My dream is to eventually snowbird in the US Virgin Islands in about 5 years. I have been sailing a 1986 Catalina 22 in the summer in Narraganisett Bay (RI) for over a decade but I know that I will need a more substantial boat in the Carribbean if I want to go Island hopping. would an older Catalina 30 be a good boat for those waters?
Is a Catalina 30 a good cruising boat for the Carribbean?
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Re: Is a Catalina 30 a good cruising boat for the Carribbean
The caribbean typically has predominant Trade Winds that constantly blow at 20+kts from the NE or E and that can 'roar' for days and days on end from October through late April.
Getting TO the caribbean will involve 'beating' directly into these winds and ocean currents dead on the nose for days upon days at a time. ... unless you want to first sail to Bermuda and then beam reach 'all the way down'.
The C30 is not what many would consider an 'offshore' type of boat ... you'd probably be 'hiding' most of the time waiting for a proper weather window to 'match' the capabilities of C30.
Can it be done in a C30? ... sure it can. Id just suggest something more 'substantial', even smaller but a bit more 'stronger', for such an off-shore voyage. Safety should be of paramount concern.
The caribbean typically has predominant Trade Winds that constantly blow at 20+kts from the NE or E and that can 'roar' for days and days on end from October through late April.
Getting TO the caribbean will involve 'beating' directly into these winds and ocean currents dead on the nose for days upon days at a time. ... unless you want to first sail to Bermuda and then beam reach 'all the way down'.
The C30 is not what many would consider an 'offshore' type of boat ... you'd probably be 'hiding' most of the time waiting for a proper weather window to 'match' the capabilities of C30.
Can it be done in a C30? ... sure it can. Id just suggest something more 'substantial', even smaller but a bit more 'stronger', for such an off-shore voyage. Safety should be of paramount concern.
Re: Is a Catalina 30 a good cruising boat for the Carribbean
Another consideration is storage space, fuel and water. sure, many have circled the globe in smaller boats (Tania Aebi for one on a Contessa 26), but you really have to do your own HOMEWORK. Asking this question is a good start, but suggest more reading, both of books and on the web. Try www.cruisersforum.com, they have a section devoted to liveaboards and cruisers, as well as boat systems. There's also a great Joke thread!
Another consideration is storage space, fuel and water. sure, many have circled the globe in smaller boats (Tania Aebi for one on a Contessa 26), but you really have to do your own HOMEWORK. Asking this question is a good start, but suggest more reading, both of books and on the web. Try www.cruisersforum.com, they have a section devoted to liveaboards and cruisers, as well as boat systems. There's also a great Joke thread!
Stu,
I absolutely agree with everything you said. But there is a bit of irony there.
Tania Aebi was really unprepared, inexperienced and on a boat that was less than ideal for the journey. Yet hers is one of the most memorable of cruising stories.
Spray was a coastal fishing vessel that Slocum refit for the journey (if memory serves). Today I doubt anyone on any sailing site would recommend such a boat!
Does make you wonder...
Jim
I absolutely agree with everything you said. But there is a bit of irony there.
Tania Aebi was really unprepared, inexperienced and on a boat that was less than ideal for the journey. Yet hers is one of the most memorable of cruising stories.
Spray was a coastal fishing vessel that Slocum refit for the journey (if memory serves). Today I doubt anyone on any sailing site would recommend such a boat!
Does make you wonder...
Jim
Larry, to answer your question we sail a Catalina 30 and live aboard most weekends in the summer. Our sailing is mostly day sails.
I would take our boat down the ICW and do a hop to the Bahamas but I don't think she's the right boat for extensive island cruising unless you're going to be able to spend most of your time in marinas. Fresh water tankage is limited and you only have 18 gallons of diesel.
The Catalina 30's were really designed for coastal cruising.
I would take our boat down the ICW and do a hop to the Bahamas but I don't think she's the right boat for extensive island cruising unless you're going to be able to spend most of your time in marinas. Fresh water tankage is limited and you only have 18 gallons of diesel.
The Catalina 30's were really designed for coastal cruising.
The C30 'immersion factor' is 1" deeper for each ~900 lbs. of cargo; meaning for every ton of stores, fuel, water you put onboard the boat will be 2" deeper into the water. A boat that is much deeper into the water than its 'waterline' is going to be quite 'cranky' for sailing. The more you load 'weight' into the bow and stern is going to promote 'hobby-horsing' or pitching; so, most of your stores/cargo, etc. 'should' be stored as close to the 'mast/keel' as possible ... and that is difficult to do on a C30 because of its 'layout' configuration.Another consideration is storage space, fuel and water. sure, many have circled the globe in smaller boats (Tania Aebi for one on a Contessa 26), but you really have to do your own HOMEWORK. Asking this question is a good start, but suggest more reading, both of books and on the web. Try www.cruisersforum.com, they have a section devoted to liveaboards and cruisers, as well as boat systems. There's also a great Joke thread!
Don't listen to the Naysayers!
A Catalina 30 is fine for cruising the Caribbean. We are in the process of preparing our Catalina 310 to do exactly that. To me, the way to make a cruise like you are talking about sustainable is to find the smallest boat you would be comfortable on. That will make your budget last longer.
RichH's post on getting there assumed the offshore route. I suggest you do some searching on "the thorny path" to the Caribbean. Essentially, down the ICW, to the Bahamas and down to the Caribbean. To do this path you only have one or two sails that would require sailing greater than 20 hours.
The storage discussion is also a little overblown. You don't need to carry months of food to cruise the islands. You will never be more than a days sail to provisions. They may be more expensive than some areas. Water may be more of an issue but there are many ways to deal with that (e.g. water makers, jugs on deck, etc.).
I think it is important to find a boat you are comfortable sailing, that can hold a months worth of supplies, has a comfortable sleeping arrangement for you and a comfortable cockpit.
Good luck
Jesse
A Catalina 30 is fine for cruising the Caribbean. We are in the process of preparing our Catalina 310 to do exactly that. To me, the way to make a cruise like you are talking about sustainable is to find the smallest boat you would be comfortable on. That will make your budget last longer.
RichH's post on getting there assumed the offshore route. I suggest you do some searching on "the thorny path" to the Caribbean. Essentially, down the ICW, to the Bahamas and down to the Caribbean. To do this path you only have one or two sails that would require sailing greater than 20 hours.
The storage discussion is also a little overblown. You don't need to carry months of food to cruise the islands. You will never be more than a days sail to provisions. They may be more expensive than some areas. Water may be more of an issue but there are many ways to deal with that (e.g. water makers, jugs on deck, etc.).
I think it is important to find a boat you are comfortable sailing, that can hold a months worth of supplies, has a comfortable sleeping arrangement for you and a comfortable cockpit.
Good luck
Jesse
I have been asking myself a similar question. We plan to take 6 months sailing there with our three boys. We have an O'Day 322 that we sail on Great Lakes. I am currently researching wether to outfit this and sail it down the ICW or buy something down there a little bigger. I don't think that the 322 would have any problems down there, but it might just be too small for us.
Apart from the challenge of getting there, sometimes I think that the Caribbean is just glorified coastal sailing with easier access to rum.......
Apart from the challenge of getting there, sometimes I think that the Caribbean is just glorified coastal sailing with easier access to rum.......
All well and good but here's this mornings forecast:
AMZ117-182100-
BAHAMAS INCLUDING CAY SAL BANK-
350 AM EST MON FEB 18 2013
TODAY
NE TO E WINDS 15 TO 20 KT. SEAS 6 TO 8 FT ATLC EXPOSURES
AND 3 TO 5 FT ELSEWHERE.
TONIGHT
E WINDS 15 TO 20 KT. SEAS 6 TO 9 FT ATLC EXPOSURES AND
4 TO 6 FT ELSEWHERE.
TUE
E TO SE WINDS 15 KT. SEAS 6 TO 9 FT ATLC EXPOSURES AND 3
TO 5 FT ELSEWHERE.
.... and these are WAVE forecasts and doesnt include the 'swell' heights under the waves.
Pfft.... Is it the best boat for the job? No... Can it be made safe for the job? Yes...
When you ask a question on the internet... You're going to get Internet answers... If it's the boat you have, then make it work.
Go sailing ... The boat is much stronger than most sailors .. Go and have fun....
When you ask a question on the internet... You're going to get Internet answers... If it's the boat you have, then make it work.
Go sailing ... The boat is much stronger than most sailors .. Go and have fun....
Your point being? Sounds like a good weekend in New England. And I am pretty sure that west coast sailors would laugh at that forecast being intimidating.
You wouldn't even have to reef a Catalina 30 in those conditions.
Re: Is a Catalina 30 a good cruising boat for the Carribbean
Thank you for all the responses. As I mentioned in my post, I'm still sailing my C22 in Narragansett Bay and thinking about purchasing a larger craft that can handle and be comfortable in the Carribbean when I eventually can spend some winters there. I'm looking for the right boat for the job - Offhore cruising seems a bit beyond my capabillities at this time. Also I want to avoid "over doing" it....both monetarily and in regard to handleability. I realize there is a big difference between island hopping in the Carribean versus getting there in the first place! Suggestions on what other types of boats might be more suitable would be appreciated. Thanks again.
Thank you for all the responses. As I mentioned in my post, I'm still sailing my C22 in Narragansett Bay and thinking about purchasing a larger craft that can handle and be comfortable in the Carribbean when I eventually can spend some winters there. I'm looking for the right boat for the job - Offhore cruising seems a bit beyond my capabillities at this time. Also I want to avoid "over doing" it....both monetarily and in regard to handleability. I realize there is a big difference between island hopping in the Carribean versus getting there in the first place! Suggestions on what other types of boats might be more suitable would be appreciated. Thanks again.
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I somewhat disagree. Once over 15 knots, most Catalinas of our size and even bigger do and should reef. Although I do agree that that is fine sailing weather. However, it also depends on WHERE you are sailing. Inside a sheltered bay, not an issue. Outside on the ocean is WAY different, because, as stated, one is most usually dealing with TWO things: wind waves AND swell. And going upwind in both can be a hard slog.
Here's one of my experiences:
Just coincidentally, my son and I were out in the ocean on Tuesday, June 12, 2012. It was nice and calm in the morning and we were heading out to the Farallons, 25 miles out. About 5 or 6 miles out north of Potato Patch off Bolinas a bit after 1200, the winds very quickly built to over 25 with quickly building seas later recorded at 7 feet at 7 seconds. We agreed it wouldn't be prudent to continue, even with our 110 jib and a reefed main. We double reefed the main and it was still too much. Then we hove to. A great relief and something everyone should know. We sat and talked about our options: dropping the main, reefing the jib some (I rarely if ever do that, since we use our smaller 85% jib for the summer, but still had our 110% "wintertime" jib up on this trip).
We concluded that it would safest to drop the main completely and run back into the Bay on jib alone, so I tethered onto the shroud and went up and dropped the main. Our Batt Cars and our double line reefing from the cockpit really helped in getting the main down, since I don't think regular slugs would have let it come down by itself, as ours did that day. I had concluded that even downwind I didn't want to mess with even the double reefed mainsail up, since gybing the main in those conditions just wasn't worth it. EVER.
Anyone who has to go up on deck to reef their main is crazy and lazy. Crazy 'cuz it's a dangerous place to be and lazy because it is so simple to rig the reefing lines back to the cockpit. The picture shows the jib backwinded in the heave to. The main came all the way down to where you see it, I just had to tie it off! It was a sloppy tie, but it worked.
We then talked about how to "get out of the heave to" position, since WONDERS OF WONDERS, the boat STAYED hove to with ONLY the jib up. We concluded later that this happened because the wind was so strong that the hull of the boat and the dodger was acting like a small mainsail in balancing the boat. My son also is very good on the wheel and kept the boat in the right position. Actually I was quite amazed. Love this boat and love knowing how to heave to. Two ways to get out: gybe and have the wind start behind us and CRACK the jib wide open, or release the jib and go off on port tack downwind (see the picture). Although I often get out of a heave to by just popping the jib and leaving the main on its side, rather than resetting the jib, we decided the shock load from a popping jib wasn't worth it, so we planned the maneuver, and I slowly eased the jib down while he steered carefully, first straight and then bearing off to starboard to start our downwind run back to the Gate. It worked perfectly. We sailed for the rest of the day (1300 to 1630) under jib alone, gybing back down through Bonita Channel, across the shipping lanes, and back in through Baker Beach and the Golden Gate Bridge all the way across The Bay to Clipper Cove.
What I also found, after owning a C22 and a C25 (for 12 years) before we bought our C34, was that the C34 seemed like the Titanic: big, heavy, indestructible. After many experiences in heavier seas, we learned that it's a fine coastal cruiser or a Bahamas boat, but not really a true offshore boat. The hull doesn't flex and things stay where they should, but a continued pounding is not something I would look forward to. Solid as a rock on windy SF Bay, a tad tender on the ocean.
Larry wrote: Suggestions on what other types of boats might be more suitable would be appreciated.
Larry, that is such an open ended topic that I suggest you go to www.cruisersforum.com and read up on some of those very same questions. Lots of good reading and replies.
I would agree with Stu. You may not "have" to reef in 15 kts but doing so makes It sail so much better While teaching my wife to sail our captain aboard ( I'm smart enough not to teach the Admiral my self) had us sailing in San Diego Harbor in 15+ kts. She was getting scared as we were heeled over. We reefed both the main and the jib. The boat sailed almost upright and actually went faster. I have a 1986 C30.
It does have only 48 gal of water but a water maker can easily fit in it to fix that problem. It has room for a second fuel tank too. But cans on deck may be better. Weighing it down too much may be a problem but they are strong. Most cruisers will wait out 25+ kt , 10 ft swells as, hey they are cruisers on sail boats and by definition aren't on a schedule or in a hurry.
Well, I think stu's story confirms what I said. Island hopping round the Caribbean is much closer to Great Lake, or "great bay" sailing than it is anything like "offshore sailing". For the Caribbean, or great bays/lakes, I think a production coastal cruiser is fine if well outfitted. Beyond that, I wouldn't trust my family to anything less than a proper "blue water" cruiser with a full keel.
Re: Is a Catalina 30 a good cruising boat for the Carribbean
Over 7000 Catalina 30 hulls have been produced so you have to wonder if any of the owners have tried an ocean crossing, rounded the Cape or set out in the roaring 40's! Nuts, if you ask me.
I had my first ocean test of the Catalina 30 when a buddy of mine and I took his dad's 1983 model out from Pensacola to Destin, Florida. The seas were running about 5-6 feet and the breeze was fresh around 15+. We were about 5 miles offshore and all I could remember is that bow slamming into the swell and resonating like an egg about to crack open. That's when I realize how light and thin the 30 was. Granted she drove well and we got to our destination just fine, but that experience of having to wonder if this vessel was going to crack open left a mark. How would she react in real open ocean conditions (rough seas)?
Years before we chartered a Morgan 41 Out Island out of Fort Lauderdale and sailed throughout the Bahamas, even shirting hurricane Bob. The 41 has a bad reputation for slow speed to windward but her weight and strength was a confidence builder. What a strong ship she was.
I am not comparing apples to oranges here, as the real mark of the sailor is the amount of scrot he will apply to the endeavor. Anyone with the right amount of courage can take a West Wight Potter around the world, but for me and the years I have sailed, venturing far off shore in a Catalina 30 would bring me far less comfort and confidence then say a Cape Dory, Island Packet, etc, etc, etc. I own a 1988 Catalina 30 Mark II and she is splendid on the lake and certainly will be the right boat for coastal cruising; however, my wife and I say NO to extended cruising offshore in her. To me besides her wonderful large interior, ease of handling from the cockpit, etc, the 30 is just too light and tender.
I do admire you though for your working on making your dream come true. Please, do not forget the drogue sea anchor if your taking on the big one.
My 2-cents
Bob
'88 Cat 30 Mark II
Over 7000 Catalina 30 hulls have been produced so you have to wonder if any of the owners have tried an ocean crossing, rounded the Cape or set out in the roaring 40's! Nuts, if you ask me.
I had my first ocean test of the Catalina 30 when a buddy of mine and I took his dad's 1983 model out from Pensacola to Destin, Florida. The seas were running about 5-6 feet and the breeze was fresh around 15+. We were about 5 miles offshore and all I could remember is that bow slamming into the swell and resonating like an egg about to crack open. That's when I realize how light and thin the 30 was. Granted she drove well and we got to our destination just fine, but that experience of having to wonder if this vessel was going to crack open left a mark. How would she react in real open ocean conditions (rough seas)?
Years before we chartered a Morgan 41 Out Island out of Fort Lauderdale and sailed throughout the Bahamas, even shirting hurricane Bob. The 41 has a bad reputation for slow speed to windward but her weight and strength was a confidence builder. What a strong ship she was.
I am not comparing apples to oranges here, as the real mark of the sailor is the amount of scrot he will apply to the endeavor. Anyone with the right amount of courage can take a West Wight Potter around the world, but for me and the years I have sailed, venturing far off shore in a Catalina 30 would bring me far less comfort and confidence then say a Cape Dory, Island Packet, etc, etc, etc. I own a 1988 Catalina 30 Mark II and she is splendid on the lake and certainly will be the right boat for coastal cruising; however, my wife and I say NO to extended cruising offshore in her. To me besides her wonderful large interior, ease of handling from the cockpit, etc, the 30 is just too light and tender.
I do admire you though for your working on making your dream come true. Please, do not forget the drogue sea anchor if your taking on the big one.
My 2-cents
Bob
'88 Cat 30 Mark II
http://sailpanache.com/
Eat your hearts out. The hull even survived on the reef, mr thin hull poster. Sail. Sail some more. Learn. Sail more. The only thing that is keeping you from doing anything is yourself. I have read so much about people prepping their Westsails for years and never making it out of the harbor, only to force them to sell their dreams away.
We sail in 15knts with open ocean swell every day, on our cat 30. Over 15knts we go to jib, over 20 knts we reef main. The boat sails great and I have never worried about the boat construction. In San Fransisco bay they sail in much heavier conditions. Hundreds of sailors each year make the journey your looking to do in much less capable craft and you are in a much traveled water way. It is more important to have the proper equipment for if something does go wrong, stuff can go wrong aboard any boat.
Eat your hearts out. The hull even survived on the reef, mr thin hull poster. Sail. Sail some more. Learn. Sail more. The only thing that is keeping you from doing anything is yourself. I have read so much about people prepping their Westsails for years and never making it out of the harbor, only to force them to sell their dreams away.
We sail in 15knts with open ocean swell every day, on our cat 30. Over 15knts we go to jib, over 20 knts we reef main. The boat sails great and I have never worried about the boat construction. In San Fransisco bay they sail in much heavier conditions. Hundreds of sailors each year make the journey your looking to do in much less capable craft and you are in a much traveled water way. It is more important to have the proper equipment for if something does go wrong, stuff can go wrong aboard any boat.
Lol... 5 to 6 and 15knots isn't even a big deal when my kids take the boat out.... And honestly, 5 miles is the bare minimum to get out of the confused shore chop.... I often wonder if anyone in the forums ever take their boat out of the bay... Let alone sail over 50 miles offshore....
I'm so glad we don't have a bay to sail in.... For us, it's a couple minutes and we're in the pacific...
I'm so glad we don't have a bay to sail in.... For us, it's a couple minutes and we're in the pacific...
Well that's an interesting website but I'm not sure if that's really an endorsement of the C 30 as an offshore boat. Seems like that's another example of why a C 30 is questionable as an offshore yacht. While I love my C 30, I don't think its wise to push a obvious coastal cruiser past the limits of what it was designed for.
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