Old diesel fuel

[robertsapp]

1. Water entering your fuel from tank condensation is a myth. Maine Sail proved it through the definitive test:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/fuel_tankt_condensation

2. I've never understood people spending $300, $400, $500 to "polish" a hundred dollars worth of fuel. Even at $4.50 a gallon, fuel is cheap in the sense that if you just watch your usage over the season, you can probably end up the year with less than ten gallons in your tank. Drain it and give it to someone, take it to the local hazmat collection center, or do what we do here in Florida and burn it in the patio tiki torches (it really pisses off the mosquitoes). Next season, fill up with fresh fuel. If you want, you can just leave three or four gallons in the tank so you can do the occasional engine run during the off season.

3. Spend your money instead on installing an access plate in your fuel tank so that you can clean it out every three or four years. You'll make the money back on fuel filters in just a few years.

Your opinion may vary, naturally.

 

[Percy]

Off the subject, as the new owner of an '85 Hunter 31 can you tell me if you've done anything about the lack of a fuel gauge? Thanks,

Percy

 

[JamesG161]

OMG... I would be confused from all the various recommendations on an "unconstrained" question. It reminds me of the question...
"How many balls of string does it take to reach the moon?" Answer: ONE if it is long enough!

Install a Filter/Water Separator sized to allow about 3 times the maximum fuel flow for your engine. Ten micron filters are adequate. Tobacco smoke is 10 Micron in size, so smoke would be filtered out in a 10 micron filter as is water droplets. Get one that has a clear housing for visual inspection and keep a spare cartridge.

Inspect and change as needed and enjoy your cruising.

Facts:
1) Diesel floats on water.
2) Biocides work in non-toxic levels from a "clean start". If you have no growth and biocide, no need to "shock" your diesel. Add a few drops if biocide on each fuel fill, if you have a bad fueling station. Reputable stations have to serve clean fuel.
3) Diesel always has "emulsified" water, so who cares.
4) Sailing in 2 foot seas or greater on a partially filled tank will mix tank water and sludge to either burn or be filtered.
5) Most fuel lines don't suck off the tank bottom.
6) Some diesel additives are surface tension breaker to help "emulsify" water in diesel and get consumed with the diesel. No need to use if you don't have visible water in your fuel.

Some of you "guessers" take a cup of diesel in a glass jar and add a few tablespoons of water to the top and see what happens over a few week of setting. Now shake it up. Then you will understand.

Diesel fuel used to be the "waste" of refining. So a inventor named Diesel designed an engine to burn "crap" fuel. The modern engine has many refinements to help with, LMAO, gas emissions that the injectors are more sensitive to plugging. The fuel has more to do with emissions than engine design.

Filter in line. Check on the filter. Change when dirty. Have fun!
Jim...

 

[Steve Dion]

Off the subject, as the new owner of an '85 Hunter 31 can you tell me if you've done anything about the lack of a fuel gauge? Thanks,

Percy

Fill up more often?

We had a H31 and never had a guage either.

 

[jibes138]

A suggestion. I made a little board with a fuel pump, a Racor 120 filter and a switch. A few fittings and some hose. Connect the switch leads to a battery, stick the hose in the fuel tank and pump the fuel into some 5 gallon diesel jugs. Soon you have an empty tank and filtered and water separated fuel in jugs. If you have access clean out the tank. Pump the fuel back into the tank. Now the fuel has been filtered and water separated twice. Otherwise you can take the jugs and give them to a high usage person like a trucker or a diesel power boat who will burn it up in an hour or so and fill up with fresh new fuel. A pump can be bought at NAPA for about 50 bucks, the filter maybe another 50 some fittings and hose and clamps maybe 20 bucks. You can use it for years, once a year filter the fuel. In ten years it will cost you about 12 bucks a year for the pump/filter system. Works great.

 

[BobM]

Find a neighbor with oil heat. After five years I siphoned the remaining five gallons took it home and dumped it in my oil tank. I then replaced my 18 gallon tank...which at a liter per hour was way more capacity than a 30 foot coastal cruiser could hope to employ between potential fill up sites with a 12 that I can easily remove rise out and reinstall.

 

[Pacific Mariner]

opportunity

I have about 3/4 tank of diesel fuel. It’s all of five years old. Only been day-sailing so very little fuel has been used.

I've been thinking of draining it. I hear horror stories of algae growing in the tank and getting into the injector system. I put Sta-bil in it every fall so I wonder, do I drain or not? Any suggestions??

The way I see it, it'll have to be taken out in gallon jugs. Even if I do drain it, how and with what do I clean the tank?

Thx, Pelican

Polish the fuel, clean the tank, new fuel.. just go through and clean your fuel system before your stuck when you need your engine most, and it's victory at sea. I recently purchased an 86' Catalina 30 with 5-6 year old fuel. I pumped the fuel out into jerry jugs, then when it was empty, decided to pull the tank and checked it. It's not only the sludge at the bottom of the tank, but how the factory mounted the tank, as underneath the tank was heavily pitted. I decided now was time to replace it and found there was enough room to make a tank that holds an additional 5 gallons, so more range. I gave the fuel away to another larger power vessel, as they could add it and blend it with their volumes of fresh fuel. Fresh fuel is always better if the fuel is old in the marine conditions. In this case, for the amount of cost, at not a lot of volume, it eliminates any potential problems and headaches. Filter costs and hassle add up also... check your filter in your electric fuel pump also, if you have one.

 

[Maine Sail]

Find a neighbor with oil heat. After five years I siphoned the remaining five gallons took it home and dumped it in my oil tank. I then replaced my 18 gallon tank...which at a liter per hour was way more capacity than a 30 foot coastal cruiser could hope to employ between potential fill up sites with a 12 that I can easily remove rise out and reinstall.

I suck the fuel out of the tank at the end of the season and burn it in our homes boiler....Last winter was the first time in well over twenty years I left fuel in the tank but only because I was trying to capture some data on the H2Out tank vent dryer I installed..

 

[Maine Sail]

A suggestion. I made a little board with a fuel pump, a Racor 120 filter and a switch. A few fittings and some hose. Connect the switch leads to a battery, stick the hose in the fuel tank and pump the fuel into some 5 gallon diesel jugs. Soon you have an empty tank and filtered and water separated fuel in jugs. If you have access clean out the tank. Pump the fuel back into the tank. Now the fuel has been filtered and water separated twice. Otherwise you can take the jugs and give them to a high usage person like a trucker or a diesel power boat who will burn it up in an hour or so and fill up with fresh new fuel. A pump can be bought at NAPA for about 50 bucks, the filter maybe another 50 some fittings and hose and clamps maybe 20 bucks. You can use it for years, once a year filter the fuel. In ten years it will cost you about 12 bucks a year for the pump/filter system. Works great.

This is one of my portable fuel polishers /transfer pumps. Simple and inexpensive. Can be done for a lot less than the parts I have here too....

 

[Wayne6034]

My recent Fuel Problems & Solution

I have about 3/4 tank of diesel fuel. It’s all of five years old. Only been day-sailing so very little fuel has been used.

I've been thinking of draining it. I hear horror stories of algae growing in the tank and getting into the injector system. I put Sta-bil in it every fall so I wonder, do I drain or not? Any suggestions??

The way I see it, it'll have to be taken out in gallon jugs. Even if I do drain it, how and with what do I clean the tank?

Thx, Pelican

Dear friends,
A couple of weeks ago, our boat engine failed for the first time in 17 years on our 1997 Hunter 340. Fuel problem, but filters were clean. I have always kept the fuel topped off. The pickup tube stainless screen was blocked with gunk in the tank. I managed to get the boat going again by removing the fuel line from the primary Racor filter and blowing back into the tank. At first some resistance but then it cleared and I could blow into the tank. Siphoned to get fuel flowing. Connected fuel line back up and bled filter. Managed to make about 25 miles before it clogged again but we were now sailing on the home stretch and I knew what to do to get a temporary fix again which I did to get us into our marina and back into the slip. I decided that I needed to clean the tank. After thinking about this for awhile, I built a fuel polishing / pumping system on a piece of wood with a Racor 500 filter, a 25 gph electric fuel pump purchased from NAPA and switch and fuel fittings and fuel line bought from Tractor Supply, vacuum gauge bought online. I mounted everything on some scrap pieces of wood amazingly similar to another post here that I had not seen previously and used it to remove and clean most of the fuel from my tank into plastic Jerry jugs. I removed the fuel gauge sending unit from the top of the tank and pumped the fuel out from there.
I purchased a Seabuilt Access plate system. 8 inch diameter. I cut 6 inch dia. a hole in the tank and observed the sludge plugging the pickup screen. There was little evidence of water. I mopped out the remaining sludge and fuel with absorbent paper towels and cleaned and polished the inside of the tank reaching most of it but using rag on a stick for the far corners.. I took pictures which should explain the project. After the tank was clean, I reinstalled the fuel gauge sender and was able to calibrate it. Installed access plate, filled with fuel, no leaks. I ran the engine for about 1 hour for a test under load. All went fine. We were out this weekend and had quite a bit of motoring and all is fine. I returned the old fuel to the tank and added about 12 gallons of fresh fuel as well to top off the tank.
I posted my pictures of this project to Flickr at the link below and hope you can view them if interested.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/88287267@N06/sets/72157645811991415
Wayne
S/V Wind Drift h340

 

[RichH]

I have about 3/4 tank of diesel fuel. It’s all of five years old. Only been day-sailing so very little fuel has been used.

I've been thinking of draining it. I hear horror stories of algae growing in the tank and getting into the injector system. I put Sta-bil in it every fall so I wonder, do I drain or not? Any suggestions??

The way I see it, it'll have to be taken out in gallon jugs. Even if I do drain it, how and with what do I clean the tank?

Thx, Pelican

Here's a definitive test to assay if your fuel is still usable:
1. remove some fuel from your tank and place into a clear glass container - old water glass.
2. hold the container between your eyeball and STRONG white light.
3. If you denote any 'haze' in the fuel, its bad (loaded with a large amount of bioburden such as fungus such as cladosporium resinae or a bacteria such as brevundimonas aeruginosa - both common bio-species that use fuel oil as their nutrient source) and should either be recirculation polished or simply taken home and used in your house oil burner.
4. if the oil is CRYSTAL CLEAR, the probability is that the oil is still particle free (less than ~1-5µM and thus suitable for usage in a diesel engine.

Note if the Racor filters you use are 2µM --- change them immediately and replace with 10µM. The exception will be with 'some' Volvo engines that require 2µM; check your engine filter specs. if its a Volvo.

Notes on recirculation polishing:
• Recirculation polishing is only valid to KEEP a tank clean.
• Recirculation polishing is primarily used to constantly remove the small 'seed' particles upon which other particles agglomerate and 'grow' into larger and larger particles.
• Is valid for cleaning fouled fuel if and only if the cost of filters is LESS THAN the cost of simply draining and discarding the fouled oil
• Recirculation polishing WILL NOT 'clean' a tank. Mechanical scrubbing or 'steam cleaning' etc inside the tank are the only 'proven' ways to restore a tank to 'clean'. There are some chemical tank cleaners that use enzymes to break up and dissolve the thick colonies of bacteria and funguses ... but you will probably use a lot of expensive filters to remove what then breaks loose and is not 'dissolved'.
Use chemical tank cleaners for 'low levels' of tank fouling or to accomplish 'routine/seasonal maintenance' of an already CLEAN tank.

• Recirculation polishing is typically done with large surface area or 'depth-type' filters that have large 'dirt capacity' and is usually done with filter retention at 3 to 5X the desired µM rating of the typical 10µM 'workhorse' filter in the system. Recirculation filtration is done by a 'high turnover' pump system which depends on MANY 'tank turnovers' to obtain the dilution of particles in the tank by a statistical reduction process. Typical recirculation polishing flow rate of such a pump system for onboard a typical diesel engine/tank on a recreational boat is typically 3 gallons per MINUTE per 100 gallons of tank capacity. That recirculation filtering at 15-30µM is left to 'run' continuously until the fuel becomes 'crystal clear' - usually happens when the majority of particles left in the tank are at 1-3µM (oil has no haze and is crystal clear when viewed with STRONG white light, as above).
Oil that has become 'black' or 'dark' usually denotes massive amounts of 'soft and deformable' particulates at LESS THAN 1µM; 'dump it' into your home oil burner system, dont waste time and money trying to 'polish' it as these 'submicronic' particles will constantly 'agglomerate' into larger and larger and larger particles over time. "Good oil" is crystal clear.

Rx:
1. if fuel is crystal clear (via 'haze test') keep it and use it.
2. If fuel is 'dark' or cannot pass the 'haze test', remove it and burn it in a home oil burner - then, get inside the tank and CLEAN IT OUT by hand scrubbing, etc. the tank walls.
2a. Recirculation polishing a fouled tank will be of absolutely NO benefit.
3. Fuel 'stabilizers' and performance enhancing additives will not prevent FUNGUS or bacteria infections - the CHIEF CAUSE of fouled fuel. You need a 'bacteriostat' such a BIOBOR to keep the tank fungus or bacteria under control.
4. Buy your fuel only from a 'high turnover' fuel source such as a depot that caters to 'watermen' or jug it to your boat from a 'truck stop'.
5. Drain/Empty the tank for long term haul outs or lay-ups.
6. Typical diesel fuel filtration is: 30µM if tank often becomes fouled --->10µM (Racor) ---> 15-17µM (small engine mounted 'guard' filter). The 'guard' filter is ONLY there to act as a 'fuse' if the preceding filters fail or begin to extrude soft and deformable particles. Some specific Volvos specify the use 2µM filters (crazy!!!).
Typical engine filter system: 30µM (optional)--->10µM --->15-17µM (guard filter).

 

[RichH]

Selection of filters for DIY / homebuilt recirculation polishing systems:

Use INDUSTRIAL 2.5" diameter X 10" (or 9.75") long filters made of 'melt-blown' polypropylene filter media 10-20µM (nominally rated) in steel filter housing 10" (or 9.75") long with Viton gaskets. "Knife edge seals" for sealing the spun bonded filter cartridge TO the housing are preferred, for cost considerations. Such will have approx. 50-75 grams of 'dirt capacity' each. Filter cartridges will cost about $15-20 ea. from your local industrial filter supplier/distributor.
Racor-type filters dont have the 'dirt capacity' as do standard 10" 'industrial' filters .... about 20-25 grams vs. ~75 grams of 'dirt capacity' for the 'industrial'.

 

[zeehag]

and donot forget to use bio bor religiously. it works.

 

[jibes138]

Rich,
I've seen diesel filters at Tractor Supply stores that are relatively large and much less expensive than our marine versions. For a home built pumping/filtering system do you recommend these? I used a small Racor in my system only because I had it available having replaced a Racor 120 with a Racor 500 on the boat when I put in a new tank and pump.

 

[RichH]

Probably they will be suitable as these 'fuel' filters all use essentially a single world's source for the technical paper used as the filtration media.

There's lot of 'jargon' used in the filtration industry so one must be careful when comparing µM removal ratings, especially with filters being made in Asia and eastern Europe.

;-)

 

[Rasselas36]

I work at a diesel pump, injector, and turbo shop where we overhaul these components. We've found this new ultra low sulfur fuel really sucks. The older diesels seem to cope pretty well, but the newer common rail injectors start to fail fast if the fuel is not doctored up with additive. After six months we start to see internal pump parts start to gum up and stick. I'm in Indiana were we don't see many diesel boats, but the farm equipment that gets put away for the winter will most likely have issues if the fuel is not treated. I recommend Stanadyne Performance Formula. It's made by the same folks that have building the injection pumps for decades. And always keep the tank topped off to avoid condensation from raining inside the tank.

 

[Rasselas36]

I use Sea-Foam additive and have never had a problem - 13 years.

 

[Richard Bryer]

When I bought our boat in 2001, I didn't think about cleanliness of the tank. In 2006 I think it was, I decided I should check the tank. This meant cutting a hole, siphoning out all the fuel- when the boat was up on the hard. The last ~ 2 gallons that came out were so dirty they could have been out of the eaves troughs in the fall!! Black, mucky, thick sort of clumps. I figured if I had ever known that I would have never went out in waves higher that 6 inches.
Cleaned it, put a removable cover piece of Lexan on ( tank is plastic). 3 years ago I thought I should check it again so went through the process again- this time no crud. wiped the tank down and resealed the cover.
I store the winter with the tank full and add stabilizer. Never had a problem with the age of the fuel - only once, 6 years ago ran dry so some of the content has had some age.

 

[Muttondressedaslamb]

for a few dollars more

It's Sunday night, dusk. Sailing all day long, pulling back into home port of Winthrop Harbor. Sails down, engine running smoothly. Reach the mouth of harbor, engine stops. So suddenly, we check for a line on the prop, something. Crank engine, nothing. Anchor immediately. Avoid breakwater. Get a tow in to the mechanic.

It was the diesel. The storage yard had failed to remove the old and put in fresh (they had billed me for it but not done it; they did own up to it and took care of us), and it fouled the engine.

Theories about why diesel goes bad, and how long it will last in a lab go out the window at times like this, and the only thought once in port is why worry about saving thirty dollars worth of fuel on a sixty thousand dollar boat with my whole family on board?

I go two years. I use less fuel in two years than some guys do getting to the gas dock, but I don't care. Out it goes, fresh goes in, and for the cost of a quart of bottom paint life is good.

For about a year, the remains of a boat that had fetched up on the breakwater was sitting out on the grass at the yard. The deck, part of the cabintop, some lifelines. It suffered the fate we would have if we were not prepared with an anchor, etc. It served as a cautionary tale, for those who pay attention.

Well said. I take the concern over avoiding stale fuel to the next level. Being that I live in a four season climate, I never buy diesel at the fuel dock at the beginning of the season, knowing that it has been sitting the the storage tank for months. In general, I prefer to buy it at a service station, due to faster turnover. In fact, I sometimes will get it at a truck stop, where the turnover is fastest. In addition, highway fuel burns cleaner than that sold at the dock.

 

[Dan_Y]

Mainsail -
What is the model of that pump in your portable polisher and is it very noisy? I built one with a spectra premium sp1130 60gph pump and a Raycor FG500 (Raycor on pump inlet side). Works well, keeps fuel/tank clean but the pump is annoyingly loud. The pickup and return are near the tank bottom but I notice very fine bubbles swirling in the filter bowl when its running. No leaks that I can find. Do you see fine bubbles in that filter bowl?
Thanks
Dan