Hurricane Mathew put my boat on the hard.. What do I do?

[Maine Sail]

If it should happen I have to salvage the boat, it's not going to cost anyone anything, except for me my boat.. If it should happen, then I simply cut it up and haul it away piece by piece.. I don't seen how this is unfair or at the expense of others - It's not.
I wasn't required to get insurance, and I didn't.. but if I had tried, I probably would have had a very difficult time finding an agent willing to insure a 45 year old boat.
Or so I highly suspect.

And what if fuel leaked and contaminated the marsh? Now the EPA & State are involved and costs would be HUGE... What if you had hit a 200K boat, or multiple boats, what if you had destroyed someones $60,000 pier/dock? Boating without at least liability insurance is simply foolish, required or not.

Here is a prime example of how it can hurt..

About six years ago a customer of mine had his boat hit in a mooring field, by a boat that broke free, to the tune of $13,000 in damages. The guy who's boat hit him had no insurance and he also had an non-compliant and uninspected mooring (requirement) that did not meeting local mooring laws.

The customer of mine who was hit was on the line for his hull deductible, which cost him $2500.00. His insurer then went after the owner who hit him for their incurred costs.The owner also took him to small claims court for the $2500.00. I know the owner was awarded his $2500.00 but I don't know the outcome of the insurer going after the guy for their money. That same boat did damage to a total of five boats that day and I would assume other owners also took the guy to court for damages.

A wonky mooring system and no insurance is ripe for potentially incurring huge costs to you. Costs which can be avoided by simply buying a liability only policy.

 

[End80]

Ok.. Points well made. (however there was no fuel or oil spills, I only have an 9.9 outboard and there was no gas on the boat at all). When I have my boat recovered I'll look into liability and see if I can get it...
But really, If a hurricane took my boat and threw it into a house, or dock, or another boat.. Would I really be liable for that?
I'm not law savvy, but would that not be considered an act of god?'

When it comes to all the boats at the marina breaking loose in a hurricane and ramming other boats, are each of the owners then responsible for paying damage to each others boats??

The docks that got destroyed by the hurricane and threw wood through a neighbors window.. Is the owner of the dock responsible to pay the damages to his next door neighbor?

I don't comprehend how an individual can be responsible for damages done by a forceful mother nature.

 

[Justin_NSA]

Great posts. It's about liability, not personal loss.
I hope you can get it moved soon! Even if you damage it in the process, it will be less costly for you.

 

[JohnVTX]

Ok.. Points well made. (however there was no fuel or oil spills, I only have an 9.9 outboard and there was no gas on the boat at all). When I have my boat recovered I'll look into liability and see if I can get it...
But really, If a hurricane took my boat and threw it into a house, or dock, or another boat.. Would I really be liable for that?
I'm not law savvy, but would that not be considered an act of god?'

When it comes to all the boats at the marina breaking loose in a hurricane and ramming other boats, are each of the owners then responsible for paying damage to each others boats??

The docks that got destroyed by the hurricane and threw wood through a neighbors window.. Is the owner of the dock responsible to pay the damages to his next door neighbor?

I don't comprehend how an individual can be responsible for damages done by a forceful mother nature.

And your thoughts if it was your boat or house that was damaged by another?????????

 

[dlochner]

I don't comprehend how an individual can be responsible for damages done by a forceful mother nature.

The logic flows something like this. You are responsible for your property (your boat) and you are responsible for properly securing your boat at dock, mooring, or on the hard. If you boat breaks loose and causes damage during a storm then you are responsible because you did not adequately secure your boat and it caused damage to someone else's property.

For an older boat like the Grampian, adding it to a homeowner's policy is likely the least expensive way to deal with the liability issue. My HO policy will cover any boat up to about $1000 in value for no extra charge.

 

[End80]

If a hurricane took the mast off of someone's sailboat and impaled through my boat, I would not for a second feel like the owner was responsible for it happening, nor responsible to pay for the damages.

It is being implied in this discussion that damage done in a hurricane is the responsibility of the owner of the property that the hurricane used to cause the damage..
It's like saying the bullet itself is responsible for shooting the victim, and not the one (hurricane) who actually shot the gun.
I own the bullet, so it's my fault.
Perhaps I am wrong for not having insurance, and I will get it when all this is done. But insurance aside, how is any individual responsible for an act of mother nature?

But I think we're talking two different things.
Your points are that it is irresponsible to not have insurance, and I suppose you're right.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Your argument that God caused this problem doesn't work nor is it a defense to liability. Although you might bring a third party liability suit against Him, I doubt you would be successful....

It's your boat. You are responsible for any and all damages it causes/caused. That is why most people have insurance. To protect themselves, not others. You rolled the dice and unfortunately lost.

 

[dlochner]

If a hurricane took the mast off of someone's sailboat and impaled through my boat, I would not for a second feel like the owner was responsible for it happening, nor responsible to pay for the damages.

It is being implied in this discussion that damage done in a hurricane is the responsibility of the owner of the property that the hurricane used to cause the damage..
It's like saying the bullet itself is responsible for shooting the victim, and not the one (hurricane) who actually shot the gun.
I own the bullet, so it's my fault.
Perhaps I am wrong for not having insurance, and I will get it when all this is done. But insurance aside, how is any individual responsible for an act of mother nature?

But I think we're talking two different things.
Your points are that it is irresponsible to not have insurance, and I suppose you're right.

These discussions always end up in a million what ifs, that often confuse the underlying principles. Seldom are events as cut and dry as we would like them to be. The underlying questions are who is responsible for what damage and was anyone involved negligent and if so, to what degree was there negligence?

A better analogy than a bullet is a dog bite. If you have taken prudent actions to control your dog, such as keeping it in a fenced in yard or secured on a leash and it bites me then the level of your responsibility is less than if you just let your dog run free. Lawyers just love to have those discussions!

Similarly, if you have been prudent in securing your boat and taking reasonable and available precautions to protect your boat and to protect other boats, then your level of responsibility is likely less, you may still have some, but it shouldn't be the same as if you did nothing or were grossly negligent.

With liability insurance the insurance company pays the attorneys to sort it all out, those bills don't come out of your pocket.

 

[capta]

At some point you are going to have to remove that boat from it's present position. So why not do it right and still have the boat to play with?
What you need is a 'spud barge', you know, the ones you see driving pilings and working around the waterfronts. They have four long metal pilings, one on each corner, that they use to anchor the barge when working.
So a tug brings the barge to the appropriate place and it sinks it's pilings in the muck below it and someone takes a wire or line to your boat and then it's just a matter of brute force with a winch or windlass at the highest tide of the month.
I don't see you cutting it up and hauling away pieces in a marsh. Sounds like that could become a real dangerous situation with all the creatures that live in there and the quicksand like muck you'd have to work and travel in.
At any rate, if you are really lucky the SC environmental folks won't catch wind of your operation before you get the boat removed or it could end up costing really big money for fines and permits to move the boat. You might want to get moving while they are occupied with the storm clean up.

 

[Gunni]

Good idea Capta, however you are talking about mobilizing some big-time commercial operator into the situation and they will likely need a permit and notices to obstruct the channel. And their insurers undoubtedly require they be in total regulatory compliance. SeaTow and TowBoat both have some pretty good skills where they gang towboats together to get the required power and they tend to just be "git'r done" guys.

 

[marke14]

Sorry to hear about your hurricane troubles, End. I hope you are able to find a suitable outcome that preserves the marsh and your boat.

I feel like the forum has dogpiled on you for your lack of liability insurance. And I don't think you'll see a lot of people arguing against the fact that maintaining liability insurance is prudent for boaters. But isn't the dead horse beaten enough by this point?

For those of you up in arms about his lack of insurance, I think your point has been made. I tend to look at it this way: if he really wanted to be a d**k about it, he could have said, "well sh*t, the hurricane did this to my $1,000-valued boat," assuming he took the motor away, "to hell with it - it's on public land, eventually someone else will do something about it." It seems to me that he is reaching out to the sailing community via this forum to ask for ideas on how to remedy the problem. Not sure how the continued belaboring of the "you should've had liability insurance" is helping to get that boat floated again.

I'll take my flames offline. As you were, SBO.

 

[rgranger]

.......but this Friday and Saturday will be around 8.5ft, and then Sunday thru Wednesday will be 9ft+.....

So before this weekend gets here... you should run a long anchor line out... and skeg a sturdy anchor out far towards the open water..... and really crank down on the line and put as much tension on it as you can. the extra 4' of water might be enough to float your boat.... or at least mostly float you boat.

I wish you the best of luck... on the bright side ... you are past the peak mosquito and green head season...

 

[kito]

Just throwing this out there but was your area declared a disaster area? Would you not get help from FEMA? I know a heavy lift helicopter could easily pick up that 5000 lb boat and drop it in deep water for you.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Just throwing this out there but was your area declared a disaster area? Would you not get help from FEMA? I know a heavy lift helicopter could easily pick up that 5000 lb boat and drop it in deep water for you.

This may be thought of as crass but I really hate to see my tax dollars spent on something which can only be viewed as as economic benefit to one person.

 

[Roland5048]

Me thinks End80 has been beat up enough. This isn't helping him with his situation. Discussions on insurance would best be held in a separate thread where not just one person is being picked on. Just MHO.

 

[MrBill_FLL]

I had a friend pay over $5k to DERM in Fla keys for running a open fish into some grass flats in the keys, got stuck and had to call sea tow. sea grass restoration is not cheap.... college kids come out and plant new grass by hand, in the tracks they created. DERM doesn't play, environment police... in a protected habitat...

you could get hit for damages, but IMHO, enforcement is usually lax in cases like this, since there is no fuel, and its small, if you do your best to mitigate damages and get it out pronto.

I'm thinking about 2 or 3, 6" pvc pipes with caps. cinch straps around keel, pulling keel 1st, with the pvc length wise to boat waterline, under the keel, and strapped to both sides of mast. drag boat by keel and the pvc will be forced against hull, help lift and cushion against rocks or debris... puts some large fenders on the corners in case it decides to sink once you get it out..


GL!

 

[Suspicious Behavior]

Air Boat. ? Can they get in there ?

 

[Suspicious Behavior]

Can't see a penalty from the local government for actions committed by a hurricane.

 

[BigEasy]

Definitely try to get your plan together and give it a go with the 9 ft tide. You might want to talk to a diving salvage company to give you a hand. These are usually small business guys that do underwater repairs, hull cleaning, and occasionally have to float a sunken boat. They can provide you with air bags that can be firmly attached to the hull to give it some buoyancy that will enable the boat to be drug out of the marsh with a little horsepower. 9 ft tide and air bags just might do the trick.
I wouldn't worry about the government types. I bet that there are hundred of boats that are beached and sunk all along the coast. As you mentioned, there shouldn't be any environmental damages as you only had an outboard motor with little to no fuel on board. They aren't out to prosecute you in a natural disaster such as Mathew; they just want to get the boat out of marsh and help you in the process if they can. I
Finally, wouldn't be too critical about tax dollars spent after natural disasters. FEMA provides millions upon millions of dollars to help communities all over the country after natural disasters. Some body has to provide assistance as the local communities lack the financial resources to provide cleanup, disposal of tons of refuse, get local governments up and running again, and yes pulling sunken boats out of waterways, etc. You never know when your community may be devastated from a hurricane, tornado, mud slide, earthquake, forest fire, etc. Nice to know that the Fed, ie., taxpayers are there to lend a helping hand.

 

[Joe Blizzard]

Another passing thought was to remove the keel bolts and keel

If you believe the Internet, that keel weighs a ton. Literally. Probably not something you'd want to try to carry out of a swamp. I kind of like the flotation idea, but I think getting rigid floats where you want them and keeping them there would be difficult. Some kind of inflatable something might be better. Or maybe a whole lot of pool noodles.