Just how bad is my mainsail?

[Cowpokee]

I learned shortly after I bought this boat 2 years ago that I would be replacing the sails. To buy a little time, I took the main in to a local loft to have it taken in some. I also had a Cunningham cringle added at that time. I've sailed her a lot these past two years, sometimes in stronger winds. (15-20 kts) Now that I'm paying closer attention, I notice that I can't let the boom out much past the gunwale before the sail starts riding on the spreader and shrouds. How much of a departure from normal is this? Does this indicate that I am way past the point of replacement time?

 

[justsomeguy]

Do you have/use a boom vang?

 

[Cowpokee]

Do you have/use a boom vang?

Yes, would that possibly help very much with the baggy sail?

 

[justsomeguy]

Yes, would that possibly help very much with the baggy sail?

It should, up to a certain point of bagginess, of course.

 

[Tally Ho]

Certainly pulling down the boom vang can tighten the sail.

On your spreaders, my O'Day 322 and my old Hunter 280 both have swept-back spreaders, and my sail will rest on the spreaders when I go down wind. It does limit how far I can ease the boom. Neither of my boats were particularly good at dead downwind sailing.

I think your picture shows your boat has slightly swept back spreaders too.

Greg

 

[Cowpokee]

Yes, I do have sweptback spreaders. What I am wondering is how much of a difference a new sail would give me. I would rather spend that portion of the boat fund on other improvements if new sails won't change things very much.

 

[justsomeguy]

How does the sail look going to wind?
The vertical wrinkles near the foot could indicate a somewhat shrunken boltrope in the foot.
Got an outhaul?
Need more photos of the entire set-up.

 

[Cowpokee]

How does the sail look going to wind?
The vertical wrinkles near the foot could indicate a somewhat shrunken boltrope in the foot.
Got an outhaul?
Need more photos of the entire set-up.[/QUOTE]
I have added a custom outhaul to make it easier to use when the wind picks up. I've added an adjustable backstay as well. I haven't thought about a shrunken boltrope. I intend to get out this evening after the storms pass through. I'll take more pics then.

 

[Benny17441]

It depends on who you might ask. Some would say you have a lot sail left there while others might suggest it is fried. I would say the proof is in the pudding, compare sailing performance against the average data of similar models. Is the boat showing excessive heel? Are you considering racing her? I had a boat with blown out sails and I got finally tired of the excessive heeling and being passed by similar boats as if I was standing still. I think you will know when the time comes.

 

[shemandr]

Two criteria for shape of an aging sail are the position of and amount of draft. As the sail ages the draft tends to move aft and the sail deepens. It is hard to tell from this photo how much of that has happened. If you can get a few shots of the sail from the boom up it would be helpful. You also need the edges (Luff, leech, foot) in the picture if possible. I would suggest tightening all running rigging up as if you were sailing in 12-15 Kts. for the photo. The wrinkles along the leech don't freak me out for a cruising sail maybe they could be trimmed or tuned out. The fold in the main at the end of the battens suggests tired sail cloth. The cupping of the leech also suggests tired sailcloth.
I had a Hunter with swept back spreaders and the main is going to rest against them from time to time. If you get a new sail you may want spreader patches there.
New sails = fun sailing. That's what you're doing out there, right? Every day you sail with rags you are robbing yourself of the enjoyment of good sails. You don't have to have exotic materials. A well made suit of dacron sails would transform the boat. I know money doesn't grow on trees but if you like to sail ...

 

[sailnewbie]

On my 24 I picked up a used but super crispy sail and it versus my old is night and day, old sail always on shrouds, new one I would have to really let it out to ride the shrouds also my old is like a silk sheet versus the new is like the Sunday paper also my old one would let the boom ride on top of pop top when up the new one does not, hope this helps

 

[Ward H]

New sails = fun sailing. That's what you're doing out there, right? Every day you sail with rags you are robbing yourself of the enjoyment of good sails.

Yep, even the Admiral understood that logic when I ordered a new set of sails.
Not sure that helps though. I've read, as others have posted, about swept back spreaders limiting how far out the main can go.
I day sail in the direction that works best for the wind direction so I almost never go down wind. If down wind performance is important to you, is it more important than the other upgrades you want to do?

 

[Cowpokee]

On my 24 I picked up a used but super crispy sail and it versus my old is night and day, old sail always on shrouds, new one I would have to really let it out to ride the shrouds also my old is like a silk sheet versus the new is like the Sunday paper also my old one would let the boom ride on top of pop top when up the new one does not, hope this helps

Yes, that does help Newbie. How much further past the edge of the boat can you now let the boom out?

 

[sailnewbie]

New sail to reach the same speed as old is alot less, not sure what your asking

 

[Cowpokee]

New sail to reach the same speed as old is alot less, not sure what your asking

How much further (compared to the old sail) past the side of the boat can your boom swing before the new sail starts to touch the spreaders?

 

[sailnewbie]

Sorry I was distracted while answering, I can't give an exact measurement til Saturday but Its substantial, if it's direct down wind your after you might wanna look at a spinaker

 

[Cowpokee]

Certainly pulling down the boom vang can tighten the sail.

Yes Greg, I got out yesterday and tried that. Pulling in on the vang helped quite a bit. But now look at how much droop the boom has. Isn't this excessive?

 

[Cowpokee]

Two criteria for shape of an aging sail are the position of and amount of draft. As the sail ages the draft tends to move aft and the sail deepens. It is hard to tell from this photo how much of that has happened. If you can get a few shots of the sail from the boom up it would be helpful.

I got some pics yesterday, but now realize after rereading your post I still need some more.

This is with outhaul pulled tight, backstay as tight as I dared, and boom vang full on.

 

[shemandr]

Look at the seam that traverses the sail just under the M. Starting at the luff you see that the curve of the sail is flat there. Then look at the curve at the M. Most of the curve happens in that area. I'd estimate the deepest part of the draft is more than 60% of the way from luff to leech. The draft has moved aft. It should be in the 40% area. That shot isn't great for estimating the draft but in the lower sections of the sail the depth of draft may be as high as 30%. It should be in the 10% area. The draft is too deep. And, it's trimmed to be as flat as possible. Also consider the fold at the forward end of the battens and the cupping of the leech and you've got a tired sail that will not perform going to windward and is hindering your sailing skill development and fun. This is after surgery.
We're not talking about racing here. I would guess that your boat heels more than it should especially in gusts. It may have a tendency to round up. I doubt that you can sail as close to the wind as your boat is capable. Your sail is producing more drag and less drive than it should. When you sail with a good sail, and a gust hits your boat will dip it's shoulder a bit that then accelerate as it comes up. Start developing a better relationship with your boat and make the next money you spend on sails to be on new or good used sails. Sailors don't let other sailors sail with crappy sails! Don't make us hold an intervention.

 

[Cowpokee]

Sailors don't let other sailors sail with crappy sails! Don't make us hold an intervention.[/QUOTE]
Thank you very much for that assessment Andrew. That confirms what I have been starting to suspect. Now that I have the option, should I consider a loose footed sail?