Is a Catalina 30 a good cruising boat for the Carribbean?

[yeahjohn]

JRowan. Any boat would fail if it slipped the mooring and ran aground on a reef. That was a bit of operator error and a bit of bad luck, it was not a blue water accident. Another fun thing to do is to watch the Sail Panache youtube videos. The one thing to note is a 24 day crossing is a much bigger event than taking your boat to the Caribbean. The Catalina 30 is a fine boat, sails great, and is perfect for what it is. No one would stand up and say it is better than, or greater than (insert name of your favorite blue-water boat). Tankage, comfort at sea, comfort at anchor, etc etc all come to mind. That doesn't mean you cant do a little cruising to your favorite destination in the same hemisphere. Thousands of these boats are sailed up and down the coastline in all sorts of weather and conditions. I take my family sailing in conditions I feel comfortable with, as a captain you are responsible for your crew, this doesn't change on a boat by boat basis.

 

[jrowan]

Re: Is a Catalina 30 a good cruising boat for the Carribbean

I agree that most sailors should know their limits via their experience & knowledge. That, & time constraints & demands of work, life, & family are likely what keeps most boats tied to the dock 95 % of the time. But I think its not wise, & rather fool hearty to expect a boat that was designed for lake, bay & coastal cruising to perform like a "blue water boat."
I have owned/sailed 3 different Catalinas & can state, without reservation that these boats are generally built on the light side when it comes to their hull to deck connections, overall rigging standards & systems & components are not "robust" enough to take on any ocean crossing. It is not fair to expect a boat that was not designed for ocean crossing to perform in a capacity that it was never intended. I think its really taking a big risk, which could cost the crew of Panache their lives. I think that they're coming to terms with this from their recent rudder failure. When I think of the cheap gate valves, leaky portlights, chainplates, keel cracks, mast compression post rot, etc. that C 30's are well known for, I would not be able to sleep on a 24 hour crossing. Once you're out their on your own, that just it: you're on your own. Are you willing to bet the lives of yourself & your family on 30+ year old components? Any failed cheap valve, hose or clamp can send you to the bottom in 5 minutes. I saw that someone added the windvane steering & solar panels to Panache. Bolting stuff onto a C-30 that come with cruising boats, does not a blue water cruiser make. There really is no debate over what makes a real blue water cruiser. It is a much higher standard of construction then most production boat builders can meet. A good clearing house of blue water designed boats can be found at a good web site:
http://bluewaterboats.org/
Everyone takes some risks when we sail on older boats that we can actually afford.
But I know my limits, & I know my boat's limits. Because I'm an honest sailor, who doesn't let the rose colored glasses that some put on when they romanticise cruising the world, distort reality.

 

[Bob4203]

Re: Is a Catalina 30 a good cruising boat for the Carribbean

No one is here to knock the beloved 30. After all, we are all very wise for selecting such a great vessel. Its evident however, that we all sail in varying locations and conditions. If you have the confidence in the 30 to take on the world or long passages, then I admire your fortitude and desire. Perhaps, these voyages should better be known to dispell the overall reputation of the 30 as being a coastal cruiser. I do get the impression; however, that for the majority of us, the 30 has performed admirably in being just that, a coastal cruiser.

A discreet and prudent sailor discerns between right and wrong and will always know his or her limits, which includes the correct vessel to match the conditions at hand.


Celebrating 50 years of sailing

_/)

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

One thing that I think is getting missed is the OPs plans. He wants a boat for the Caribbean. That is not a blue water voyage, that is coastal cruising. At least in my opinion and many others I have read.

So for that purpose, the Catalina 30 is a fine boat.

 

[DanM]

Re: Is a Catalina 30 a good cruising boat for the Carribbean

"Anyone who has to go up on deck to reef their main is crazy and lazy".

In my opinion, a bit dramatic there Stu.

DanM.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Reefing lines led aft

Dan,

Not in the context of the conditions prevalent around here.

I also consider it a safety issue.

Your boat, your choice.

 

[Old Skool Neil]

Stu and Dan,

For those who prefer working at the mast I believe a blue water boat can be set up with safety in mind. I built a Westsail 32 in the 80's specifically for blue water cruising. I never had the chance to actually cast off due to domestic problems but the boat has made it as far as Malaysia where she is currently for sale, now 26 years since her launching.

I prefer working at the mast for raising and dousing sails and reefing. Knowing this I tried for a safe workplace there by installing mast pulpits as seen in the attached pictures. The pathway from the cockpit to the mast had stout bulwarks and good handholds all the way plus the motion of the Westsail was much easier than the typical racer/cruiser. I had one experience on a particularly wicked Catalina crossing where I was burying the bowsprit in green seas and chose to dowse the yankee (hanked on) and reef the main. I was perfectly comfortable to and from the mast as well as working there under those conditions.

Unrelated digression but seen in the pictures
My preference for hanked on sails at the time was because furlers were still in their infancy development-wise. The saying of the day was 'sails go up and down, toilet paper goes round and round.' With the substantial improvements in design and reliability since then I'd have no problem with a furler today. In fact, my former Westsail now sports two Profurl units and I do not think anyone could argue she's not a true blue water boat.

You might also notice solid bronze lifeline stanchions.

I still like working at the mast but I'm not nearly as comfortable doing so on my C-30 as I was on the Westsail.

 

[DanM]

Re: Is a Catalina 30 a good cruising boat for the Carribbean

I don't think it's appropriate to consider all sailors without cockpit reefing "crazy and lazy" in any context, but your forum your rules.

In a attempt to keep on topic however, I spent an enjoyable evening on a mooring next to a C30 in Trellis Bay, BVI and the owner seemed to be enjoying himself just as much as we were on the B323.

DanM.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Comparisons

Just for some history, we had a C25 for 12 years before we bought our current C34. The 25 had the standard Catalina reefing: hook at the tack, horn cleat for the clew. I found that I had to reef before I left the dock if there was any chance of needing to reef. Sure, I did so when "out" a few times, but found it uncomfortable, even when hove to.

Our C34 came with double line reefing. I can reef on the run now, while not actually "on the run" because reefing is easier when heading upwind on close reach. I just drop the traveler, sometimes let out some mainsheet to luff the main, and then drop the halyard and pull in the reef lines. It's so simple, that's why I said what I did.

My boat, my choice.

There have been many discussions of reefing on this and other forums, and the preference of double line, vs. single line reefing has been done many times.

That Westsail setup is very nice, but pretty unique. On our "bouncy boats" I tend to like to stay in the cockpit.

One day just before a race the wind came up pretty heavy and unexpectedly. While all others around us were pretty much out of control and panicking to reef, we just sailed along, reefed the main and kept going.

Again, while my personal preference, as well as a recommendation to others, I believe it is a safety-first issue.

 

[Brad Woodward]

Getting back to the subject. Interesting how it can change so quickly, I was at the Catalina 30 Association web site the other day and was looking at the original Catalina 30 brochures. They were advertising it as ( The Mark 1) a "Blue Water Cruiser". I have one of the last ones built and , of course I am prejudice, but if outfitted properly would make a fine Blue Water boat. A link on this thread is about two guys, now in Polynesia, having sailed the 5000 mi Pacific crossing just fine. From what I have read you will meet so 35+kts winds and 12' seas during the voyage. Some are lucky of course but that seems to be an expected experience. On a 3-5 week crossing.

 

[Bad Obsession]

Re: Is a Catalina 30 a good cruising boat for the Carribbean

My C30 has seen 40 knots sustained and 8' steep current driven Chesapeake Bay waves at Smith Point (where the Potomac and Bay meet). I came out of it with no damage and everything was fine, after beating into it for 5 hours. I did it under engine.

Needless to say, I NEVER want to do that again.

The C30 is a very capable coastal cruiser. It can do the Bahamas. I have seen a boat that has done it a few times. I met a guy living on an O'Day 28 that was doing the Chesapeake Bay to Bahamas loop.

You can go down the ditch, do the hops in the right weather window, and go to the places that are okay with diesel and water. If water is an issue you could always put a water maker on it.

Either way, I have been happy with the way my C30 has cruised the Chesapeake Bay. Storage is tough and so is the bathroom issue being it is so small.

 

[wise4]

Re: Is a Catalina 30 a good cruising boat for the Carribbean

Here's the thing... the term coastal cruiser seems to get defined many different ways here. Some people are afraid to take their cat 30 beyond the breakwater, some want to stay within 10 miles of shore... others need to see land at all times and still others are fine as long as they can reach land within X number of hours... or be back by dusk..

All these definitions are really just how each person is defining there own comfort level.

Is the Cat 30 the best choice for an ocean crossing? of course not... Is it fine for what the OP wants? of course.... We have no problems taking ours up and down the west coast and into Mexico... And yes, we do sail for more than 24 hrs at a time... and yipes, even go out 100 miles during the Summer when storms aren't so close together... BTW - overnight sailing is a lot of fun (we hate marina hopping)

As far as trusting 30 year old rigging and equipment? That's ridiculous... we cant be the only ones who are constantly maintaining and upgrading our boat.... Hell, there's not too much left on her that was original equipment.

She's not our forever boat... In a couple years, the kids will be in college ... that'll be the right time to buy a big boat and start crossing oceans... In the mean time, we'd be so bored if we had to stay within sight of the coast in our little coastal cruiser

 

[Cayenne]

Re: Is a Catalina 30 a good cruising boat for the Carribbean

I have done the Caribbean from North to South, East to West and all the way to Maine and down to Guatemala. Any boat can do offshore if it is properly prepared. I deliver a Raider 33 from Trinidad to Onset, MA in 14 days. Only 2 of us. The boat had refrigeration and water maker. Wind generator and solar panels. The only time we ran the engine was to make water. Used 5 gallons total. I brought a J-36 from Marblehead via the coast until Hampton, VA and then an open water sail with 3 of us. The passage took 11 days including going east and cutting the corner 200 miles west of Bermuda before hitting highway 65 and reaching straight down to STX where I live. BTW I just bought a 1977 Catalina 30 that had done the crossing from FL. It has done most of the eastern Caribbean before leaving the boat at a mooring in STX where it languish and deteriorated. I paid $1.00 for her and I am in the process of restoring the boat. It will need to have reinforced chain plate mounting and throwing away the atomic 4. At one time there was 6"of water inside the boat because the hatch had been left partially open. I will eventually do the various Virgin Islands with her and even enter a few races.

 

[jrowan]

Re: Is a Catalina 30 a good cruising boat for the Carribbean

I think Neil illustrated perfectly what a real blue water boat pedigree really is.
Sure, you might be able to sail around the world in a bathtub if you want, doesn't mean that its a good idea. Its been discussed before that many lil' boats such as the 22 ft. Trekka went round the world, & Matt Rutherford's circumnavigation of the Americas via Cape Horn in a Albin Vega 27 footer. But these boats were built from traditional Scandanavian designed folk boats that were designed for Atlantic conditions. Most sailors also know that the longer waterline, full keel & heavier displacement boats are far more sea kindly in bad weather. They have a much more gently roll in heavy seas, & the "barn door" type attached rudders on the West snail might be slow, but they are damned hard to break. Although most of them would admit that their windward performance is pretty mediocre compared to a C 30's fin keel design. While I love the C 30, my point is that it does well what it was intended for. It is a good, solid family coastal cruiser.
To Cayenne: If your boat languished with 6" of water in her, then I would read up on this forum about mast compression post rot & bulkhead rot, which is likely what you have in a C 30 that has been abused like that. Be aware that '77 era C 30's also had undersized chain plates, mild steel keel bolts that rust & corrode badly, & all original plumbing & gate valves should be replaced asap. I would also replace any original standing rigging & wooden spreaders of they are still in place. Many sailors have found out through experience that a cheap boat winds up being expensive. Good luck with your refit.

 

[Old Skool Neil]

I'd add that for the average cruiser upwind performance is lower on the priority list. Voyages are usually planned off the wind. Nobody relishes bashing upwind for days. Sure, it happens but it's rarely if ever preferred.

Locally, the cruise destinations are either South (Mexico and beyond) or Hawaii. Both are downwind destinations. Boats returning from Hawaii typically sail due North to the latitude of somewhere between San Francisco and the Canadian border before turning right toward the mainland to pick up the typical wind and current for the ride home. It's 2100 NM to Hawaii, 3500 to get back home.