.

Good luck.

Andrew

 

[Bilbo]

Re: Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama cro

The C22 does not have an off-shore hull design. From what I've read about the design, a following sea of 8' can swamp and roll a C-22. Nothing is impossible but one is risking lives and boat by trying this sort of passage.

 

[Ken Secor]

Which is even more reason for complete bewilderment as to how a raft went 4,300 miles across the Pacific...

Kon Tiki - the original design for C-22's :Liar:

 

[Bilbo]

Which is even more reason for complete bewilderment as to how a raft went 4,300 miles across the Pacific...
Kon Tiki - the original design for C-22's :Liar:

That boat was inspired and held buoyant by tales of island maidens.
Or Capn' Bligh's lifeboat voyage for that matter.
But just because something has been done before doesn't mean that it can be recreated without peril.

 

[Ken Secor]

Re: Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama cro

Ever walked across a street in NYC? Now that's "perilous"!

 

[dohcdelsol93]

The C22 does not have an off-shore hull design. From what I've read about the design, a following sea of 8' can swamp and roll a C-22. Nothing is impossible but one is risking lives and boat by trying this sort of passage.

why must people with nothing positive to add to this post in here?

May i request a mod to delete this nonsense?

We are not talking open ocean sailing here...we are talking about short passages across open water, many have been done on kayaks, jet skis and hobie cats.

This is an "upgrades to consider" thread not a "i'd buy a bigger boat" thread.

Yes, a Contessa 26 would be GREAT however storing or trailer launching a Contessa would be less than ideal. Especially towing from South Carolina to southern Florida.

 

[dohcdelsol93]

I would not change out to a thicker wall mast as it would add a lot of weight aloft for little return. Upping the standing rigging by 1/16" will also add weight but I think is a reasonable trade off. Make sure the bulkheads where the chainplates anchor are good and solid and you may want to beef up the chainplates themselves.
I'd go with 3/8" line on the running rigging because it's much easier on the hand than smaller line and strong.
I second the furler. The name brand ones are tough. New or reconditioned but not one that looks like Noah might have used it on his boat. Run all halyards and rig down haul lines (non furled head sails and main) to the cockpit.
Sails will take up a lot of valuable real estate inside the boat, I’d go with a good solid main, a genny, a working jib (if no furler) and a storm trysail (orange color). A sea anchor would help if you get caught in real ugly stuff.
Make sure the rudder and fixtures are solid, I think I'd look into replacing the cast aluminum parts with stainless steel. Not a lot of room of a spare rudder and tiller but I'd try to find a place for it.
There are people that don't like lifelines, but I think they're essential for going offshore, not only will the help to keep a doused headsail on board but also a person that falls and ends up against the lifeline instead of going over the side. Taller is better. Fuel cans and such can be tied to stanchions.
Manage your space. Drinking water and food is much more important than electronic toys and systems to keep those toys working. I’d rather use the room and weight required for an extra set of batteries for a few more gallons of water.
If you don't know how to navigate without a chartplotter, learn how to at least do dead reckoning. A handheld GPS and paper charts and a couple of tools is all it takes to really navigate.
A solar panel is a good idea. Probably 2 smaller panels rather than one large so there is built in redundancy in case one breaks.
Figure out what kind of dinghy you can secure on deck or stow below.
Skip a pressurized water system. If people have to pump water they will think about it more and use less. Plan on carrying 2 gallons per person per day for drinking, cooking and washing. Get used to bathing in salt water and a quick rinse in fresh. Short hair will help with this. Don't plan on bathing every day.
Install a fresh water tank/s, low and centered in the boat. Maybe raise the sole and put a tank in the bilge or one each under the settees. Have a plan for catching rain water. Have a back up drinking water jerry jug just in case. Monitor water usage. Keep in mind you'll have to ferry water in jerry jugs by dinghy in a lot of places.
Emergency rations are a good idea. Modern MREs are actually pretty good but need to leave them for emergencies.
Fishing gear is a must. Leave spear guns at home, not allowed in many places like the Bahamas where a pole spear is ok. If you don’t like fish, get used to eating seagulls, I hear they taste like fish. Find out what the rules and regs are for the countries you want to visit.
A small solar oven that can be folded up would be handy. This can be as simple as cardboard lined with aluminum foil or built out of polished aluminum plate.
Have a good first aid kit and know how to use it. CPR and first aid training for all aboard. Speaking of all aboard, everyone should know all they need in case the skipper falls ill or worse.
Keep in mind that when you're out there, even with all the modern safety tethers like SPOT, epirb, DSC etc, you really are on your own until someone shows up after you call for help. Plan to take care of yourselves. Absolutely not taking a shot at you or anyone else here but I think more people are exposing themselves to hazardous situations because they think help is just around the corner like at home, on land, in the US. It’s not. I would take an epirb.
Lastly, I'd load everything on the boat and put it in the water. See how low it sits loaded (with crew onboard) and how it sails with all the weight.
It’s doable like the other guys say, weather permitting and with a lot of stops. A heavily loaded Catalina 22 will not take as much abuse as a bigger boat so plan accordingly. Pick up a copy of Small Craft Advisor, there is a series of articles by a couple that followed the coast down through Central America and in the last issue are in the Amazon on a Sea Pearl that they fitted a cabin on. They’re living a great adventure in a very small boat. Much smaller than yours.
Check out this blog about a Leyden designed and built (plywood and epoxy) 15' Paradox that has cruised extensively http://www.microcruising.com/lc1.htm
Have fun!!

thanks for the input.

The water system i'm putting together is a DIY system, being in the small engine industry and having access to a large amount of pressure washer parts a DIY system is easy to build. It also allows me to spread the larger items around the cabin/under the cockpit a bit where it doesn't take up much room.
I also wanted to not since i'm sure it will be mentioned I'll be upgrading all lights on this boat to LED, I'm hoping two large marine deep cell batteries will get me by on this.

we will be in no rush since we have the better part of 6 months for this voyage, no since in pushing the boat or ourselves when time is no issue. If weather is not ideal for cruising....we stay!

 

[Merlin Clark]

Re: Opinions: Upgrades needed to get 22 ready for Bahama cro

That's a good plan. Kick back and wait for better/safer weather.
I've seen a lot of people get beat up trying to stick to a schedule instead of common sense.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Here's some safety info for a C22.

Also, think POWER. For the watermaker you'll need power, right? Unless you have solar, and big solar, the draw of a watermaker which relies on pressure is going to consume lots of amps. And an outboard engine will at most get you only 6 amps running flat out. Do an energy budget.

Good luck, be safe.