Hello all, Its Spring again and talk turns to warm weather, sailing and crack repair. I would like to see the answers of those who have had and have not had cracks to the following questions. I will provide my own anserws at the end of the post Q1. Has your hull ever cracked? Q2. Has anyone had cracks and has their boat stored in an area which does not freeze (either warm winters or inside heated storage)? Q3. Has anyone had cracks and their boat boat is stored in an area which does freeze, but the boat was enclosed in an unheated enclosure (a garage or buiding, but not including a tarp or cover)? Q4. Has anyone had cracks, reagardless of temperature, when your boat is stored in an enclosure (not including a tarp or cover?) In my little frozen winter world (Wisconsin), the only time my hull had cracked was last winter, a year ago, when I stored my boat outside. I did not cover it. It also cracked in a very weird location, on the top and starboard side of the "hump" that the rudder attaches to. The crack started at the screw holes and ran forward around the hump 6 inches. Pretty easy fix and after the procedure, invisible. Obviously, the boat is back under cover this past winter. Bottom line, the hull is cracking from stress induced from expansion and contraction, but I am really interested if the slow infrequent warming and cooling (air temperature) has as much effect as the rapid and frequent warming and cooling induced by the sun. My guess is the later. Let's see what is happening to others. Interesting to note, many fiberglass boats have all the screw holes and penetrations chamfered to reducs or eliminate chances of cracking. I don't know if that will work on this product. Let's see how storage practices, temperature and cracking are related. Rusty
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Storage Practices
Hi Rusty, Here is my info. I hope it is helpful. I have stored my 2005 for two southern Michigan Winters now and I am happy to say, no cracks. I have stored the boat two different ways, and I am careful when I store it because I am mindful of damage. Hopefully, my methods are paying off and this is not just dumb luck. 2005-2006 Winter: Stored outside, next to my garage. Mild Winter, 20 - 40 degrees. Several snows but none stuck around for more than a week. ALL rigging removed from boat except for that which was screwed down. ALL attachments to the trailer removed so as not to induce any stress on the hull from straps or ties. Mast and rigging stored in the garage away from the boat. Boat was stored beside the garage on the west side. There is not much sun here in the Winter, but on sunny days, the boat and trailer probably saw only an hour or so of it. The trailer was set up so that any water that might happen to find its way under the tarp drained rapidly toward the aft. 2" black pipe was suspended 2 feet above the boat to make a "tent" over the boat. This allows air flow through the front and back of the tent even though I tied the ends of the tarp together at the grommets to minimize rain/snow from being blown in. The tarp used was a 15' x 20' 17-OZ treated Canvas. Beige in color so that if sun did shine on it, it would not create the heating effect that a dark tarp would create. The edges of the tarp were fastened to the trailer frame, not the boat, to preven stress on the hull. 2006-2007 Winter: Stored in a shed, unheated. Cold winter, few sunny days, temperature in the singles and teens. Plenty of lake effect snow. ALL rigging removed and stored in the garage. ALL attachments to the trailer removed. No tarp used.
Hi Rusty, Here is my info. I hope it is helpful. I have stored my 2005 for two southern Michigan Winters now and I am happy to say, no cracks. I have stored the boat two different ways, and I am careful when I store it because I am mindful of damage. Hopefully, my methods are paying off and this is not just dumb luck. 2005-2006 Winter: Stored outside, next to my garage. Mild Winter, 20 - 40 degrees. Several snows but none stuck around for more than a week. ALL rigging removed from boat except for that which was screwed down. ALL attachments to the trailer removed so as not to induce any stress on the hull from straps or ties. Mast and rigging stored in the garage away from the boat. Boat was stored beside the garage on the west side. There is not much sun here in the Winter, but on sunny days, the boat and trailer probably saw only an hour or so of it. The trailer was set up so that any water that might happen to find its way under the tarp drained rapidly toward the aft. 2" black pipe was suspended 2 feet above the boat to make a "tent" over the boat. This allows air flow through the front and back of the tent even though I tied the ends of the tarp together at the grommets to minimize rain/snow from being blown in. The tarp used was a 15' x 20' 17-OZ treated Canvas. Beige in color so that if sun did shine on it, it would not create the heating effect that a dark tarp would create. The edges of the tarp were fastened to the trailer frame, not the boat, to preven stress on the hull. 2006-2007 Winter: Stored in a shed, unheated. Cold winter, few sunny days, temperature in the singles and teens. Plenty of lake effect snow. ALL rigging removed and stored in the garage. ALL attachments to the trailer removed. No tarp used.
My storage technique
So far, no cracks!! But I haven't looked closely yet this season (still SNOWING here and cold!! Lake level hasn't risen yet either.
My storage technique is virtually identical to Jeff's outdoor storage. I used a cable that I threaded through an old garden hose, strung high above the boat, to eliminate sagging, and throw a tarp over the cable, bungeeing it in place either to the trailer or to itself under the hull. It is under tall hemlocks, so never gets any direct sun - only filtered winter sun. Cold Connecticut winters. Plenty of snow. Only one particularly bad snowstorm with heavy snow and frozen rain caused sagging, soo I had to go brush that off the tarp. Most important thing would be to make sure you don't get water or snow building up and causing sags. Also key to have that air circulation, and tilt so any water will drain. This is the 2nd winter of storage.
So far, no cracks!! But I haven't looked closely yet this season (still SNOWING here and cold!! Lake level hasn't risen yet either.
My storage technique is virtually identical to Jeff's outdoor storage. I used a cable that I threaded through an old garden hose, strung high above the boat, to eliminate sagging, and throw a tarp over the cable, bungeeing it in place either to the trailer or to itself under the hull. It is under tall hemlocks, so never gets any direct sun - only filtered winter sun. Cold Connecticut winters. Plenty of snow. Only one particularly bad snowstorm with heavy snow and frozen rain caused sagging, soo I had to go brush that off the tarp. Most important thing would be to make sure you don't get water or snow building up and causing sags. Also key to have that air circulation, and tilt so any water will drain. This is the 2nd winter of storage.
Stored Inside
Rusty, I was hoping to see more feedback from others on this thread. I'm curious what the analysis of the responses might indicate. I can thankfully say my 170 has never had any cracks. I store mine inside my shop each winter here in Ohio. It's stored on the unheated side of my shop. Insulated, but I don't heat it. So the temp is some degrees above outside most of the time. At least the temp doesn't change rapidly. I leave the drain plug in the back open. I do the normal cleaning and waxing before putting it away for the winter. I release all the straps so there's no tension. I cover it in a sheet of plastic, open at each end, to keep the dirt/dust off. Other than that, it is ready to splash. I hope you get some more responses Rusty. JerryA
Rusty, I was hoping to see more feedback from others on this thread. I'm curious what the analysis of the responses might indicate. I can thankfully say my 170 has never had any cracks. I store mine inside my shop each winter here in Ohio. It's stored on the unheated side of my shop. Insulated, but I don't heat it. So the temp is some degrees above outside most of the time. At least the temp doesn't change rapidly. I leave the drain plug in the back open. I do the normal cleaning and waxing before putting it away for the winter. I release all the straps so there's no tension. I cover it in a sheet of plastic, open at each end, to keep the dirt/dust off. Other than that, it is ready to splash. I hope you get some more responses Rusty. JerryA
Rusty... Another Thought
From what I recall, crack complaints mention cracks radiating out from under attached fixtures. You mention chamfered fastener holes in fiberglass boats. I wonder if the manufacturing process at Hunter requires pre-drilling the Luran or not. Sure would be faster to just place the hardware and drive the screw home. I would guess that if no pre-drilling is done, or if some type of power punch is used to make a starter hole, the initial fracture might occur when the boat is made. Over time, cracks might radiate from the inital tiny fracture. Question for readers: are all cracks originating from fastener holes??? If yes, might be prudent to remove ALL hardware for inspection and take action to prevent further cracking if any are found. Your thoughts?
From what I recall, crack complaints mention cracks radiating out from under attached fixtures. You mention chamfered fastener holes in fiberglass boats. I wonder if the manufacturing process at Hunter requires pre-drilling the Luran or not. Sure would be faster to just place the hardware and drive the screw home. I would guess that if no pre-drilling is done, or if some type of power punch is used to make a starter hole, the initial fracture might occur when the boat is made. Over time, cracks might radiate from the inital tiny fracture. Question for readers: are all cracks originating from fastener holes??? If yes, might be prudent to remove ALL hardware for inspection and take action to prevent further cracking if any are found. Your thoughts?
Good Question
Joe, Good question. Hopefully we hear from others. I really want to hear from some who live in an area which never, or rarely freezes. As my boat only cracked the one year that I left it outside, it is now back in a unheated shed. The year that it was outside, it was wide open with no shade from anything. Pretty much exposed, without a cover. I have taken a very quick peak at it and it looks like it is OK this year. Snowed again last week... no sailing for a while I guess. I am convinced that the cracking is due to very rapid expansion/contraction from the sun, and this stress cracks the hull at a point weakened by a penetration at a point which is already stressed because a screw is stuck into a very tight hole... Your question of predrilling pretty much is in line with my thoughts. I guess that it could be argues that if that is the case why does it not do the same thing in the summer, but I would also argue that cold material is much more brittle than warm. I really do not think that the cracking has anything to do with additional loading stresses put onto the various rigging points, including the mast step. My opinion only. We'll see. You have asked a good question. Maybe the first thing to do would be to remove all screws, drill and reinstall? A lot of work but it would save a lot of additional work down the road... Rusty
Joe, Good question. Hopefully we hear from others. I really want to hear from some who live in an area which never, or rarely freezes. As my boat only cracked the one year that I left it outside, it is now back in a unheated shed. The year that it was outside, it was wide open with no shade from anything. Pretty much exposed, without a cover. I have taken a very quick peak at it and it looks like it is OK this year. Snowed again last week... no sailing for a while I guess. I am convinced that the cracking is due to very rapid expansion/contraction from the sun, and this stress cracks the hull at a point weakened by a penetration at a point which is already stressed because a screw is stuck into a very tight hole... Your question of predrilling pretty much is in line with my thoughts. I guess that it could be argues that if that is the case why does it not do the same thing in the summer, but I would also argue that cold material is much more brittle than warm. I really do not think that the cracking has anything to do with additional loading stresses put onto the various rigging points, including the mast step. My opinion only. We'll see. You have asked a good question. Maybe the first thing to do would be to remove all screws, drill and reinstall? A lot of work but it would save a lot of additional work down the road... Rusty
One More Thing
Unless someone posts otherwise, cracks MUST be coming from the screw holes that you suspect. Note the deflection in the Luran at the Bow Eye, Cleats etc. If there was a material problem, I'd think cracks would develop from these 'stress' areas. I would bet it's most likely a process problem. Not implying anything intentional, just attempting to identify the root cause.
Unless someone posts otherwise, cracks MUST be coming from the screw holes that you suspect. Note the deflection in the Luran at the Bow Eye, Cleats etc. If there was a material problem, I'd think cracks would develop from these 'stress' areas. I would bet it's most likely a process problem. Not implying anything intentional, just attempting to identify the root cause.
Prevention!
Joe, I agree that this in not intentional but I sure bet that a prudent owner could prevent their hull from cracking IF they knew what was causing the issue. I love the boat and would buy one again in a heart beat. If price was not an issue I would buy a Nomad, but they were not available yet when I bought my 170 and I cannot see paying $15,000 today to pick one up. With that being said, you are right, identify the root cause and take corrective measures from there. A lot easier than fixing cracks every year.
Joe, I agree that this in not intentional but I sure bet that a prudent owner could prevent their hull from cracking IF they knew what was causing the issue. I love the boat and would buy one again in a heart beat. If price was not an issue I would buy a Nomad, but they were not available yet when I bought my 170 and I cannot see paying $15,000 today to pick one up. With that being said, you are right, identify the root cause and take corrective measures from there. A lot easier than fixing cracks every year.
Additional comment
Additional Comment about cracking... To me it appears to be these cracks are all at rounded stress points in the hull... where there might be some expansion / contraction due to temp levels. What ever the reason the result is very disturbing and disappointing to say the least.
Additional Comment about cracking... To me it appears to be these cracks are all at rounded stress points in the hull... where there might be some expansion / contraction due to temp levels. What ever the reason the result is very disturbing and disappointing to say the least.
Not Good
Ken, Looking at your pic is making me sick! Although no problems yet with my 170, very disturbing! There's lots of info on repair in the 'Archives'. Be sure to include the '170' in your search criteria for the most results. With reasonable care these boats just simply should not crack like this. I'm not a big lawyer person but if any readers are a practicing attorney, what are your thoughts? Hunter should not turn their backs on their customers. As much as I enjoy my 170, starting to consider selling it while still in one piece for something that isn't so prone to failure. I did send in my registration as I'm sure most owners have. Hunter could contact owners regarding this failure if they wanted to. To date Hunter has been completely silent in every way about this issue. A Product Advisory or similar would sure be appreciated. It would be hard to believe Hunter: 1) Is unaware of the problem 2) Does not know why this is happening How about sharing this info with your customers Hunter??? You tout the great features of the material these boats are made of. Walk the Talk.
Ken, Looking at your pic is making me sick! Although no problems yet with my 170, very disturbing! There's lots of info on repair in the 'Archives'. Be sure to include the '170' in your search criteria for the most results. With reasonable care these boats just simply should not crack like this. I'm not a big lawyer person but if any readers are a practicing attorney, what are your thoughts? Hunter should not turn their backs on their customers. As much as I enjoy my 170, starting to consider selling it while still in one piece for something that isn't so prone to failure. I did send in my registration as I'm sure most owners have. Hunter could contact owners regarding this failure if they wanted to. To date Hunter has been completely silent in every way about this issue. A Product Advisory or similar would sure be appreciated. It would be hard to believe Hunter: 1) Is unaware of the problem 2) Does not know why this is happening How about sharing this info with your customers Hunter??? You tout the great features of the material these boats are made of. Walk the Talk.
Ken, Check your e-mail
Ken, I dropped you an e-mail at the address that you had presented above. A few resources for the repair. Rusty
Ken, I dropped you an e-mail at the address that you had presented above. A few resources for the repair. Rusty
Cracks - minor but still cracked
I lived in Corpus Christi Texas for 3 years, which is when I bought my '97 170 in 2005. I bought it with a few cracks in the storage area and one by the centerboard. (BTW, I drilled small holes (not all the way through) on the ends of the cracks and it did stop them from continuing further). But mysteriously over the 2006 summer, I started getting multiple cracks (vertical) along the starboard gunwale...I would say between 10-15 cracks. I have since moved back to Charleston SC with the boat and just uncovered it for cleaning, waxing, etc and discovered some more vertical cracks on the port gunwale. I will take some pictures and attempt to post in the next few days. Anyone know if this will affect the performance, as the cracks are about 2 feet aft of the shrouds. Can anyone direct me to the area to cosmetically fix these?
I lived in Corpus Christi Texas for 3 years, which is when I bought my '97 170 in 2005. I bought it with a few cracks in the storage area and one by the centerboard. (BTW, I drilled small holes (not all the way through) on the ends of the cracks and it did stop them from continuing further). But mysteriously over the 2006 summer, I started getting multiple cracks (vertical) along the starboard gunwale...I would say between 10-15 cracks. I have since moved back to Charleston SC with the boat and just uncovered it for cleaning, waxing, etc and discovered some more vertical cracks on the port gunwale. I will take some pictures and attempt to post in the next few days. Anyone know if this will affect the performance, as the cracks are about 2 feet aft of the shrouds. Can anyone direct me to the area to cosmetically fix these?
ACP Repair
A link to a repair page follows. Once you link to that page, ensure that you scroll all the way to the bottom for a PDF entitled "Here is a PDF on ACP..." That should do it. Good luck with the project. Not that hard. Rusty
A link to a repair page follows. Once you link to that page, ensure that you scroll all the way to the bottom for a PDF entitled "Here is a PDF on ACP..." That should do it. Good luck with the project. Not that hard. Rusty
Tarp ?
Interesting that you would use a tarp, I think I read or was told, Hunter did not recommend the use of a tarp to cover your boat stating that heat build up could cause serious damage to the boat. Also if a cover was to be used, it should be of a light weight light color material such as used for parachute, what ever that is ? and that the cover should only be draped over it and not tied tightly down to allow air flow. Although my boat is stored under a carport, I would like to cover it with a soft light breathable material just to keep the dust and debris out of it, sure gets dirty fast. So far no cracks or problems with my H170 (2004)
Interesting that you would use a tarp, I think I read or was told, Hunter did not recommend the use of a tarp to cover your boat stating that heat build up could cause serious damage to the boat. Also if a cover was to be used, it should be of a light weight light color material such as used for parachute, what ever that is ? and that the cover should only be draped over it and not tied tightly down to allow air flow. Although my boat is stored under a carport, I would like to cover it with a soft light breathable material just to keep the dust and debris out of it, sure gets dirty fast. So far no cracks or problems with my H170 (2004)
Mine is tarped too
I keep mine covered when ever I am not sailing. The tarp I use is a 17oz cotton. It is tan. During the Summer, when it is not being used, it is on a trailer and exposed to the sun all day (under the tarp of course). No problems yet. The weight of it reduces flapping, but if it wasn't tied, I am sure that high winds that are common here would blow the tarp back expopsing part of the boat. With that in mind, if parachute material was used, I would expect more damage from the cover whipping around and abrading the boat than from sun.
I keep mine covered when ever I am not sailing. The tarp I use is a 17oz cotton. It is tan. During the Summer, when it is not being used, it is on a trailer and exposed to the sun all day (under the tarp of course). No problems yet. The weight of it reduces flapping, but if it wasn't tied, I am sure that high winds that are common here would blow the tarp back expopsing part of the boat. With that in mind, if parachute material was used, I would expect more damage from the cover whipping around and abrading the boat than from sun.
Cold related or Heat related ?
Jeff, This must have been a shock to discover, how was the boat stored, covered, garaged, out in the open ? how old is the boat ? any prior cracks ? My concern now would be the integrity of the structural aspect of the boat, surface cracks are one thing, the deep splitting of the material is something else. Waranty ? Glenn ps, show us some after shots of your repair work
Jeff, This must have been a shock to discover, how was the boat stored, covered, garaged, out in the open ? how old is the boat ? any prior cracks ? My concern now would be the integrity of the structural aspect of the boat, surface cracks are one thing, the deep splitting of the material is something else. Waranty ? Glenn ps, show us some after shots of your repair work
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